Need help saving my soul from Balor

[herculesftw]

In a recent campaign session my malconvoker was essentially killed near a balor, to which the dm decided to stop time and 'make a deal' I could be brought back with no real chance of saving my soul, or, I could get the balor 5 souls of 'worth' thereby saving my soul. Normally an act this high in evil such as damning someone to save your own skin would damn the person anyways but given my class, and if I only target evil people, I still see a way of coming out of this unscathed in the alignment area. I agreed to the 5 soul deal, and then the balor magically conjured 5 rings on my right hand, each representing a soul that I needed to take for the balor. I have to get 5(preferably evil) souls of worth to accept damnation willingly, with no real manipulation, ie touch of idiocy multiple times to make someone dumb enough to accept. I thought maybe if I planar binded a harvester devil for a short period I could ask it for help regarding ways to get people to accept this kind of fate. Their the masters of this kind of thing, and I would ask it if there was a way I could screw this balor over, giving the deal to a devil instead, perhaps this harvester devil. Devils hate demons and this would end with it being promoted most likely but I'm not sure.

Anyways, can anyone think of some binding ideas/ways I can get these rings off me?

[Xelbiuj]

I still see a way of coming out of this unscathed in the alignment area.

Uh, I'm going to say you probably can't unless you simply refuse the deal.
Actively seeking to kill even evil people to send their souls to hell, is a pretty bad thing.
It ends any chance at redemption, evil isn't necessarily an immediate threat, it's almost certainly not lawful if you aren't under a theocracy, etc . . . you can't really justify it.
it's basically a chaotic evil act, good job on the balor. That probably should have tipped you off.

Maybe if you harvest people that you had to kill anyways but you're still serving and empowering a freaking balor.

edit:
Go to the Abyss and kill him, problem solved.

[StoneCipher]

Well given that this is a homebrewed scenario, it will be difficult to come up with something concrete, so hopefully your DM welcomes creativity.

Keep in mind that even trapping evil souls and selling them to a demon is still skating on the line of evil. To kill someone evil is one thing. To knowingly and willingly resign their soul to a fate worse than death is much different.

Secondly, any devil would love to help you...for the price of your soul or other souls. I can't see any way a devil would willingly offer help unless they were ludicrously bored or if you showed up with gobs and gobs of magic items to pay him in tribute.

Thirdly, you can't trust a demon anyways. You screwed yourself by not passing on. A devil will usually keep his word on this sort of thing. A demon could be just using you to collect some souls for him before he collects yours.

I would appeal to a good deity for salvation and fast. Apologize for your transgressions and offer them to deal out whatever punishment they see fit in exchange for them cutting this deal with a demon and freeing your soul. Even if it means killing you.

Alternatively, unless you didn't post it, the demon didn't say how long you had to take the souls, so you could assume you could take your whole life to do this task. In this case, you can either hope the demon is killed while he resides in the abyss or that when you meet him next, you're able to kill him.

But if you're looking to just get the rings off, you could always just try to have someone disjunct them. I doubt they are relics, so a powerful wizard could probably do it for you. If the DM won't allow disjunction to work, then I don't know what will.

[Tohsaka Rin]

First of all, OP, please learn to more liberally use the enter key. A wall of text always bothers my eyes.

*Clears throat.* That said, how about Lich souls? It's not like they're chomping at the bit for redemption.

[Red Fel]

I'm going with Xel and Stone on this one. Making deals with Evil Outsiders is generally considered pretty Evil. Choosing to sacrifice others to save your own skin is generally considered pretty Evil. Doing stuff that involves trading or destroying souls, even Evil ones, is generally pretty Evil.

The only alignment-safe out was taking death over a trade. So let's start from that point - if you made that bargain, willingly, you're definitely no longer Good. If you made that bargain with the intent to perform on your side, you're pretty close to Evil, if not Evil already.

Worse than that, you're a Malconvoker. That means Evil Outsiders already hate your guts, and the Powers That Be on the Good side of the spectrum profoundly mistrust you. You were playing with fire (here, fire = Evil Outsiders) and you got burned, bad.

