we are in over our heads,and i need some ideas. plz help me

[theinfinity]

situation: my adventuring party and i joined a game where our DM asked us what level we wanted to start at, we chose 7, and whether or not we were from the particular land, we chose no. our second day there we go a mission to intercept and escort a small caravan to the city we are in. few days of travel and we will find it. so the next day, we get some horses and begin travel.

our party

avanti druid
human dragon fire adept
human wizard/cleric + 1 level of mystic thurge
frenzied burzerker


our last night before we meet the remains of the caravan a group of dire boars attack, none of our party died, and they were not alone and we did not see whatever it was. that unidentified intruder walked into the tent where our wizard was sleeping and took all his possessions(book and all), surprisingly did not kill the wizard. the wizard sleep thru the battle, he seemed fine when the barbarian checked on him but in the morning we were suprised.
we continued on(not being able to find tracks of the perpetrator) and found the caravan highjacked, well the remnants of what was the caravan.
threw a lore variant that our wizard/cleric had taken we had figured out that there was an abandoned keep a few miles away that a group of bandits could be using for a hide out. as we trudged threw the forest the druid used her wild shape and became a bird and flew ahead to scout the keep, found that it wasn't abandoned, and came back to tell us what she saw. it is well fortified ha quiet a bit of people and i believe we are about to walk into a party wipe.

the keeps walls are wood, it is fairly big, i is near a hill with a guard tower on it, the forest, approximately 100 feet around the area of the wall has been cleared out, a river surrounds most of it, and only 1 bridge is their for us to cross.

my question, and i am sorry for the long narrative : do you have any ideas for taking this keep, we will not back down mainly because our druid and barbarian in game will not retreat(me being the barbarian)

by the way spelling and format are weird due to this being my first thread ever :smallsmile:

[Renen]

Well... id say if you have a good DM, you should be ok as long as you do it carefully. By taking the book, he basically forces you to go get it, and since the cleric/wizard now lost hald their power and is mostly useless (because theurge is bad, and even worse w/o one of the sides), I doubt he would make it mega hard for you to get his class features back.

[theinfinity]

yeah true, sadly we weren't targeted by the bandits it was a random encounter, and the DM mad a comment "this guy is gonna have money to be important later... that's funny"

[Renen]

Talk to him OOC and remind him that:
1) You cant NOT go there after the book
2) BECAUSE you dont have said book, the wizard is MUCH weaker and partys average level effectively dropped abit.

Just make sure he keeps those in mind.

[theinfinity]

thank you :smallsmile:

[Twilightwyrm]

One thing that may be helpful: because the Druid is (presumably) 7th level, they have access to the Scry spell. They can use this on the Wizard's spellbook to both identify where it is and, hopefully, identify the person who stole it. Now then, as for a Plan: Since the fort is primarily wood and the Bandits have been generous enough to clear the forest out 100ft around it (seriously, you are going to be taking advantage of this), your druid can turn into a small animal, and Flame Strike has a casting range of 170ft (for this Druid since, again, they are presumably 7th level), your Druid can, if you wish to take the direct approach, begin your assault the night before by blasting holes in the fort's walls from the safety of the tree line, in the form of a sparrow, or a racoon, or a boar if you are feeling cheeky. After you create one or two such holes, since an ambassador out to address the bandits (the dragonfire adept of whomever has the highest diplomacy/intimidate), and tell them that you mean them no further trouble, but one of theirs stole a book quite important to one of your companions, and you would dearly like it back. This representative should further tell them that, ever night that they do not comply, you will continue to blast holes in their fortress's walls. So really they have a choice to make: do their want a simple book of little to no value to them, or do they want an (mostly) intact fortress from which to stage their raids? Your Druid should, while this is going on, disguise them self as a small, inoffensive animal nearby, and be ready to cast flame strike if negotiations look like they may turn sour. Your wizard can, further, stand back at the tree line, ready to cast Calm Emotions if things start to look tense (a nice additional effect to Calm Emotions is that is prevents a creature from taking offensive action, so long as they are not attacked), or Hold Person if violence breaks out (these should both have a range of 120ft-130ft for the Wizard). If you are opting for the Intimidation route, you might consider Flamestriking/Hold Personing one/some of the bandits parts anyways, and kindly let them to know that you can strike them from far away should they think of attempting some kind of ambush instead of returning the book post haste. Finally, the Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker should be ready with his Composite Longbow (if he doesn't have one, why not?) to start shooting men off the parapets or attacking bandits if things go sour (preferably hidden at the top of a tall tree nearby). Now, if everything goes according to plan, the Bandits will turn on whomever stole the Wizard's book, and do your work for you. If they elect not to hand it over the first night, start the bombardment. If they simply guard the walls, have the barbarian launch arrows from the tree line to snipe off bandits, and have the Druid cast Flamestrike to blows holes in the wall, as promised. If they send out a force to retaliate, simply Flamestrike/Hold Person/Shoot them until they get the message, are all dead, or get close enough to be a danger, in which case you then fade back into the shadows of the forest. If they follow you into the woods, you can set your own choke point and kill them off (keep one alive to send back with a message). If this continues for more than one night, try switching up the angle of your attack, so they can never feel safe. After enough nights of this the fortress will either be a pile of smoldering rubble and corpses which your can ransack to your heart's content, or they will deliver you the spellbook, if you are lucky, with the head of the one who stole it. And unless your DM is the type to get sore about the party not doing exactly what he wanted them to, everyone will be happy. Everyone will have participated, the party will have engaged with the challenge the DM faced them with and came out on top through clever tactics, and wizard will feel empowered through cowing those that would dare steal from them, and you will have walked away no worse for wear. Perhaps if you are lucky, the Bandits will spread word of the horror you inflicted upon them, and your party will gain some fame/notoriety, and it is always nice to be acknowledged for your achievements.

