Warlock Awakened Mind ability.

[Aramis Rhett]

Just wondering other people's opinions, but the Awakened Mind ability from the Great Old One doesn't give very specific information about its limitations. Throw some thoughts around folks.

[Aramis Rhett]

Things such as can the telepathy be used to read surface thoughts? If not, can it be used to read basic emotions? And does a conversation have to be one way, or can the person the warlock is speaking to respond? It's the little things that irritate me about the ability description.

[KhorashIronfist]

I am also playing an old one pact warlock and I have, after questioning my dm, been playing it by just assuming the ability description was exclusive rather than inclusive. That is to say, RAW, assuming that anything it does not mention is not allowed. As such, I have made no attempt to do it through any barrier which would block most magic (1 foot of stone, a thin sheet of lead etc). I have just assumed it would not work through such, which seems only reasonable.

I do interpret it, as does my dm, that it is two way communication, but the warlock of course has to begin the conversation. Actually I have been using it in a very similar manner as you mention there, portending the doom of our enemies telepathically to them for fun, or whispering eldritch and terrible things to scare them. A most convenient way to hide certain things from the party. I'm getting a lot of mileage from the ability, especially since I just took detect thoughts for my second level spell.

Speaking of which, I would think the existence of that spell, particularly on the bonus spell list for that pact, should make you assume the awakened mind ability does NOT allow you to read minds in any way. Think of it like a walkie talkie.

[ghost_warlock]

From what I understand, you basically have the Telepathy special ability listed in the Monster Manual.

As such, you can send messages to creatures without telepathy and they can respond, but they can't initiate telepathic messages without you contacting them first. You also have full control over when the conversation is terminated, so you can continue talking to them even if they're an unwilling recipient, so long as you stay within range and a barrier doesn't cut you off.

A creature that is telepathic in its own right can terminate the conversation, though there's nothing specifically preventing you from reinitiating the contact.

Using telepathy doesn't require an action but can't be used while you're incapacitated.

Telepathy doesn't work within the area of an antimagic field.

Edit: reading their thoughts is a completely different ability, for that you need the detect thoughts spell. With telepathy alone, you can only get from them what they specifically intend to tell you.

[Dalebert]

I was quite frustrated to learn that my DM and party have concluded that this is strictly one-way communication. I, on the other hand, would expect them to spell this out more clearly. By default, I interpret "communication" as two-way. I am inclined to treat it like a message spell in that respect, but without the whispering, much shorter range, and that it bypasses language barriers.

In any case, this has apparently already been hashed out thoroughly from before when I joined the game as another character dipped warlock and took it so I've left it at that. What threw me off was spending a couple of games thinking it was two-way, but that was apparently because I was essentially using the other telepath as a sort of go-between to the rest of the party as I was scouting and he was able to respond. So it was extra disappointing to have chosen the ability with a certain understanding and expectations that were later dashed. It's like that feeling when you buy a car that turns out to be a lemon.

I'll have to find ways to make it useful for other things. I'm thinking of things like stealthing by a guard and whispering in his head "Look out behind you!" to give the rogue a nice sneak attack or something, but honestly the very limited range seems to nip a lot of this. If that's the sort of thing they intended it to be useful for, I feel like they should have extended the range to maybe 60 feet.

[odigity]

I was quite frustrated to learn that my DM and party have concluded that this is strictly one-way communication. I, on the other hand, would expect them to spell this out more clearly. By default, I interpret "communication" as two-way. I am inclined to treat it like a message spell in that respect, but without the whispering, much shorter range, and that it bypasses language barriers.

It's not like I *wanted* it to be one-way. I grudingly had to admit that it's the more correct interpretation of RAW & RAI after carefully analyzing the text and discussing it with other people here on the forums. Search for "Awakened Mind", I'm sure the threads will come up.

I would love to be proven wrong.

[Dalebert]

It's not like I *wanted* it to be one-way. I grudingly had to admit that it's the more correct interpretation of RAW & RAI after carefully analyzing the text and discussing it with other people here on the forums. Search for "Awakened Mind", I'm sure the threads will come up.

