Build Help

[bootzin]

Hi guys, I'm making a new character to a DnD session, and I've came up with the following build:

Race: Goliath (LA+1)

1. Goliath LA, bought at third level as per UA
2. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1
3. Wolf Totem Barbarian 2
4. Ranger 1
5. Ranger 2 (TWF)
6. Cavestalker 1
7. Cavestalker 2
8. Cavestalker 3
9. Cavestalker 4
10. Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 1
11. Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 2
12. Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 3
13. Deepwarden 1
14. Deepwarden 2
15. Cavestalker 5
16. Cavestalker 6
17. Cavestalker 7
18. Crusader 1
19. Crusader 2
20. Crusader 3
21. Free

The idea of the build is mainly be able to wield 2 one handed Huge spiked chains with no penalties (besides the TWF ones), due to Powerful build and Cavestalker's ability to consider the spiked chain one size smaller and a one handed weapon.

Deepwarden is there because I'll only be able to use light armor, and dex is not gonna be a high stat for me, so I wanted to add Con instead of Dex to AC

Crusader is there for Thicket of Blades, mainly, but also because he goes on well with a tanking

As for feats, I've considered the following: Monkey grip to allow me to use gargantuan spiked chains while raging (Mountain Rage ACF), although with a -2 penalty, EWP (Spiked Chains) for obvious reasons, Wolf Berserker to increase my chance to trip, power attack because it helps with the damage, Endurance because it is a prereq and not much besides this.

I have Pounce, Mountain rage, Improved trip, Track, TWF, and some other cool class features.

What are your thoughts about this build? It's not supposed to be fully optmized, but a little bit it is, do you think it would work well? Anything I should change? And any advice about feats?

[OldTrees1]

The 7th level Cave Stalker ability is nigh worthless to you. So I would drop 5th-7th levels.

If you already have the ranger two-weapon combat style and the spiked chain exotic combat style, then the improved exotic combat style allows you to treat a spiked chain as one size category smaller for the purpose of use in a cramped space (see Expert Spelunker, above).

5 levels is a bit of a cost to get +Con to AC. Why won't you have enough Dex(reach and dual wielding seems designed for the Combat Reflexes -> Double Hit feat chain)?

[bootzin]

Damn, you're right, I've skipped that line :/
Do you know any cheap ways of wielding a huge weapon then?

They are a little costy indeed, but I wanted to rely on 2 stats only, as it is a 28 point buy campaign.. I could manage to get a higher dex, but I don't know how exactly would that go. I want to trip with this character, and I want to trip a lot, but I liked the idea of wielding 2 huge spiked chains. Kratos sends his regards :smallcool:

So, any idea on how to modify tthis build?

[OldTrees1]

Damn, you're right, I've skipped that line :/
Do you know any cheap ways of wielding a huge weapon then?

They are a little costy indeed, but I wanted to rely on 2 stats only, as it is a 28 point buy campaign.. I could manage to get a higher dex, but I don't know how exactly would that go. I want to trip with this character, and I want to trip a lot, but I liked the idea of wielding 2 huge spiked chains. Kratos sends his regards :smallcool:

So, any idea on how to modify tthis build?

28 point buy with your +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex and +6 Str, +4 Con from Mountain Rage(you are grabbing the Extra Rage feat right? Maybe even pay 3000gp for Extended Rage from Otyugh Hole)
14/14/14 costs 18 points and gives you 22/20/12. With +4 gear(16K gp each) you get 26/24/16.

16/14/16 costs 26 points and gives you 24/20/14. With +4 gear(16K gp each) you get 28/24/18.


Well I would suggest investing in:
Warhulk 4 or War Mind 5 so your attacks hit areas
Warblade 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 gives you a larger range that you can pretend is still melee attacks (although it does not increase your threatening reach)


I do not know of cheap ways to wield larger weapons. Mostly because weapon damage is insignificant rather than Strongarm Bracers being expensive.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Unless you're using the goliath substitution levels to grow to large substitution levels, monkey grip won't get you up another size on weapons. Also, if you are using said substitution level, use the strongarm bracers from the MIC to get the same end result without the penalty or loss of feat.

[OldTrees1]

Unless you're using the goliath substitution levels to grow to large substitution levels, monkey grip won't get you up another size on weapons. Also, if you are using said substitution level, use the strongarm bracers from the MIC to get the same end result without the penalty or loss of feat.

Mountain Rage is the name of the Rage from the Substitution level so those would work.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Mountain Rage is the name of the Rage from the Substitution level so those would work.

Ah, I missed that in his follow-up. I didn't see it mentioned in the build stub. That said, the advice on monkey grip still holds.

