Clarification on rules, please

[Falcos]

To begin, I apologize if this is in the wrong area or similar such error. :)

Okay, my question: I am playing a Samurai.

I am using Iaijutsu Focus.

As my first action in combat, I am drawing my wakizashi and leaving it impaled in random mook number 1's chest.

Later in the combat, I am noticing that random mook number 2 is somehow now flat-footed. (We'll say a wizard did it)

Can I "draw" my wakizashi from random mook number 1's chest and get my Iaijutsu focus bonus on damage?

[Afgncaap5]

I'm not as versed on Iajitsu Focus rules as I'd like to be, sadly, or on the rules about drawing things. I don't *think* so, but I think it might rely on whether or not you're close enough to random mook 1, and what kind of action it is to pull a weapon out of something it's stuck in (the ground, a door, an enemy, etc.) A quick glance at the list of types of actions in the PH does say "If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item." Retrieving a stored item is listed as a different kind of action (and also provokes an attack of opportunity, which drawing does not) so I'd say that no, you can't do that.

But, again, I'm not well versed on this set of rules.

[Falcos]

Disappointing, but thanks for the answer.

Still open to other thoughts on this topic from anyone who is more confident in their answer, or, for that matter, has a way to preserve the concept if this implementation is inherently flawed.

[Vhaidara]

As my first action in combat, I am drawing my wakizashi and leaving it impaled in random mook number 1's chest.

The problem your going to run into is that I don't believe there even is a RAW way of doing this.

[Falcos]

I believe there's a weapon quality (Fleshgrinding?) that says that leaving a weapon impaled in an enemy does continual damage.

I would, using RAW (and assuming that I'm not forgetting some vital detail, like can only be done if you're wearing the colour green), assume that that meant I could impale an enemy and just get nothing for it.

EDIT: Having read Fleshgrinding, I retract this statement, and ask the question: Is there really no RAW for just leaving a pointy thing in the bad guy?

[Vhaidara]

I suppose you could just let go and drop the weapon, but that would be the GM's call, since technically, you would stab someone/cut through them, then drop the weapon separately.

[Falcos]

A little off-topic, but how does that work with things like throwing axes? Shuriken?

[Vhaidara]

A little off-topic, but how does that work with things like throwing axes? Shuriken?

Well, shurikens are treated as ammo, so they get destroyed when they hit. As far as the axes, that would fall into the category of a rules gap.

[atemu1234]

Well, shurikens are treated as ammo, so they get destroyed when they hit. As far as the axes, that would fall into the category of a rules gap.

I'm fairly certain thrown weapons can be retrieved.

[Vhaidara]

I'm fairly certain thrown weapons can be retrieved.

Retrieval, yes. I meant drawing from the body for the purposes of Iaijutsu Focus.

[Falcos]

Can anybody think of a way to preserve the concept here, or should I write it off as a lost cause at this point?

[redwizard007]

Let's say you are fighting guys named Sheath or Scabard so the language will support your idea.

If Sheath is dead then you are "picking a weapon up off the ground."

If Sheath is still alive then he actually has posession of your sword and you need to disarm him (+4 bonus since he isn't using his hands...) to draw your sword from his chest.

Oh, and if he's not adjacent to you then 0% chance.

And, it's just as easy for Sheath, or one of his friends, to draw the sword from his chest and attack you with it.

... So no. Not going to work.

[Darrin]

Is there really no RAW for just leaving a pointy thing in the bad guy?

There is, but the pointy thing has to be a harpoon (Frostburn).

[Afgncaap5]

Theoretically, you could go to the DM and say "Look, this doesn't appear to be covered by rules anywhere because of [reasons]. Can we work together to make a [homebrew thingy, probably a feat or skill trick] to make this work?" Or, alternatively, just seeing if the DM is okay with the concept.

[Doc_Maynot]

Warning: what I'm about to say is a bit silly.
Quick guide to being able to use Iajutsu Focus with any weapon.
Requirements: Quickdraw, Quarterstaff (free), -2 Sword (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordCursed), the weapon you wish to use Iajutsu focus on. (Note that while the skill says you must draw a melee weapon, the damage does not only apply to a melee weapon attack.)
Step one: Get into a fight.
Step two: Draw the Quartersta- I mean the -2 Cursed Sword.
Step three: With the -2 Sword drawn, Draw the weapon you want to use Iajutsu Focus with.
Step four: Drop the -2 Sword.
Step five: Attack.
Step six: Rinse.
Step seven: Repeat.