Yeah, I figured that was the general conclusion here. If you just look at the text very literally, one can certainly choose to interpret it that strictly. Thing is, one is not inclined to do so unless you're really paying attention. I never thought that until you guys said essentially go read it very carefully. "Telepathy" and "communication" initially led me to interpret it as two-way and that's the conclusion you would expect people to come to from such terms which is why I'm surprised they didn't write one more sentence to clarify that if that's really their intent. And then I can't help but wonder how they intended one to make use of a one-way outward communication like that, particularly of such a short range. It seems so highly contextual.

It's almost like if you asked if you could drive my car to the store, and I said "sure". And then when you pulled back into my driveway, I said "What the Hell, man? I didn't say you could drive it back!"

[odigity]

Yeah, I figured that was the general conclusion here. If you just look at the text very literally, one can certainly choose to interpret it that strictly. Thing is, one is not inclined to do so unless you're really paying attention. I never thought that until you guys said essentially go read it very carefully. "Telepathy" and "communication" initially led me to interpret it as two-way and that's the conclusion you would expect people to come to from such terms which is why I'm surprised they didn't write one more sentence to clarify that if that's really their intent. And then I can't help but wonder how they intended one to make use of a one-way outward communication like that, particularly of such a short range. It seems so highly contextual.

It's almost like if you asked if you could drive my car to the store, and I said "sure". And then when you pulled back into my driveway, I said "What the Hell, man? I didn't say you could drive it back!"

I completely agree, and for the record, went through the exactly the same expierience of assuming 2-way and being surprised the first time someone said "uh, no" (after I had already built Enzo, btw).

Finding out Warlock Pact spells aren't automatically "known" but merely added to your class spell list also happened after I had already built Enzo.

In retrospect, starting Warlock 1 has hurt more than helped, unless you factor in the non-mechanical value of my origin story.

[Dalebert]

Finding out Warlock Pact spells aren't automatically "known" but merely added to your class spell list also happened after I had already built Enzo.

That one I just can't relate. There's only two sentences and one of them includes "let's you choose from an expanded list of spells" which quite plainly spells out that you don't get them automatically and that they use up your spells known slots.

[odigity]

That one I just can't relate. There's only two sentences and one of them includes "let's you choose from an expanded list of spells" which quite plainly spells out that you don't get them automatically and that they use up your spells known slots.

Because all the other examples of expanded spell list based on class path (Cleric Domains, Land Druid Circles, Paladin Oaths) all make the spell permanently prepared, castable all the time.

EDIT: And because Warlock already has the lowest spells known of any full caster (tied for last with Sorceror, at 15 known).

Yes, I'm aware Warlock is not a prepared caster, but still, it's an easy mistake to make if you're not carefully reading every sentence.

[KhorashIronfist]

Yes, I'm aware Warlock is not a prepared caster, but still, it's an easy mistake to make if you're not carefully reading every sentence.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but when reading rulebooks of any kind (not just for RPGs even) you probably should read every sentence very carefully. I would go so far as to say when reading anything whatsoever you should probably be paying close attention to every sentence of what you are reading.

[odigity]

I'm not trying to be a jerk but when reading rulebooks of any kind (not just for RPGs even) you probably should read every sentence very carefully. I would go so far as to say when reading anything whatsoever you should probably be paying close attention to every sentence of what you are reading.

I do, but it's impossible to retain every detail from one pass, especially the first pass before you start analyzing rules and combos and putting it together and trying it out in the field for real. I've read some sections a dozen times once I start using them.

This is really a lame angle of attack...

[Dalebert]

Sorry, it's just bringing it up actually watered down the point about Awakened Mind because that section is quite clear. It's just off-topic and not at all relevant to the question at hand.

[rollingForInit]

We went by the description of Telepathy from the MM, where it's stated that it has to be initiated from the user, but the one who receives messages can also choose to reply.

IIRC there's a tweet by some of the developers stating that they intending it be one-way but that two-way is a legit interpretation as well.

[CrusaderJoe]

Funny thought...