[Arbane]

Any way to drop the berzerker in? He can just rampage until everyone's dead.

[Crake]

One thing that may be helpful: because the Druid is (presumably) 7th level, they have access to the Scry spell. They can use this on the Wizard's spellbook to both identify where it is and, hopefully, identify the person who stole it.

Scry must target a creature, not an object, so that's not a possibility.

That said, honestly, a herd of dire boars attacks in the night and the wizard DOESN'T wake up? The DC for a battle is -10. You get -10 to listen for being asleep, meaning the effective DC is 0. So unless the wizard had 7 or less wisdom and rolled a 1 every time, there's no way he didn't wake up to that. Like, seriously, that's just rediculous. As for why someone would steal a wizard's spellbook and NOT kill the wizard, that's just unfathomable. "Oh, here's a spellbook and a sleeping wizard... well, I know that the wizard is going to come after this spellbook, so I'd best kill him so that doesn't happen". You would have to be mentally retarded to do anything else, and I hate it when DMs make NPCs do stupid things like that. If he was gonna be enough of a **** to fiat the wizard asleep during a raging battle, and then steal his spellbook "because reasons" (how did the thief know to look through his stuff specifically for the spellbook? Presumably the battle didn't go on for too long, so he couldn't have had that much time to go ruffling through all the wizards things)


Ok, I'm gonna have to stop myself there, because I'm just rambling and raging. Might want to bring a few of those points up with your DM, and ask him face to face if he was just being a **** about it.

[Auron3991]

Scry must target a creature, not an object, so that's not a possibility.

That said, honestly, a herd of dire boars attacks in the night and the wizard DOESN'T wake up? The DC for a battle is -10. You get -10 to listen for being asleep, meaning the effective DC is 0. So unless the wizard had 7 or less wisdom and rolled a 1 every time, there's no way he didn't wake up to that. Like, seriously, that's just rediculous. As for why someone would steal a wizard's spellbook and NOT kill the wizard, that's just unfathomable. "Oh, here's a spellbook and a sleeping wizard... well, I know that the wizard is going to come after this spellbook, so I'd best kill him so that doesn't happen". You would have to be mentally retarded to do anything else, and I hate it when DMs make NPCs do stupid things like that. If he was gonna be enough of a **** to fiat the wizard asleep during a raging battle, and then steal his spellbook "because reasons" (how did the thief know to look through his stuff specifically for the spellbook? Presumably the battle didn't go on for too long, so he couldn't have had that much time to go ruffling through all the wizards things)


Ok, I'm gonna have to stop myself there, because I'm just rambling and raging. Might want to bring a few of those points up with your DM, and ask him face to face if he was just being a **** about it.


Actually, he said the thief made off with all of the wizards possessions. Probably didn't even realize there was a spellbook in there and was more worried about sneaking away before the crazy berserker noticed and started wailing on him. As far as the battle thing goes, perhaps the wizard had cast something to reduce noise or had something as simple as earplugs (he has to make sure he gets that rest).


As for the fort, as it's made from wood, I personally would have the druid wild shape into something that can dig, dig into the compound, and light it on fire. Pick them off like flies if they run or storm the gate while they try to put the fire out, all while druid grabs the spellbook and magic items (only important things anyway) and slips out to regroup with the party. Always remember, one answer to anything flammable is to burn it

[Twilightwyrm]

Actually, he said the thief made off with all of the wizards possessions. Probably didn't even realize there was a spellbook in there and was more worried about sneaking away before the crazy berserker noticed and started wailing on him. As far as the battle thing goes, perhaps the wizard had cast something to reduce noise or had something as simple as earplugs (he has to make sure he gets that rest).


As for the fort, as it's made from wood, I personally would have the druid wild shape into something that can dig, dig into the compound, and light it on fire. Pick them off like flies if they run or storm the gate while they try to put the fire out, all while druid grabs the spellbook and magic items (only important things anyway) and slips out to regroup with the party. Always remember, one answer to anything flammable is to burn it

While this is a possibility to consider, it seems needlessly bloody, and unless the bandits keep a large amount of flammable objects on hand, not likely to work. Wooden forts, despite being wooden, don't burn to the ground the moment a fire starts spreading (for the same reason there are trees left standing after a wildfire), and the Druid, even if they can borrow, will not know where they will be popping up. Combine this with doing so into enemy territory, without backup, and you have a very dangerous gamble indeed. Further, it conforms to what the DM expects (an outright assault on the fort), while simultaneously leaving your party in the tactically disadvantageous position said tactic entails. Plus, more of their treasure is lightly t be destroyed in an outright fire than in a systematic dis-assembly from the outside. Hence why I favor the coercion tactic: it is tactically sound, utilizes all party members and faces the DM with something that he was not expecting, but will hopefully appreciate. But I suppose that is merely my preference, and I do concede the point about scrying. I suspect I got it confused with the 3.0 version.

[theinfinity]

thank you for all your ideas, and reasoning's, i got many idea's.
i'll agree that the DM did a **** move but we ended up foiling him at a later point, i did not think about scry, but then again i am a barbarian lol.

we failed in our attempt in attacking the fort, but made off with quite a bit of gold, our DM at a later point brought in a character that tried to do a mind effect on me (later told me DC 35) natural 20. im sure you know what happened after. lol.
our next goal is finding the book and other possessions.

thank you all.