VoP Mystic Ranger/Fist of the Forest

[Palanan]

For an NPC in a wilderness campaign, I'll be using a simple variant of a classic build, going Mystic Ranger 4 / Monk 1 / Fist of the Forest 1.

This will be a VoP build, and I want to be sure I'm understanding how all the flavors of AC bonus work together. According to the example for Fist of the Forest, the monk's Wisdom bonus stacks with the Con bonus granted by FotF. From VoP, he should have a +6 exalted bonus and a +1 deflection bonus, plus a +1 sacred bonus from Defenders of the Homeland, a bonus exalted feat from Champions of Valor.

So, my questions on the chassis here:


1. Am I correct in assuming that all of these different AC bonuses will stack?

2. Is there something better than Great Fortitude that I could use as an alternate prerequisite for Fist of the Forest?

3. Are there any first- or second-level ranger spells that would work well with this concept? All 3.0/3.5 books allowed.



EDIT:

Just need two more feats to finish the build--constructive suggestions are welcome.



1st
standard - Sacred Vow



human bonus - Vow of Poverty



flaw - Great Fortitude



ranger bonus - Track



exalted bonus - Consecrated Warrior






2nd
exalted bonus - Nemesis






3rd
standard - [?]



ranger bonus - Power Attack






4th
ranger bonus - Endurance



exalted bonus - Lightness of Body






5th
monk bonus - Improved Unarmed Strike



monk bonus - [?]






6th
standard - Superior Unarmed Strike



exalted bonus - Defender of the Homeland



.

[animewatcha]

Thing to say ahead of time. Are you going to punch stuff ahead of time, or quarterstaff ( walking stick ) things to heck and back. The exalted armor bonus will not stack with things like mage armor and what not ( it is okay with deflection, sacred, etc. just specifically armor bonuses like chainmail ).

Another thing to note since dragon mag is open to you ( mystic ranger ), in another issue is moon-warded ranger. Give up first 'style bonus feat' to get Wis to ac with almost exact wording like monk ac bonus except it allows for light armor. For this character, Moon-warded ranger + monk ac = 2 x Wis to ac.

[Darrin]

1. Am I correct in assuming that all of these different AC bonuses will stack?


There's still some debate if the "AC Bonus" from Fist of the Forest stacks with the monk ability. While the name is the same and the text in Fist of the Forest refers back to the monk ability, your Con bonus and Wis bonus are two different things, and thus it could be argued that this is two different "sources". You'll probably need a DM's Call on that, but everything else stacks.



2. Is there something better than Great Fortitude that I could use as an alternate prerequisite for Fist of the Forest?


No, you're stuck with it. Although if you're a Dwarven cleric, you can pick up Great Fortitude with the Dwarf domain.



3. Are there any first- or second-level ranger spells that would work well with this concept? All 3.0/3.5 books allowed.

Instant of power (Forge of War), never leave home without it. I also like blades of fire. For 2nd level, hunter's eye (PHBII) is worth a look, although your caster level as a ranger is always nerfed. Swift haste (Spell Compendium) and lion's charge (same) are very tasty.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Darrin
There's still some debate if the "AC Bonus" from Fist of the Forest stacks with the monk ability…. You'll probably need a DM's Call on that, but everything else stacks.

Okay, thanks. I'm the DM in this case, and I'd noticed some recent discussion about this in the Playground.

As you point out, the Con and Wis bonus are two different sources--and the standard Dex bonus is a third, which no one seems to argue against including in builds like this. In the example character for Fist of the Forest ("Sorag," p. 81) the Con, Dex and Wis bonuses are all added into her final AC, and the bonuses correspond to the stats she's given. Good enough for me.


Originally Posted by Darrin
Swift haste (Spell Compendium) and lion's charge (same) are very tasty.

Nice, thank you. My NPC will be spamming Lion's Charge.

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by animewatcha
Are you going to punch stuff…or quarterstaff ( walking stick ) things to heck and back[?]