[redwizard007]

Warning: what I'm about to say is a bit silly.
Quick guide to being able to use Iajutsu Focus with any weapon.
Requirements: Quickdraw, Quarterstaff (free), -2 Sword (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordCursed), the weapon you wish to use Iajutsu focus on. (Note that while the skill says you must draw a melee weapon, the damage does not only apply to a melee weapon attack.)
Step one: Get into a fight.
Step two: Draw the Quartersta- I mean the -2 Cursed Sword.
Step three: With the -2 Sword drawn, Draw the weapon you want to use Iajutsu Focus with.
Step four: Drop the -2 Sword.
Step five: Attack.
Step six: Rinse.
Step seven: Repeat.

And this is why I (almost) always go RAI instead of RAW.

[skypse]

Sheathed: Condition that a weapon has when it is INSIDE it's sheath (https://www.google.gr/search?q=sheath&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=9TipVKbROcGyU62vgugK&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=799)

Drawn: Condition that a weapon is in when someone pulls it out of it's sheath

Iaijutsu works when you unsheath your weapon which means that pulling it out of a dead body or anything else than it's actual sheath does NOT count as unsheathing per rules of the english language.

[Chronos]

On the other hand, Rule of Cool says to allow it.

[skypse]

Rule of Cool ignores rules of language and grammar and makes written rules and mechanics seem flawed :D

[goto124]

Well, he did leave his wakizashi impaled in a mook's chest...

[skypse]

However it could work if he first impales his target with his weapon's sheath, then put the weapon in that sheath, so when he unsheathes it he has the bonus again :D

[goto124]

However it could work if he first impales his target with his weapon's sheath, then put the weapon in that sheath, so when he unsheathes it he has the bonus again :D

Or just impale the creature with his sheathed sword!

(Meanwhile, at the Things I May No Longer Do While Playing thread...)

[skypse]

Or just impale the creature with his sheathed sword!

(Meanwhile, at the Things I May No Longer Do While Playing thread...)

Well it's a free world out there! He can cut the tip of his sheath USING his sword so he can stab people through his sheath and then unsheath the sword for the bonus. Of course someone argue that this way he loses the bonus for the first attack since his sword is sheathed in the first hit, but I think we can find something to work this around :D

[Falcos]

However it could work if he first impales his target with his weapon's sheath, then put the weapon in that sheath, so when he unsheathes it he has the bonus again :D


This is one of the coolest things I've ever read.

Of course, it has led me to wonder if I could put my sheath in a sheath, so I can Iaijutsu with the sheath, then sheathe my sword in it, then Iaijutsu.

[Renen]

Can I "draw" my wakizashi from random mook number 1's chest and get my Iaijutsu focus bonus on damage?

Just get a stone.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111103.gif

[KingSmitty]

I would allow it simply on coolness factor

[Coidzor]

I believe there's a weapon quality (Fleshgrinding?) that says that leaving a weapon impaled in an enemy does continual damage.

I would, using RAW (and assuming that I'm not forgetting some vital detail, like can only be done if you're wearing the colour green), assume that that meant I could impale an enemy and just get nothing for it.

EDIT: Having read Fleshgrinding, I retract this statement, and ask the question: Is there really no RAW for just leaving a pointy thing in the bad guy?

Nope, entirely up to the DM allowing you to be able to impale them in the first place with the killing blow. And then entirely up to the DM to decide what kind of action pulling your sword out of their corpse would be, or whether carrying around an entire corpse impaled on one of your swords would provide a shield bonus to AC or just some form of soft cover or what in exchange for not being able to use that sword and possibly encumbering yourself with the dead weight.

[Falcos]

I would allow it simply on coolness factor


Thank you, I'm aiming for coolness.

The DM has actually already ruled that corpses are improvised weapons, even if I've got one stuck on the end of a sword.

The original idea was to leave a sword (potentially a flaming one) in a still-living enemy's chest, but a corpse works as proof of concept just as well.

[Renen]

Get a warforged called Stabby.
Install a sheath in its chest.
Keep your sword there.
Any time someone annoys you just say "Come here stabby".

[Andezzar]

Well, he did leave his wakizashi impaled in a mook's chest...I doubt it works by RAW. Isn't a wakizashi a slashing weapon only? (Yup, DMG p. 145) You cannot pierce someone with a slashing weapon.

*stops himself from ranting about the writers' lack of knowledge about weapons and the world in general.*

[Knaight]

Of course, it has led me to wonder if I could put my sheath in a sheath, so I can Iaijutsu with the sheath, then sheathe my sword in it, then Iaijutsu.

This might actually work RAW with improvised weapon rules, where you don't even need to sheathe the sword.

