Roleplaying Advice

[Warior4356]

So when I started playing dnd 3.5 it was with a group that was a little meta/power gaming focused. By a little I mean the first game I ran had a +4 la available and one person had a vow of poverty monk.

Now I am in a group where those things are, shall we say discouraged. During character creation the DM kept making me give him a role playing reason for any thing I wanted to take and I think my character came out alright. But as I said the only real experince I haev revoled around power gaming and meta gaming. Do you think you could possibly post some tips, ideas, or general role playing advice?

Thanks in advance.

[Vhaidara]

So when I started playing dnd 3.5 it was with a group that was a little meta/power gaming focused. By a little I mean the first game I ran had a +4 la available and one person had a vow of poverty monk.

Um...+4 LA is awful, and VoP monk is probably in the 10 weakest things in 3.5 (with most of the others being VoP on other classes, like Artificer or Truenamer)


Now I am in a group where those things are, shall we say discouraged. During character creation the DM kept making me give him a role playing reason for any thing I wanted to take and I think my character came out alright. But as I said the only real experince I haev revoled around power gaming and meta gaming. Do you think you could possibly post some tips, ideas, or general role playing advice?

Well... without knowing anything about the character or what you're taking, this is tricky. I mean, a Necromancer will have different motivations from say, a Paladin.

[Warior4356]

I was just quantifying that there was very few rules and min/maxing was encouraged, it was 3 years ago and that is all I remember.

To your second point why don't I just post the sheet? We are playing 3.0 if you were wondering.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=896598

[Vhaidara]

I was just quantifying that there was very few rules and min/maxing was encouraged, it was 3 years ago and that is all I remember.

Well, just a heads up, they weren't very good at optimizing. The things you listed are the classic jokes around here (VoP monks used to have a thread every week)


To your second point why don't I just post the sheet? We are playing 3.0 if you were wondering.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=896598

Well, it looks like you have everything covered. Unless he wants you covering every spell, feat, and skill point. In which case he's being excessively OCD.

[Afgncaap5]

One piece of advice I could give that's helped a few people in my group is to remember that the game terms we use for things won't necessarily be the same as in-world terms. A roving gang of barbarians might not all be barbarians, they might also include fighters and warriors. Similarly, a group called the Knights Of Pelor might consist of Paladins, Crusaders, Fighters, Knights, Clerics, or Rogues who all manifest their devotion to their deity differently, with none of them really thinking in terms of levels or experience points.

So, rather than finding out what will give you the best power options first, consider what your character wants, how she acts, and how that might influence her future endeavors. Once you figure out what you want the story to be, then find the rules to best fit that.

Having said that, your character sheet looks pretty good. If you have long-term plans, it might be good for your character to have those plans as well. (If you want to multiclass into some necromancy heavy class, for instance, it might be good to classify your spells as all having some necromantic root to them. A fireball might be grown from the fire that killed someone who couldn't escape a house while an animate rope spell might involve borrowing some powers from a poltergeist on another plane. If you were to prestige class into arcane archer, it might be good to not think in terms of "getting the prerequisites" for the class so much as thinking in terms of already being that class, just not to the point where you're getting class features yet. Such a person might chant into her longbow every evening or try to use her longbow as a mnemonic device when preparing spells every day or something.)

[Warior4356]

Okay thanks, but I'm also not quite sure what direction to take a wizard that is not trash, nor is blatant min maxing, I was possibly thinking incantrix (the 3.0 version). But Im not sure what other options are good, also the campaign set in farrun if that helps.

[Vhaidara]

Okay thanks, but I'm also not quite sure what direction to take a wizard that is not trash, nor is blatant min maxing, I was possibly thinking incantrix (the 3.0 version). But Im not sure what other options are good, also the campaign set in farrun if that helps.

Just a warning: That is one of the most powerful Prestige Classes in all of 3.0/3.5. Metamagic effect is absolutely, monumentally broken. Metamagic reduction is possibly the strongest thing in the game outside of free Wish loops.

[Faily]

From your background and Feat-selection, I don't really see anything that is "omg, such powergaming". Spellcasting Prodigy fits well with her background, and Iron Will is something I find is easy to apply to almost any character who have had to actually practice magic. It does make me wonder what your GM is expecting.