By all rights, the character is up in smoke. But as Stone mentioned, this is a homebrewed scenario - with the Balor offering you an extra life - so you should be able to creatively homebrew your way around it.

My suggestion? You go immediately to the followers of a CG deity - G because you want the good guys on your side, and C because L won't let you break a contract - and beg for assistance. If they take issue with your whole Malconvoker angle, offer to change your ways. That'll get their attention. Pick a spellcasting PrC for which you qualify, foreswear all future deliberate contact with Evil Outsiders, swap out Malconvoker levels. If that won't get the good guys to take pity on you, nothing will. Alternatively, offer to trade your bargain for a Geas/Quest.

Basically, at this point, you're owned. If you're smart, though, you can choose a new owner.

[Pyon]

Honestly? Go the evil route it's fun.

By the way what I am about to say is freakin' evil but you know: all in the sake of roleplaying, I'm not a psychopath.

Open up a shop to help out like poor people or recovering alcoholics or something. Or maybe ex prisoners. Then imprison them, torture them until they willingly chose damnation. Be evil, it's fun!

Please don't kill me I'm not evil myself I swear :c

[Tohsaka Rin]

Coercing someone into something automatically means it's not a willing act.

[atemu1234]

If you really need to preserve your alignment, get souls that are Lawful Evil. That way, they are "of worth" (read:not-normally-allowed-in-hell). That way, you get life. They get death. It is as it should be.

[Brookshw]

What claim to your soul would the balor have had exactly? Dying near one generally isn't enough but maybe I overlooked something.

[StoneCipher]

What claim to your soul would the balor have had exactly? Dying near one generally isn't enough but maybe I overlooked something.

It was a DM decision and isn't part of standard death rules.

[the_david]

What claim to your soul would the balor have had exactly? Dying near one generally isn't enough but maybe I overlooked something.

None. The Balor merely offered to raise the Malconvoker in exchange for either his own soul, or five souls of worth.

Now the OP seems to be forgetting the "of worth" part, which generally means innocent. Or in other words not-evil.

I'd have used the Contract Devil from Pathfinder myself. Balors don't seem to be the kind of fiends that would go for 1 or 5 souls. They've got bigger plans.

[Xelbiuj]

What claim to your soul would the balor have had exactly? Dying near one generally isn't enough but maybe I overlooked something.

I think the balor was just offering to spare his life, not that he claim any specific claim to his soul originally. (Unless he had Trap the soul, etc)

[Andezzar]

What can the Balor do against good old resurrection? While your soul can go to hell after death, he cannot AFAIK prevent you from accepting the call back to your body. So kill yourself and have a teammate raise you immediately afterwards. The balor has gotten your soul and you are back in play (with one lost level).

[StoneCipher]

What can the Balor do against good old resurrection? While your soul can go to hell after death, he cannot AFAIK prevent you from accepting the call back to your body. So kill yourself and have a teammate raise you immediately afterwards. The balor has gotten your soul and you are back in play (with one lost level).

Oh believe me, there are plenty of things the Balor can do against it. Like take the person BODY and soul to the abyss. Or cast Soul Bind....or...well...like I said...PLENTY. Especially when this scenario is not a standard by-the-book scenario and the DM is adding a little bit of flare to a situation.

[Andezzar]

Well yeah, if the DM uses non-standard stuff we cannot give advice countering that, but both taking the body and casting soul bind require the balor to be near the corpse. If the balor is near, send him to hell and kill him there.

[StoneCipher]

Well yeah, if the DM uses non-standard stuff we cannot give advice countering that, but both taking the body and casting soul bind require the balor to be near the corpse. If the balor is near, send him to hell and kill him there.

That may in itself be the problem though. He never mentioned his level so he may not be able to beat the Balor yet.

[atemu1234]

None. The Balor merely offered to raise the Malconvoker in exchange for either his own soul, or five souls of worth.