As for both it and the enemy chest idea, rule of cool is very variable. There are campaigns where the tone is such where it's a cool thing to do and should be encouraged. There are campaigns where both are pretty inappropriate to the tone of everything else. Check with the DM.

[skypse]

This is one of the coolest things I've ever read.

Of course, it has led me to wonder if I could put my sheath in a sheath, so I can Iaijutsu with the sheath, then sheathe my sword in it, then Iaijutsu.

I GOT YOU COVERED BRO!!!

http://builder.cheezburger.com/Builder/RenderPreview/57443efd-3124-4591-a19c-4faaacb075d0

[Flickerdart]

Iaido techniques work on the basis that your sword is in a very particular place (at your hip). Drawing it from a random dude would change the angle and forces required completely.

This is also super-abusable, since you can try to argue that every time you stab the enemy, the sword is now sheathed, and you can draw it from them to attack them with it, thereby getting iaijutsu bonuses on every single attack as long as the enemy is flat-footed. This makes the quickrazor absolutely worthless.

[mashlagoo1982]

Somehow get your DM to allow you to make Cloud's sword from Advent Children.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion_Swords

*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
...

[Falcos]

Quiver of Ehlonna full of swords, perhaps?

[Renen]

Or just have a multi-sword sheath. Kinda like having more sheathes hanging from the 1st sheath.

[Doc_Maynot]

And this is why I (almost) always go RAI instead of RAW.

Even if you are using the -2 Sword and a sheathed dagger, just think of the imagery of it.
Reaching for the dagger at their waist, they draw it, but with dark magic a dull, aged blade is pulled out instead from the dagger's sheath. They swing the blade across their target's chest in a manner more akin to throwing as they cast it aside. Repeating the process it can only look like a flurry of metal, with the "swords" dissolving into thin air as fast as they are used.

[KingSmitty]

Somehow get your DM to allow you to make Cloud's sword from Advent Children.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion_Swords

*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
...

EWP: Multi-Sword Sword would be in order

[Falcos]

Somehow get your DM to allow you to make Cloud's sword from Advent Children.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion_Swords

*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
*stab enemy*
*draw different sword*
...

Multiple Fullblades in dimensional storage, perhaps? Glove of True Strike or similar?

[Coidzor]

Oh, by the way, all you gotta do to make the idea of stabbing an enemy with the sheath and leaving a sheath in him work is have several nested layers of combat scabbards (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/combat-scabbard-sharpened).

Provided you can crib 'em from Pathfinder, anyway.


Iaido techniques work on the basis that your sword is in a very particular place (at your hip). Drawing it from a random dude would change the angle and forces required completely.

This is also super-abusable, since you can try to argue that every time you stab the enemy, the sword is now sheathed, and you can draw it from them to attack them with it, thereby getting iaijutsu bonuses on every single attack as long as the enemy is flat-footed. This makes the quickrazor absolutely worthless.

What about every time you deal a blow that kills an enemy or drops them to 0 or fewer hit points, provided that the enemy is 1 size category smaller than the character stabbing them or larger?

So no bag of rats shenanigans and it's mostly useful against mooks that one had a fair chance of killing in one hit anyway?

[Flickerdart]

What about every time you deal a blow that kills an enemy or drops them to 0 or fewer hit points, provided that the enemy is 1 size category smaller than the character stabbing them or larger?

So no bag of rats shenanigans and it's mostly useful against mooks that one had a fair chance of killing in one hit anyway?
If you're going to make that many conditions for it, might as well do something like this:

Iai Cleave [Skill Trick]
Your brutal attack causes a nearby enemy to flinch, giving you the opening to deliver another blow.
Prerequisites: Iaijutsu Focus 5 ranks, Intimidate 5 ranks
Benefit: When you drop an enemy (as per Cleave) with an Iaijutsu Focus attack, select one other enemy within your melee reach. You may make an Iaijutsu Focus attack against him as though he was flat-footed and your weapon was sheathed. If you drop this enemy as well, you may designate a different enemy from the first two, and so on.

[Andezzar]

The problem with skill tricks is that they can only be used once per encounter.
Unless otherwise noted, a skill trick can be performed only once per encounter (or once per minute, for scenes that don’t involve combat or other conflict).

[Renen]

So... you just note that it CAN be used more than once?

[Flickerdart]

I know. It's completely intentional - the skill trick is quite a bit more powerful than the suggested "keep applying Iaijutsu to attacks" because it's also Great Cleave. I feel that this makes it fit the Rule of Cool better twice - it's a much cooler effect due to its power, and the 1/encounter restriction means that it won't be overused and lose its luster.