Incantatrix, while powerful (not gonna deny that at all), is also very flavourful for Forgotten Realms. Since your character is from Waterdeep, there certainly are enough powerful mages around whom she might learn from. Maybe introduce a mentor or something who is an Incantatrix in the backstory?

[Warior4356]

Just a warning: That is one of the most powerful Prestige Classes in all of 3.0/3.5. Metamagic effect is absolutely, monumentally broken. Metamagic reduction is possibly the strongest thing in the game outside of free Wish loops.

I said 3.0 metamagic effect is 3.5. Also what makes instant metamagic, and metamagic reduction so good?

Okay so if you think my character is good any advice for role playing in general?

[RolandDeschain]

I said 3.0 metamagic effect is 3.5. Also what makes instant metamagic, and metamagic reduction so good?

Okay so if you think my character is good any advice for role playing in general?


I'm not familiar with the 3.0 version of Incantatrix, but the 3.5 version allows you to crank your spellcraft check up to astronomical heights and basically get free metamagics all over the place, while also granting you bonus metamagic feats as the levels progress. It's pretty ridiculous, but then again if you play things a bit more 'subtly' you won't get books thrown at you.

Anyway, after reading your background, I would humbly suggest you look at Guild Wizard. You have some history and possibly a contact there, and it's a pretty good PrC in and of itself. You could play things up a bit if you want to and take the apprentice feat, and write that into your history...

just my two cents

[Warior4356]

I liked guild wizard, but the dm did not like the have to volunteer time requirement, as working that in might not be possible. Can you suggest a good way to make it work?


This last is usually considered the most onerous requirement of membership in the order. Each season, a member must spend ten days directly aiding the order. This can mean anything the Masters deem it to mean: working with the city guard, serving as an arcane guardian for a private concern, taking a turn as city fire watch, creating magic items, performing administrative duties, and so on. The form this aid takes need not be detailed unless the DM and player wish to do so. Regardless of its form, it results in an XP penalty of 10%, cumulative with any other penalty the character has incurred (such as from multiclassing)

This Requirement.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I liked guild wizard, but the dm did not like the have to volunteer time requirement, as working that in might not be possible. Can you suggest a good way to make it work?

He could just waive the requirement. :smallconfused:

[Warior4356]

I somehow doubt he would do that, he seems to loath making anything more powerful.

[JusticeZero]

He might swap it for a tithing requirement or some other non time based one of similar flavor. "I can't make it to the guild hall, can I go fetch you some rare tomes and ingredients on my travels instead?"

[Warior4356]

I will ask about that, out of curiosity what make the guild wizard of waterdeep a good prestige class?

And again anyone have some role playing advice for the game it self not character creation?

[slade88green]

It seems to me you are going to be playing a mainly role playing campaign. The DM seems a bit stiff. He might want to lighten up a little and create adventures based on the characters. I found the players have great fun when the DM immerses them into the campaign. If one of my players was looking to take a guild wizard prestige class, then why not create an adventure to make it happen.
As far as character role playing tips, that is a big subject. Just remember to play the character, figure out a few quirks, traits and such to play into the character. Here is a link to some good tips.
http://jpchapleau.blogspot.com/2013/01/making-fun-organized-play-characters.html

[Warior4356]

Okay thank you, this seem really useful this is exactly what I was looking for.

Any advice on adding quirks with out making a character seem like a character not a person?

[slade88green]

Everyone has quirks, you just have to play them in. Make sure the quirks don't suddenly change or stop, though changing over time works. Always remember that quirks can be gained throughout your adventures. Something simple can make a memorable character. (for example, the guy at a local feed store responds to questions a lot of the time by saying "you knoooooow it" or my habit of licking my lips when I draw.) Just simple things that bring a character to life. Step into the characters shoes and make them come to life. Don't just roll dice for what you do, describe it. If you listen at the door, don't say "I listen at the door" and roll the dice. Instead something like " I'm crouching at the door and pressing my ear to the wood, keeping alert of any sounds from the other side" then roll the dice. Tell the story of your character through role playing.

[P.F.]

And again anyone have some role playing advice for the game it self not character creation?

Well, your character is a person, so she has strengths and weaknesses which influence her decisions. If your character is shy, you try to have her do what a shy person would do. If she is brash and outlandish, ham it up and make impulsive decisions.