Now the OP seems to be forgetting the "of worth" part, which generally means innocent. Or in other words not-evil.

I'd have used the Contract Devil from Pathfinder myself. Balors don't seem to be the kind of fiends that would go for 1 or 5 souls. They've got bigger plans.

No, that means, "of value". As in, that wouldn't be in hell otherwise and can provide energy. Therein, killing five LE beings and sending them to the abyss would technically still be "of value" to the abyss.

[Andezzar]

That may in itself be the problem though. He never mentioned his level so he may not be able to beat the Balor yet.I'm not seeing a time limit on the souls in the OP. So he could just level up until the balor is beatable.

[Honest Tiefling]

The Balor isn't going to honor the deal. Doing so is pretty evil, so I wouldn't really bother trying to use that route and NOT be evil. I'd bring him five souls of the most holy the most righteous, the most bad-*** paladins and clerics to walk the earth. With their bodies attached. Did he specify what state they needed to be in?

[Andezzar]

The Balor isn't going to honor the deal. Doing so is pretty evil, so I wouldn't really bother trying to use that route and NOT be evil. I'd bring him five souls of the most holy the most righteous, the most bad-*** paladins and clerics to walk the earth. With their bodies attached. Did he specify what state they needed to be in?How would the Malconvoker have access to the paladins' souls without committing evil acts? Paladins would also fall if they made a deal with evil outsiders.

[StoneCipher]

How would the Malconvoker have access to the paladins' souls without committing evil acts? Paladins would also fall if they made a deal with evil outsiders.

He is implying you bring champions of good to kill the Balor.

[Andezzar]

He is implying you bring champions of good to kill the Balor.The question is, will the balor come out if the malconvoker does not actually have the five souls.

[(Un)Inspired]

How did the balor define "soul of worth"? There's got to be sooooo much leeway there.

[Troacctid]

How did the balor define "soul of worth"? There's got to be sooooo much leeway there.

I'm now imagining the character presenting the Balor with five gerbils named Worth, Worth II, Worth III, Worth IV, and Worth Jr.

[Honest Tiefling]

Rename yourself to Worth. The souls you have are now 'of Worth'. Or buy the most expensive dog breed or other ornamental pet you can. Value is a type of worth, right?

I wonder if bringing a demon the souls of other demons is acceptable.

[StoneCipher]

You can take it farther and find shoes from a guy named worth. HERE YOU ARE! 5 SOLES OF WORTH!

[atemu1234]

Rename yourself to Worth. The souls you have are now 'of Worth'. Or buy the most expensive dog breed or other ornamental pet you can. Value is a type of worth, right?

I wonder if bringing a demon the souls of other demons is acceptable.

I'm fairly certain nonnative outsiders don't have souls; or at least, they don't have a soul separate from their body. All they are is what they are; there's not a soul left once their true form is destroyed.

[Red Fel]

I wonder if bringing a demon the souls of other demons is acceptable.

Actually, once we get past the whole "dealing with Evil Outsiders is Evil" and "trading in souls is Evil" issue, this is not only a good idea, it's an easy idea.

Remember, Outsiders lack the body-soul duality; put differently, the body is the soul, and vice versa. Simply subdue five Evil Outsiders (without destroying them), imprison them, and bring them to the Balor. Bingo-bango, five corporealized souls, ready for shipment, have a nice day.

Then, of course, you run, because once he has what he wants from you, he is totally going to murder you. And since you just dealt him a full house of souls, you're going to wind up on his side of the planar cosmology anyway.

[Honest Tiefling]

Bring him the souls belonging to a different Demon Lord who might be a bit upset about this. And why would he ever physically be in the same place as the Balor to hand them over? If running is your best option, something has gone horribly wrong here.

[(Un)Inspired]

Did the balor say that you must put into his possession 5 souls of worth or just to bring him 5 souls of worth?

In your post it says that you're merely required to "get" 5 souls of worth. This sounds incredibly vague and open to interpretation as well.

If a creature of law like a devil is going to make such vaguely worded contracts then he deserves to get exploited.