Good question, and since the Fist of the Forest is designed around punching things, I'm thinking of giving up the ranger's combat style and using the wildshape ranger from Unearthed Arcana.

But this raises another question: the wildshape ranger gains Small and Medium animal forms "as druid," plus the barbarian's fast movement, but UA doesn't specify when these features kick in. With only four levels of wildshape ranger, I'm assuming the actual wildshape wouldn't come into play.

Given this, is it fair to trade the ranger's combat style for fast movement?

[Red Fel]

But this raises another question: the wildshape ranger gains Small and Medium animal forms "as druid," plus the barbarian's fast movement, but UA doesn't specify when these features kick in. With only four levels of wildshape ranger, I'm assuming the actual wildshape wouldn't come into play.

Given this, is it fair to trade the ranger's combat style for fast movement?

If you're not sure about Wildshape Ranger, you could instead take Fangshields (assuming your PC isn't Humanoid). You can basically take INA for free at level 2.

[Palanan]

Thanks, but the NPC is human, so Fangshields is right out.

Since the mystic ranger has its Combat Style delayed until third level, I'm guessing that's the best time to make the trade for fast movement?

I'd love to swap out Endurance as well, but the Shadow Sword and Shooting Star options aren't too impressive.

[Callin]

Dark Chaos Shuffle? If you can swing it I mean. You dont have the gold to pay for it but if you can spin it to be a quest reward that would work.

[animewatcha]

Thanks, but the NPC is human, so Fangshields is right out.

Since the mystic ranger has its Combat Style delayed until third level, I'm guessing that's the best time to make the trade for fast movement?

I'd love to swap out Endurance as well, but the Shadow Sword and Shooting Star options aren't too impressive.

Fast movement is based on barbarian which a +10 to land speed only ( though untyped ). For 13k, mask of flight ( right name? ) from Magic of faerun book I believe let's do you Fly as the spell at will. Caster level of 5th so it lasts for 5 minutes, but the at will is unlimited. Forgot the VoP. damn it.

What is your con versus wis?

[Necroticplague]

Instead of trading the style for the ranger variant, how about a fitting style? I know there was a dragon magazine that had more styles, one of which gave unarmed and grappling-focused feats (Beast Wrestling, I think, was the style name).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague
Instead of trading the style for the ranger variant, how about a fitting style? I know there was a dragon magazine that had more styles, one of which gave unarmed and grappling-focused feats (Beast Wrestling, I think, was the style name).

Really interesting option here. This would be almost ideal. Do you know what issue of Dragon this was in?

[Necroticplague]

Really interesting option here. This would be almost ideal. Do you know what issue of Dragon this was in? I think it was 326, the Class Act for Ranger.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague
I think it was 326, the Class Act for Ranger.

Thanks, that's it exactly.

As it happens, the Beast-Wrestling style would only give Improved Unarmed Strike, which I'll get from monk anyway. However, in the next column there's the Strong-Arm style, which gives Power Attack as the first combat feat--which is a prerequisite for Fist of the Forest.

So that's perfect. Thank you.



Here's what I have so far on the build:

Mystic Ranger 4 / Monk 1 / Fist of the Forest 1



1st
standard - Sacred Vow



human bonus - Vow of Poverty



flaw - Great Fortitude



ranger bonus - Track



exalted bonus - Consecrated Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?164659-3-5-Exalted-Feats-for-Everyone!)






2nd
exalted bonus - Nemesis






3rd
standard - [?]



ranger bonus - Power Attack






4th
ranger bonus - Endurance



exalted bonus - Lightness of Body (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?164659-3-5-Exalted-Feats-for-Everyone!)






5th
monk bonus - Improved Unarmed Strike



monk bonus - [?]






6th
standard - [?]



exalted bonus - Defender of the Homeland





I still have three feat slots to fill--two standard and one monk bonus. What would work best here?