I like to start by picking one social trait leaning on that. I'm playing a game right now with a bloke who blurts out the truth at inappropriate times, and it's wildly entertaining. My character doesn't speak common very well, and I garble information I'm supposed to pass to the party. Perhaps your character's always falling for obviously unsuitable rogue-ish men, or maybe she's completely oblivious to romantic attentions. Maybe she asks questions but then keeps talking without waiting for an answer, or uses big words but mispronounces them. Just a recognizable trait that comes up in social situations which can serve as a touchstone for your diplomacy and/or bluff checks.

Then you can pick a couple of catch-phrases, so you have a memorable go-to in other circumstances. You could, for example, go around comparing things to "slurping up spilled beer." Using each one even once a session is often enough, more than a few times might get old. Even something as simple as, "Who!? Me?" or "Oops!" will work. Ideally, you want something that can be used in almost any scenario where your party members are talking among themselves. This may sound contrived, but if you pay attention you will notice that nearly all your friends have catch-phrases that they use constantly. Some of them will have been picked up by other members of your group. Your characters will do this too, and they should have catch-phrases appropriate to their background, and different from the ones that you, the player, use in your daily life.

Then I like to fill it out with some other details. Does your character have any peculiar hobbies? Pet peeves? Unusual tastes in food or drink? My current character is fashion- and status-obsessed. I didn't assign these arbitrarily; he has to be, he's a spy. Social climbing and romancing "women of a certain age" are how he gains access to the connections and information he needs.

And I always find it helpful to put some of my role-playing on the character sheet: the miscellaneous inexpensive equipment that sits in the bottom of the backpack says a lot about a character. In addition to his adventuring gear, my present character carries brushes, ink, and parchment, silk ribbons, sealing wax, and soap. Does your character carry needle and thread? Fishing line and hooks? These sorts of things rarely come up in play, and even more rarely will my DM ask to confirm that I have them written on my character sheet, but they serve to remind me about my character's deep underlying priorities, quirks, and proclivities.

[JDL]

Yep, creating an interesting character doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your strength in optimization. Quirks and fun character personalities mean the other people at the table view your character as an interesting addition to the party and will actively try to aid you in your tasks, instead of seeing you just as a sheet of numbers.

A few of my favourite characters I've had over the years have been:

A tiefling wizard that acted like an accountant for the party, tallying every gold piece earned and writing annual reports of profit and loss as well as individual member's wealth gains.
A halfling druid that carried around a pound of marijuana in a sack, got stoned every opportunity he could get and used to plant the seeds and use Plant Growth to instantly grow weed crops.
A gnome wizard that enjoyed pranking his party members and using toilet humour, who also had a weak bladder and a curse that made any birds he encountered desire to **** on him.
A female dwarf fighter with a beard that was madly infatuated with male human member of the party, was focused on tripping in combat and liked to boast how she could get any man on his back.
A paladin that would start every combat by shouting "Drop your weapons and lay down on the ground!" in a thick German accent.

Get creative and have fun with your character. If you can make someone laugh in your session you've won the game.

[Warior4356]

Thanks P.F. for the wonderful ideas, now I have to think of a few good quirks and traits for her. I think the idea of playing a guild wizard of waterdeeps sounds good, any advice for playing a guild wizard? Also this is kind of new to me, can I get some suggestion on good quirks that wont annoy the party too much?

[jedipotter]

And again anyone have some role playing advice for the game it self not character creation?

You should have a vague idea of the character you want to play. Write it down. You should get a paragraph. Pick five ''likes'' and ''dislikes'' and write a line for each saying way. Write down three goals, one for the next week, one for a year and one for a life time.

Speech is a great way to make a character unique. For example, the military has a lot of social words and speech patters. Ever notice you can tell someone was in the military by the words they use and things they say?

To use Liliana Morieth history so far....she would have a mix of fisherman and dinner speak from her parents. So she would say things like ''hook, line and sinker'' a lot and know many sea animals and say things like ''he is a slimy as an eel''. The dinner speak is even more fun. Ever been to a real dinner, where they say stuff like ''give me an Adam and Eve on a raft and drown'em'', or ''Battle Creek in a bowl'' or ''Bloodhounds in the hay'' or ''Burn one, take it through the garden and pin a rose on it'' or ''Zeppelins in a fog''.