[Andezzar]

I'm fairly certain nonnative outsiders don't have souls; or at least, they don't have a soul separate from their body. All they are is what they are; there's not a soul left once their true form is destroyed.Who said you have to destroy the body before getting the souls?


Did the balor say that you must put into his possession 5 souls of worth or just to bring him 5 souls of worth?

In your post it says that you're merely required to "get" 5 souls of worth. This sounds incredibly vague and open to interpretation as well.

If a creature of law like a devil is going to make such vaguely worded contracts then he deserves to get exploited.A balor is a demon. If he plans to break the deal anyways, there is no need for an airtight wording.

[(Un)Inspired]

A balor is a demon. If he plans to break the deal anyways, there is no need for an airtight wording.

Balzac! You're right! It's pit fiends that are devils isn't it?

Well yeah I think your best bet is to take a trip to its home plane and take it out.

[herculesftw]

It basically has to have around as much hit die as me



None. The Balor merely offered to raise the Malconvoker in exchange for either his own soul, or five souls of worth.

Now the OP seems to be forgetting the "of worth" part, which generally means innocent. Or in other words not-evil.

I'd have used the Contract Devil from Pathfinder myself. Balors don't seem to be the kind of fiends that would go for 1 or 5 souls. They've got bigger plans.

[herculesftw]

You can take it farther and find shoes from a guy named worth. HERE YOU ARE! 5 SOLES OF WORTH!

I really Lol'd too funny man, nice one

[herculesftw]

Thanks for all the replies guys=) It was a reallllllllllly messed up day for my character. First I had to sell my soul to save everyone from a Dalmosh. It was a random encounter where we rolled to see themonster manual it was from, and we rolled the page which was 16, and this OP creature just wrecked our party. I rolled a high enough knowledge the plains check to know that there is a simple ceremony to calling this creature. My DM plays openly with encounters, especially when he sees we can't handle it, so he basically put it like this, 'offer the creature 10,000 gold worth of food, using your soul as credit.

Roll a d20 to see how many days you have to offer the creature the food, and if you don't in time, it eats your soul instead. Keep in mind, I did this to save everyone I was partied with. It was a new guild I joined, and in this specific encounter I found what a bunch of jerks they all were. Their responses were, well we're not paying for that, and no one asked you to do that, ect. I was shocked and to make matters worse I rolled a 1, so I HAD ONE DAY! long story short, through many bluff checks, I was able to survive, that day. . . and fed that scary monster 10k worth of food. Then later on in a mission I was kidnapped by Yuanti, and was in the motions of being sacrificed to awaken a Colossal Snake.
One of the NPCs that was with us had a ring that allowed her a one time use 5 round balor to be called and under her command. She was an arrogant warrior and in the thrill of battle she had it use it's
firestorm ability, which killed most of the enemies, but my character died instantly, one from the
massive damage, and then from the shock, which fort save I failed. The reason why I think a
harvester devil would help me, is because the longer he stays trapped=the less amount of time he has
to fill his quota for whatever boss he's serving, which makes him more than likely to be demoted,
which is the biggest fear a devil has.
What I want to do, is find a way to transfer this contract to a
devil, vs a demon, since devils are 'easier' to bargain with. Harvester devils would be my best bet
since they have much to lose, and a lot to gain, potential promotion with 5 souls of 12hd+ Also if I
were to die and go to hell, it would be easier for my guild to get me back, vs trying to go to the
abyss.

[herculesftw]

also there is no time limit to this, since Balor's are not worried about time, and it's a win-win for him anyways. Learning his name would be invaluable though, definitely a priority of mine

[RoboEmperor]

You're a malconvoker. You're supposed to trick him.
"I already gave you those souls. Remember?"
*bluff success
"Really? I guess you're right. I am sometimes forgetful"

the above example is a horrible one, but you get the idea. Try scamming him.

