Suggestions For Building A Low-Level Batman

[Kid Jake]

So a player just had his favorite character killed off in a pretty grisly scenario and he's feeling pretty glum about it. I told him that I'd do what I could to help him play any concept he could think up and the first thing that cropped up was Kobold Batman. How would you go about statting up a non-magical BFC that strikes from the shadows and messes with people's heads?

Right now they're at Level 6 and have a 25pt point buy. Very low op for the most part.

[Fallenreality]

You have a few options depending on how little magic you want, if you consider ki pools too supernatural, etc.

A few obvious choices for replicating Batman's abilities would be monk, rogue, or ninja. Ninja and Monk both have ki pools but are able to use them to replicate Batman like skills.

Monk:
Can use archetypes to tune it however you like, probably the lowest tier option without some serious effort.

Ninja:
Very fitting for the theme, can be built for both thrown weapons and unarmed combat. Ninja's also have smoke bombs and all that.

Rogue:
Very similar reasons to Ninja but without a Ki Pool.

I would personally pick ninja out of this list. You can also go Alchemist however. It's a bit more magical due to extracts, but your discoveries will end up giving you a utility belt of bombs worthy of Batman, not to mention your other alchemical items. If he was to go this option, the alchemy rules would allow for him to make some fun things. It would require him to work with you to allow some of his ideas though.

Bonus:
Investigator, lovely hybrid class. Invokes good old school detective Batman, still has extracts which are a bit magical, but has a lot of useful skills and some fun options. Also a Kobold dressed like a stereotypical private eye or Sherlock Holmes is rather funny.

Edit:
Investigator is even better as you can take the Sleuth archetype http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/sleuth and replace your extracts with a pool of luck that you can spend on a variety of things. That should solve the magic end of things. You can also combine it with Empiricist http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/empiricist and make a true detective. It replaces your poison use and all that. That's a bit more old school Batman than the punch everything Batman everyone is familiar with nowadays.

Just a note about combining the two Archetypes. One gives bonuses keyed off your int, one off of your charisma. Just a heads up to avoid becoming too MAD

[grarrrg]

Start with Sap Adept (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-adept-combat) and levels in (Sneak Attack class of choice).
Batman does NOT kill, and Sap Adept gives you a good damage bonus on Sneak Attacks.
You may need to read up on how exactly Nonlethal damage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Nonlethal-Damage) works.
Here's the quick version:
If a characters Nonlethal damage is higher than their Current HP, then they are Unconscious.
If a characters Nonlethal damage is equal to their Max HP, then convert any extra Nonlethal damage into Lethal damage.

So in short, if Damage+Nonlethal is > Max HP, opponent drops, same as if Damage is higher than their HP.

Anywho, good classes are:
Ninja, would be better if Kobolds didn't have a CHA penalty, as Ki Pool runs off CHA.
Rogue, Ninja is probably better overall, but Rogue has a few archetype tricks that Ninja does not.
Vivisectionist Alchemist, least combat focused, but casting/Mutagen has it's perks.
Slayer, doesn't have as much Sneak dice as the other classes, but Full Bab + Studied Target more than make up for it.

With the massive STR penalty, you are VERY much better off going the Finesse route.

[Laughingmanlol]

As for the psychological aspect, you could let the player take Sow Terror (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/sow-terror-monster), a monster feat that makes enemies shaken on succeeding on a stealth check by 5 or more. Combine it with another source of fear, such as the Thug and Bandit archetypes for Rogue, and you have a stealthy combatant that gets extra actions in the surprise round, during which some opponents will likely already be shaken and can be upped to frightened with a sneak attack.

[Vhaidara]

If you're willing to use quality third party, the Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker) from Dreamscarred Press' Path of War can make a solid Batman. Particularly if you trade out one of your discipline options for Black Seraph (Intimidate focus, using dark powers) and use your other maneuvers to focus on Broken Blade (unarmed combat, includes a lot of Combat Maneuver bonuses).

As a further option, you could use the Stalker's Judge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker/stalker-archetypes/judge-stalker-archetype) archetype, which trades Deadly Strike (bonus damage on and following crits) for Inquisitor Judgements.

A feat from Path of War that you should definitely give him is Greater Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Greater-Unarmed-Strike-Combat-). It will let him be a competent unarmed melee combatant without needing to rely on Monk levels.