Take each thing on your character sheet and give it a story:

Iron Will: Liliana Morieth was bullied as a child and never stood up one single time, but now as an adult she has vowed to never take anything from anyone again. OR Liliana Morieth was a very bad student at magic school, and almost flunked out. Until she met a kindly wizard tutor that helped her out and gave her discipline and the will to make it. OR Liliana Morieth dad was a con artist, she learned as a girl not to be fooled by things.

Spellcasting Prodgy: (Building on the above) She was bullied as she was ''special''. OR The kind wizard tutor saw her ''special gift'' OR con artist dad ''sold'' her into service to a wizard to pay his debts.

[RolandDeschain]

Thanks P.F. for the wonderful ideas, now I have to think of a few good quirks and traits for her. I think the idea of playing a guild wizard of waterdeeps sounds good, any advice for playing a guild wizard? Also this is kind of new to me, can I get some suggestion on good quirks that wont annoy the party too much?

You asked earlier, why I think it's a good PrC, and the answer is that the class features are good without being "broken" and that there are some real role-playing items in there as well. The spell acquisition is good. The bonus item creation feat is good(seriously what wizard can't use some extra wands?). Counterspelling and Dispelling are kind of "meh", but still not a bad class feature.

The time spent in service to the city, in particular, presents some role-playing opportunities and "depth" for your character. As with any PrC with an 'affiliation' requirement, you should throw yourself into the role and embrace it(maybe even over-zealously), but don't lose sight of the fact that things are always negotiable. I don't hate the idea of "tithing" instead of service, but I don't think I would go for that as a DM. Talk to your DM and talk to your party mates about the fact that your character will have obligations. Encourage them to pick up something to do during "down time".

[Sith_Happens]

I'm not familiar with the 3.0 version of Incantatrix, but the 3.5 version allows you to crank your spellcraft check up to astronomical heights and basically get free metamagics all over the place, while also granting you bonus metamagic feats as the levels progress. It's pretty ridiculous, but then again if you play things a bit more 'subtly' you won't get books thrown at you.

IIRC, 3.0 Incantatrix has the less crazy metamagic features plus some stuff that makes it easier to interact with the Ethereal Plane.

[Warior4356]

So I thought about it and I think I have a few quirks/traits that i liked. I have a few ideas on how to role play them but, I would welcome suggestions on playing them.

1.Shy
2.Patient
3.Cares about her appearance
4.Hates being dirty

As a foot note anyone have an idea about cosmetics, soap etc in dnd?

[Arbane]

As a foot note anyone have an idea about cosmetics, soap etc in dnd?

Well, they definitely do exist. And if you're a wizard, there's Prestidigitation, for all your clean-freak needs.

[Warior4356]

Well, they definitely do exist. And if you're a wizard, there's Prestidigitation, for all your clean-freak needs.

Book source?

[slade88green]

So I thought about it and I think I have a few quirks/traits that i liked. I have a few ideas on how to role play them but, I would welcome suggestions on playing them.

1.Shy
2.Patient
3.Cares about her appearance
4.Hates being dirty

As a foot note anyone have an idea about cosmetics, soap etc in dnd?

With traits like that, I would likely play the character as someone that wanted to be liked, but didnt know how to interact with people very well. Perhaps because of all that time spent in study. Being shy, I would also swap the dex and chr scores around as being shy generally means the person is less confident in themselves. Perhaps she hates being dirty from all those years growing up smelling like fish and being teased because of it. She might over compensate on cleanliness because of it. The shyness could be overcome in time during your adventures.
Soap is sold by the pound in the players handbook. I don't know of anywhere that has cosmetics or perfumes, though this can be solved with prestidigitation spells as can the cleaning of clothes.

[Warior4356]

I was told charisma can be either physical attractiveness, or personality/persuasiveness, I was interpreting it as the former on this character. Also Thank you I will try to work something like that into my backstory. Any suggestions for actually playing these traits in the game itself?

[slade88green]

Play shy as shy. Stay back from the group when they are discussing things. Sit away from people at inns & bars, or avoid the common room altogether. You might not talk much unless asked. I would always save a prestidigitation spell for mid day to clean up as well as the morning casting.