Monstrous race, spell, class feature, or whatever... That ave you this walkie talkie telepathy but others had to initiate the conversation...

I have never wished for a error in a D&D book before, I really wish they slipped up on the warlock and made it where others had to initiate the conversation...

[Thomasd851]

The way I and my DM see it is that it should be the way spesified by the MM, after all a powerful creature/entity who has the ability normally is giving you that ability. Compared to the Ghostwise halfling, who can only communicate to one creature at a time and with only known languages I think this level dependant and pact dependant ability should be as open as the one bestowing it (though with less range).

On a side note I was also annoyed by the pact spells not being automatically added, it's like here is a super strong entity giving you powers and they won't tell you how to use them or what you can do just give you the fuel source...I think warlocks should be stronger than clerics at least, (especially in the case of GOO) since most pacts have terms and conditions but most clerics are able to use the power as long as they pray and follow the general ideals of their diety. Though even if they rebel it's not like most gods will stop supplying, just get annoyed or might not even care. Pact making you need to constantly make sure you can live up to your deals and if you screw up you can lose it all as well as make a dangerous enemy.
Story wise most gods are to busy or disinterested, though many DMs will involve patrons if the warlock screws up enough...

[rhouck]

Holy thread necro!

For anyone that cares and finds this thread in the future, this question was answered in Sage Advice:


Does the warlock’s Awakened Mind feature allow twoway
telepathic communication? The feature is intended to
provide one-way communication. The warlock can use the
feature to speak telepathically to a creature, but the feature
doesn’t give that creature the ability to telepathically reply.
In contrast, the telepathy ability that some monsters have
(MM, 9) does make two-way communication possible.

http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SA_Compendium.pdf

[brainface]

I've... conveniently not told my dm about that. (Also, seriously, it's fairly infuriating that they intended "communication" to read as "one-way communication" as a matter of course.)

[Markoff Chainey]

My DM also interpreted it as one-way, but after a little bit of disappointment, I started to use it a lot to great success..

I used it together with performance to induce "inner voices", faked foreshading, planted dream-messages and stuff... it does not say anywhere that the other end of the ability knows where the message is coming from. Many priceless situations followed :-)

[LordFluffy]

My warlock used it to talk a half-ogre into betraying his goblin boss and become my henchman :)

[MaxWilson]

I've... conveniently not told my dm about that. (Also, seriously, it's fairly infuriating that they intended "communication" to read as "one-way communication" as a matter of course.)

I know about it, but I ignore it at my table. My attitude is, "If that is what you intended then you pretty well should have written it that way, shouldn't you? You had your chance at a mulligan with the PHB errata. Too late now, suckers!"

Seriously, one-way short-range telepathy is idiotic compared to free-temp-HP-on-kill.

[Knaight]

Seriously, one-way short-range telepathy is idiotic compared to free-temp-HP-on-kill.

It depends on the game. If you actually stick to the three pillars that 5e is nominally designed for, ignoring how it's more like the one gigantic column and two thin poles, they're comparably useful abilities.

[MaxWilson]

It depends on the game. If you actually stick to the three pillars that 5e is nominally designed for, ignoring how it's more like the one gigantic column and two thin poles, they're comparably useful abilities.

I'm afraid I can't agree. In a three-pillar game, two-way telepathy is pretty fun... but one-way telepathy is still useless. All the things you'd want to use telepathy for rely on communication, not monologues.

Edit: I suppose you could combine it with Comprehend Languages, and ask the other party to write down its responses to your telepathic questions. So, not entirely useless, but finicky and lame compared to what you first think when you read in the PHB that you can "communicate telepathically."

[Knaight]

I'm afraid I can't agree. In a three-pillar game, two-way telepathy is pretty fun... but one-way telepathy is still useless. All the things you'd want to use telepathy for rely on communication, not monologues.

There are a lot of uses for one way telepathy. Maybe you need to feed someone lines while making it appear to be from them. Maybe you're monitoring a situation from above and are informing those in the trenches about what's going on. Maybe you're trying to convince someone that they have voices in their head and should thus doubt their own judgment. There are a lot of uses for it, even if the one way limitation was extremely poorly communicated in the text.