"My death will serve Baator, so it would be in your best interest to release me"
"This item is worth 100 souls and I'll pay you with it"
"I know your deepest darkest secret, and upon my death it will spread across the entirety of the realms"

That or the usual geas/quest, suggestion, dominate monster type spells to mind control him into releasing you. Limited wish replicating geas is 1 standard action, no save, and make the geas command "Release me from our contract" or something.

or planar bind him and negotiate. In return for your freedom you will relinquish my soul. Then win the charisma check.

[Twilightwyrm]

Demonic pacts are significantly more...tricky than Devil pacts, so I would hold off on the Harvester Devil. Because here's the thing: alignment change or no, this Balor will never stop haunting your footsteps. Sure, the Balor says 5 souls, and from a meta-perspective this really depends on how you think your DM will play him, but were I in your position, I would simply seek someone to get the damn ring off, and work towards killing the Balor as soon as possible. Because a Balor is Chaotic Evil. There is no law in the multiverse requiring him to free you from your service, or not simply kill you once you've brought him the souls, and theoretically speaking, there is no law in the multiverse requiring you to bring him said souls. There is only the threat of death he poses. On the one hand, this is good, since you likely only have him (and while he lives his potential underlines) to worry about. You need not worry about diabolical soul collectors or bounty hunters coming to force to to make good on your pact. On the other hand, the Balor presumably knows all this and will act accordingly, to work you through fear and coercion into doing this until he gets his souls, or gets bored with your efforts. So if you want my perspective? Load up on demon killing spells, get your party on board with your mission, and go Demon hunting.

[Werephilosopher]

Kill the balor with a thinaun blade. That'll stop it from ever coming after you. :smallamused:

[herculesftw]

i appreciate all the advice guys, good stuff. Once I'm 14th lvl I'll get banishment, and start my interrogation process. It's going to feel, very dean winchester like I'm sure

[Honest Tiefling]

I had assumed the biggest reason to get the 5 souls was to get the rings off which are doing...Something to the character, particularly in regards to his soul.

[NecessaryWeevil]

It could be that the rings are nothing more than a visual reminder, meaning that removing them would accomplish nothing.

[JDL]

One last note: As a Malconvoker, you can call other evil outsiders and bind them into your service. Why not focus on calling some that may already be in possession of souls? Tell them to give you the souls they possess as the task they must perform for you. It's not technically evil since the souls are already damned, you're just exchanging the goods from one bad guy to another.

[Sith_Happens]

One last note: As a Malconvoker, you can call other evil outsiders and bind them into your service.

Better idea: The Balor wants the souls of those whole have "willingly accepted damnation [to the Abyss]." Demons fit that description perfectly. Call and trap the desired number, deliver them via whatever means keeps you physically farthest away from the Balor, and still be prepared to immediately GTFO just in case.

[Honest Tiefling]

It could be that the rings are nothing more than a visual reminder, meaning that removing them would accomplish nothing.

Free stuff! What a helpful Balor. I'd enchant and pimp those out pronto to go with my free Resurrection.

[Grollub]

First thing that popped into my head:

Find 5 people that serve the Demon you made the deal with, trick them, and take their souls...

I mean.. they serve the demon.. so they must be "of worth" :smallcool:

[Deophaun]

The problem with trying to use word play to get out of this is that the Balor is not a devil. As others have pointed out, there's nothing to enforce the deal, so the Balor isn't going to leave the malconvoker alone until the Balor is satisfied. And even then, the Balor is still going to kill him and try to take his soul on top of it.

The good news is that backstabbing evil outsiders and going back on deals with them is exactly what the malconvoker does. This should only be an evil act for the character if the character actually intends to follow through.

What you have now is a recurring villain who will show up, either in person or through minions, to try to make your life difficult until he gets what he wants or you end him. Lie to him. String him along. Then betray him. It's what you do.

[herculesftw]

Update:
got pretty lucky with my guildmates in an encounter with a noble efreeti. We pulled from the deck of many things and of the many things we got out of it, I was able to land a few wishes. I asked my DM how many wishes it would take to learn the name of the Balor who did this to me. So 2 wishes later and I'll know his name=)