[Fallenreality]

If you're willing to use quality third party, the Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker) from Dreamscarred Press' Path of War can make a solid Batman. Particularly if you trade out one of your discipline options for Black Seraph (Intimidate focus, using dark powers)

I feel that Black Seraph is a bit supernatural compared to what he is looking for. Stalker arts tend to border on overly supernatural as well, including outright giving you precognition for a few rounds. Also due to the assassinish nature of the class I have to say it's probably not the best choice.

On the other hand, taking the Martial Training feat also from PoW can give any class some useful maneuver. I do agree that broken blade has some rather helpful ones for the concept.

[Vhaidara]

I feel that Black Seraph is a bit supernatural compared to what he is looking for. Stalker arts tend to border on overly supernatural as well, including outright giving you precognition for a few rounds. Also due to the assassinish nature of the class I have to say it's probably not the best choice.

I dunno. Sounds kind of like Batman to me. Also, you recommend Ninja and call Stalker to assassiny and supernatural?

Further, let's be honest: Batman is an assassin. But because he's using unarmed strikes, he deals nonlethal damage.

[Fallenreality]

I dunno. Sounds kind of like Batman to me. Also, you recommend Ninja and call Stalker to assassiny and supernatural?

Further, let's be honest: Batman is an assassin. But because he's using unarmed strikes, he deals nonlethal damage.

True, but ninja allows solid use of your "Batarangs" and unarmed. It also gives you smoke bombs, and the rather big one, pressure points. Sneak attacking someone causes ability damage, allowing you to knock someone out very easily. It would just be easier to build towards the concept with ninja than with stalker. It's also a pretty low op group according to the OP so introducing maneuvers and all that might complicate things.

Ninja are less supernatural as long as you avoid the walking up walls and shadow clones.

[Taveena]

The Stalker's Steel Serpent discipline allows heavy use of thrown weapons! Yaaay! If you'd prefer to avoid too much overt supernatural stuff, then the upcoming Eternal Guardian discipline has a lot less overt maneuvers, more tanking focus, while still retaining the heavy Intimidate aspect.

[RoboEmperor]

Just roll a rogue with a bajillion wands. That's what batman does anyways. Stealth, then BAM! High tech weapon in your face!

But that is still magical BFC

Honestly I think a gish is the best batman. He crafts his own gear, can craft his own tanks (constructs/effigies), crafts gear that makes him super stealthy, etc.

Right gear for the right job is the right spell, especially since it's vancian, which feels more like throwing grenades than casting spells.

Anyways, for non caster batmans, I really think UMD as class skill is a requirement. If you seen any occasional batman cartoons/movies/etc. you'll know that he loses the 1st fight, then comes back with a ton of anti-___ gear and wins.

Also rogues for the skill points. Batman needs intimidate in addition to all the trap and stealth stuff.

[Elricaltovilla]

Now normally I'd be suggesting adding Path of War, but instead I'll go ahead and second the recommendation for Investigator. They really come into their own around 4th level, so since the character is starting higher than that, the player won't have to deal with feeling kinda sucky. Investigators can really capitalize on the batman's intelligence and ingenuity with their class features and huge pool of skills/skill points. You can refluff extracts to be little devices and gadgets, use shuriken for batarangs and invest in some unarmed strike stuff.

The only things I really recommend going 3rd party for are the Deadly Agility (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Deadly-Agility-Combat-) and Greater Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Greater-Unarmed-Strike-Combat-) feats, both from Dreamscarred Press's Path of War.

[(Un)Inspired]

First off, +1 to the investigator idea. It's got some drinking based magic but it kicks a lot of arse without explicitly slinging spells.

Second, Is this a huge spoiler for your Civic Duty campaign? I don't want either of those guys to die... Again.

[Kid Jake]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and sorry (Un)Inspired for the spoiler :smallredface:

He's decided on an Investigator because it seems pretty versatile and seems to enable his stated goal of punching people in the back of the head pretty well. What Talents and Extracts would you recommend to him?

I've been looking them over, but I'm less familiar with Pathfinder than I am with 3.5 and the last time I helped hi build a character (a Druid) my suggestions ended up biting him right in the ass.

[Elricaltovilla]

Here's an Investigator Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384824-The-Investigator-s-Grand-Turnabout-N-Jolly-s-guide-to-the-Pathfinder-Investigator) by N. Jolly. Should help get you started.

[Kid Jake]

Thankya, looks like that should help a lot.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm partial to the steel hound archetype. He could an inverted batman who ALWAYS uses a gun.

[Kid Jake]

"As I looked down, staring at the faces of my murdered parents laying in that dark alley I had but one thought... That was a REALLY effective weapon."
-Reverse Batman