[MaxWilson]

There are a lot of uses for one way telepathy. Maybe you need to feed someone lines while making it appear to be from them. Maybe you're monitoring a situation from above and are informing those in the trenches about what's going on. Maybe you're trying to convince someone that they have voices in their head and should thus doubt their own judgment. There are a lot of uses for it, even if the one way limitation was extremely poorly communicated in the text.

Monitoring from above would require more than 30' range--you might as well just shout. Or even simply talk. Feeding someone lines could just as easily be done with cue cards, or Disguise Self to impersonate them. Voices in your head is beyond the power of Awakened Mind--you can't impersonate someone's own thoughts.

I mean, you could let it do so, as a DM, but if you're going to be permissive, why not be permissive about following the plain meaning of the PHB text? Just let them communicate with people telepathically within 30' range instead of gimping the ability and then boosting it with impersonation capability.

Awakened Mind works great as written, as an ability for "you're never locked out of verbal conversations no matter what languages you know." The DM still has to be one who makes languages and socialization matter, instead of just combat, but it becomes a fun and useful ability somewhat better than ritual access to Comprehend Languages. Why would you want to nerf that capability?

[Knaight]

Awakened Mind works great as written, as an ability for "you're never locked out of verbal conversations no matter what languages you know." The DM still has to be one who makes languages and socialization matter, instead of just combat, but it becomes a fun and useful ability somewhat better than ritual access to Comprehend Languages. Why would you want to nerf that capability?

I probably wouldn't nerf the capability, I'm just saying that it remains useful even nerfed.

[RickAllison]

Monitoring from above would require more than 30' range--you might as well just shout. Or even simply talk. Feeding someone lines could just as easily be done with cue cards, or Disguise Self to impersonate them. Voices in your head is beyond the power of Awakened Mind--you can't impersonate someone's own thoughts.

I mean, you could let it do so, as a DM, but if you're going to be permissive, why not be permissive about following the plain meaning of the PHB text? Just let them communicate with people telepathically within 30' range instead of gimping the ability and then boosting it with impersonation capability.

Awakened Mind works great as written, as an ability for "you're never locked out of verbal conversations no matter what languages you know." The DM still has to be one who makes languages and socialization matter, instead of just combat, but it becomes a fun and useful ability somewhat better than ritual access to Comprehend Languages. Why would you want to nerf that capability?

Can this ability be used with the Swashbuckler's Panache? I would think it should be able to, and it would be a potent combination because it circumvents the normal need to share a language. Plus, the swashbuckler doesn't really care if the person wants to talk, he just likes to hear himself :smallwink:

[Segev]

Combine Awakened Mind and comprehend languages, and you can, at least, get the "communicate regardless of language barriers" thing going. But that does take a spell known slot.

[MaxWilson]

Can this ability be used with the Swashbuckler's Panache? I would think it should be able to, and it would be a potent combination because it circumvents the normal need to share a language. Plus, the swashbuckler doesn't really care if the person wants to talk, he just likes to hear himself :smallwink:

My memory of Swashbuckler's Panache is that it explicitly says you need to share a language, so by RAW I think they do not combine. Likewise, you can't use Panache on someone who understands you only due to Tongue of the Moon or Comprehend Languages.

If you want an in-game explanation, perhaps the Swashbuckler incorporates wordplay and other language-specific quips into his barbs, and that doesn't translate telepathically.

[coredump]

First, the ability lets "you" communicate with a creature. It says nothing about a creature being able to communicate with you. As written it is one-way. (and as verified by JC)

Second, it is quite powerful. I don't care about a few THP on a kill, I care that my Suggestion Spell or Command** spell or Charm Person spell will now work on that Stone Giant, even though I don't speak Giant.

I have also used it to taunt people into attacking me while AoA is going.

There are also tons of times where it has been valuable to share info with party members, or otherwise 'say' something so that no one knows.



**My warlock has a Staff