[bootzin]

28 point buy with your +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex and +6 Str, +4 Con from Mountain Rage(you are grabbing the Extra Rage feat right? Maybe even pay 3000gp for Extended Rage from Otyugh Hole)
14/14/14 costs 18 points and gives you 22/20/12. With +4 gear(16K gp each) you get 26/24/16.

16/14/16 costs 26 points and gives you 24/20/14. With +4 gear(16K gp each) you get 28/24/18.

IIRC, Goliath gives you +4 in STR, +2 CON and -2 DEX. +6 STR and +4 CON from Mountain Rage (I plan to get extra rage, but should I get it more than once?). So with 28 PB that would be 16/15/16, which would give me 26/15/22, with the points I get from levels I believe it could become 28/16/24, I won't consider items for now, bc I want to see how does the build itself goes without them.

Do you think I should give up on the DEX 15 to get 2 points to spend on another attribute? I though about going to 15 because I could spend only one level point to increase it to 16.

As for the build itself, do you think it would be worth to get knockback, and change the build into a mix of a tripper and a bull rusher? Then I'd go something like Dungeoncrasher.. Maybe I can still wield 2 one handed spiked chains, let's see..

1 - Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1
2 - Wolf Totem Barbarian 2
3 - Ranger 1
4 - Ranger 2
5 - Cavestalker 1
6 - Cavestalker 2
7 - Cavestalker 3
8 - Cavestalker 4
9 - Fighter 1
10 - Fighter 2
11 - Crusader 1

From then on I haven't really decided yet.. I could get a couple more levels of crusader, but that would be best done in later levels. Maybe Warmind 5 and a level of Psywar, so that I had access to expansion. Or maybe war hulk 10, which would allow me to attack not 2 adjacent squares, but every threatened square I wanted to hit. Combined with shock trooper and knockback, I could trip a bunch of enemies and get an extra attack on them via Improved trip, but I guess thats just too much optimization..

Although Warblade seems like a nice option for the build, I don't it is necessary to attack further than 10' without threatening..

And I'll probably get Oversizer 2 weapon Fighting, to suffer only a -2 penalty on attacks.. Maybe get Inhuman Reach?

The only thing I don't really like about this secon build is that it's basically what every goliath build does: Dungeoncrashing, a lil bit of tripping, knockback, all these things.. What do you think?

[OldTrees1]

Goliath might be +4/+2/-2 (Str/Con/Dex). I am away from my books.

3 rages/day can be enough for some groups. Others will want to take Extra Rage twice for 5 rages/day.

I would suggest a 16 Str(before modifiers), a 14 Con(before modifiers) and a 16 Dex(before modifiers). If you need more points for the other stats(was not apparent earlier) then I would drop Str to 15 or 14 since you have a lot of modifiers that boost Str.

Knockback requires you to wield it two handed rather than dual wielding. Otherwise I would strongly recommend it. But that one requirement makes it antithetical to your build. Maybe as a backup strategy?

You can get away from the road well traveled by avoiding Thicket of Blades, Knockback and Dungeoncrasher. That saves you 3 levels that you could use to advance in a different direction. Warblade 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 is a bit farther away from the road.

[bootzin]

It is +4/-2/+2, just checked them here.

I'll start with 3 rages/day, if the need calls, I'll get it once more (:

I think I'll go 14/16/16/10/8/8, it may be useful to get rid of that -1 penalty on skills/level. Tha will give me 18/14/18/10/8/8 after the modifiers, which I guess is pretty good. I don't think I need 20 in STR, and that extra skill/level will make me a little bit useful out of battle.

I used the time I was checking for the goliath and also checked the knockback feat. It doesn't require you to wield a 2-handed weapon, just to use your power attack feat. The bonus you get from a 2 handed is that you add double the amount you take out of your BAB to your bull rush check. So if I dual wield a spiked chain, I can do this twice, should the first attempt fail. If I want to trip them, if the first attempt fail, I can let my weapon go and knockback them with a 2-handed weapon instead

Well, I'll give it a go at the warblade then. Maybe put a level of Bear Warrior (Is that the name of the class?) and get Warshaper 3, for an extra 5' reach. That will come to be pretty cool actually (:

Thanks for the advices, they were really useful ^^

[herrhauptmann]

Strongarm bracers and Heavy weapons from magic of faerun. 2 effective size increases in weapon.

Heavy weapons are another feat for proficiency, and you can't finesse them.

[Darrin]

Check with your DM about Exotic Weapon Master's "Uncanny Blow" stunt, see if you can get two-handed power attack on one-handed weapons.

Everything else looks good. If you have room for it, Combat Reflexes + Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook) will let you attack with two spiked chains on an AoO.