[Bronk]

Thing to say ahead of time. Are you going to punch stuff ahead of time, or quarterstaff ( walking stick ) things to heck and back. The exalted armor bonus will not stack with things like mage armor and what not ( it is okay with deflection, sacred, etc. just specifically armor bonuses like chainmail ).

Exalted bonuses stack with all other bonus types, including enhancement bonuses and straight up armor bonuses like the mage armor spell grants.

For extra feats, maybe the 'Improved Favored Enemy' feat (CW, p101). It adds +3 to all of your Favored enemy bonuses...

[Snowbluff]

I like the Primal X spells from Dragon Magic. Primal Senses and Primal Instinct.

[Necroticplague]

Exalted bonuses stack with all other bonus types, including enhancement bonuses and straight up armor bonuses like the mage armor spell.
Normally, yes. However, the portion listing benefits of poverty says the AC doesn't stack with armor bonuses.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Bronk
Exalted bonuses stack with all other bonus types, including enhancement bonuses and straight up armor bonuses like the mage armor spell grants.

Nope, not that last. The exalted AC bonus from VoP explicitly does not stack with an armor bonus, as specified on p. 30 of the BoED.

--Ninja'ed in the moment before posting by Necroticplague.


Originally Posted by Snowbluff
I like the Primal X spells from Dragon Magic. Primal Senses and Primal Instinct.

I've hardly ever looked in that book, but if these are ranger spells, they sound perfect for the concept, thanks.



EDIT:

Still need help filling those three empty feat slots, especially with something to help improve all the punching.

.

[Bronk]

Normally, yes. However, the portion listing benefits of poverty says the AC doesn't stack with armor bonuses.

I see that you're right! I wish I had the book at work.

I see that Hunter's Eye has been mentioned, but there's also Hunter's Mercy from the Spell Compendium is pretty good too.

[Palanan]

How would Superior Unarmed Strike interact with Fist of the Forest?

As I understand it, Superior Unarmed Strike allows you to deal unarmed damage as a monk four levels higher. With one monk level, that should come in at 1d8 per strike.

Meanwhile, Fist of the Forest grants 1d8 damage for each unarmed strike--with the provision that if you already deal this amount of damage, it kicks up to the next level on the monk table.

So, here's my question: can I take Superior Unarmed Strike at sixth level (my first level of Fist of the Forest) and deal 1d10 per unarmed strike?

[Darrin]

How would Superior Unarmed Strike interact with Fist of the Forest?


It's... wonky, because the damage increase from FotF is worded oddly.



So, here's my question: can I take Superior Unarmed Strike at sixth level (my first level of Fist of the Forest) and deal 1d10 per unarmed strike?

Yes. Monk 1 + SUS = 1d8 unarmed damage. FotF 1 bumps that up to 1d10. At FotF 3, it goes up to 2d6.

If you add in things like Improved Natural Attack, the Totem Avatar soulmeld, or size increases, then the order of operations gets considerably more confusing, although I believe the general rule is you can choose which abilities affect you in the most beneficial order.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Darrin
Yes. Monk 1 + SUS = 1d8 unarmed damage. FotF 1 bumps that up to 1d10.

Outstanding, thanks. That locks down SUS as my sixth-level feat.



This just leaves a third-level feat and a monk bonus feat to decide. Here's the build as it now stands:



1st
standard - Sacred Vow



human bonus - Vow of Poverty



flaw - Great Fortitude



ranger bonus - Track



exalted bonus - Consecrated Warrior






2nd
exalted bonus - Nemesis






3rd
standard - [?]



ranger bonus - Power Attack






4th
ranger bonus - Endurance



exalted bonus - Lightness of Body






5th
monk bonus - Improved Unarmed Strike



monk bonus - [?]






6th
standard - Superior Unarmed Strike



exalted bonus - Defender of the Homeland





EDIT: Is there anything that would work better than Knowledge Devotion at third level? Because that's looking pretty handy to me.

.