[JusticeZero]

"Shy" and all synonyms therein is a trait that should be deleted from all roleplaying characters. It's a little bit like going into a first person shooter like Counterstrike and declaring "I'm going to play a pacifist!" The whole point of RPing is interaction between characters, and making a character who avoids that is essentially saying "I don't want to play". It just doesn't work.

[Warior4356]

Play shy as shy. Stay back from the group when they are discussing things. Sit away from people at inns & bars, or avoid the common room altogether. You might not talk much unless asked. I would always save a prestidigitation spell for mid day to clean up as well as the morning casting.

True but I only get 3 cantrips, 4 at 2nd or higher. Can I really justify using 2 for a roleplaying trait?

[Hiro Protagonest]

"Shy" and all synonyms therein is a trait that should be deleted from all roleplaying characters. It's a little bit like going into a first person shooter like Counterstrike and declaring "I'm going to play a pacifist!" The whole point of RPing is interaction between characters, and making a character who avoids that is essentially saying "I don't want to play". It just doesn't work.

Nnnnno.

The "I sit in a dark corner wearing a cloak and wait for somebody to talk to me" thing doesn't work unless the group is stuck in the stereotypes, but you can easily play a shy character. Have the shy person know at least one other character well. Describe a lot of your character's body language. Not everyone has to be the party face, they could easily be a strong part of the group when exploring and fighting, but get tongue-tied around anyone they don't know.


True but I only get 3 cantrips, 4 at 2nd or higher. Can I really justify using 2 for a roleplaying trait?

Uh... they're cantrips. Most of the time, shooting a crossbow will be more effective, at least with low levels where enemies mostly lack DR and your BAB difference from a fighter isn't very big. And once you get past low levels, you have far more powerful spells and a greater quantity of cantrips.

[jedipotter]

I was told charisma can be either physical attractiveness, or personality/persuasiveness, I was interpreting it as the former on this character. Also Thank you I will try to work something like that into my backstory. Any suggestions for actually playing these traits in the game itself?

Charisma is both.

Prestidigitation can clean an object, it's in the spell description.

Have a mirror. Always check yourself of dirt or such in the mirror.
Change or clean any clothing that gets even a little dirty.
Avoid dirty things, like mud puddles.
Clean everything off with a rag, like a chair, before you sit down
Wear gloves
Use cloths to pick up objects
Ask people ''how do I look'' or ''does this dress make my butt look big''
Really point out if another woman has let her apparent go or looks dirty
Help other women look nice all the time


For a real fun spin.....ever watch the show Monk? You could do that character. Goggle it...

[Warior4356]

For a real fun spin.....ever watch the show Monk? You could do that character. Goggle it...

Euugh how about no......

In all truth. I like your ideas, but the gloves seem a bit extreme to me, as well as I dont really see her as a dress person. More mainly simple robes. Just nice well made robes, and keeping up her hair and skin. No makeup, just taking good care of her self.

[Warior4356]

Uh... they're cantrips. Most of the time, shooting a crossbow will be more effective, at least with low levels where enemies mostly lack DR and your BAB difference from a fighter isn't very big. And once you get past low levels, you have far more powerful spells and a greater quantity of cantrips.

I ment more of things like read magic and detect magic. That sort of thing, not damaging spells.

[Arbane]

Book source?

Soap's on 3.5 PHB page 128. Cosmetics, I have NO IDEA. Common sense dictates they must exist, as they have in every culture in human history, but I don't know what book they're in.

[kellbyb]

Soap's on 3.5 PHB page 128. Cosmetics, I have NO IDEA. Common sense dictates they must exist, as they have in every culture in human history, but I don't know what book they're in.

When in doubt, mundane stuff like that is usually in Arms and Equipment Guide. Cosmetics are on page 40 under table 2-9: commodities.

[atemu1234]

When in doubt, mundane stuff like that is usually in Arms and Equipment Guide. Cosmetics are on page 40 under table 2-9: commodities.

This tends to be the route I use.

For roleplaying, character tics and verbal turn-of-phrase is actually very useful. I had a character who hated crowds (I didn't have to dig deep for that one) so when he was around one, he would stutter, cower a bit, and whisper.