Optional Rule questions

[andhaira]

The DMG offers variant rules. I have some questions on a few:

-Flanking: Does this apply only to melee attacks, or ranged attacks as well? What about spell attacks?

-Fear & Horror: How do you set the DC for Fear & Horror checks? Is there any guideline or table you have found useful in your game?

More as they come.

[Palorin]

Flanking no longer exists as a mechanic.

Fear and horror are at your discretion, I like the 13-18 range myself.

[Jeraa]

Flanking no longer exists as a mechanic.

It does in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Which the first post specifically says:


The DMG offers variant rules. I have some questions on a few:


Flanking: Does this apply only to melee attacks, or ranged attacks as well? What about spell attacks?

The Flanking on Squares section specifically says you get advantage on melee attacks. The Hexes section just says "advantage on attacks". As you must be adjacent to the enemy to flank, limiting it to melee attacks makes sense.


Fear & Horror: How do you set the DC for Fear & Horror checks? Is there any guideline or table you have found useful in your game?

The DC is entirely up to the DM. I would use the chart of typical DCs on DMG page 238, and choose one which was appropriate. More frightening things would have higher DCs.

[Malifice]

Is it just me or are the flanking rules wonky without 5' steps and AoO's when moving out of threatened squares?

With move + full attack + no AoO unless you leave someones reach, youre guaranteed to get flanking (and advantage) every turn (presuming you have an ally with you). Just walk around them on your turn, never leaving their reach.

The facing rules are just as wonky for the same reason.

Both only work if you use the 5' step and AoO for movement through threatened areas from 3.x IMO.

[Once a Fool]

Is it just me or are the flanking rules wonky without 5' steps and AoO's when moving out of threatened squares?

With move + full attack + no AoO unless you leave someones reach, youre guaranteed to get flanking (and advantage) every turn (presuming you have an ally with you). Just walk around them on your turn, never leaving their reach.

The facing rules are just as wonky for the same reason.

Actually, inclusion of the facing rule solves the "problem" you're seeing with the flanking rule. By reducing the area a character can attack, the threatened area is likewise reduced, meaning it is possible to provoke an opportunity attack by leaving it as you circle around someone to get into flanking position.


Both only work if you use the 5' step and AoO for movement through threatened areas from 3.x IMO.

I very much disagree with this conclusion (as indicated above), but if you do want to reintroduce these elements, it should be trivially easy to do so. Or, as a middle ground, you could have an opportunity attack trigger any time someone moved out of someone's side-threatened area or front-threatened area, further limiting free-movement around a foe.

[metaridley18]

Actually, inclusion of the facing rule solves the "problem" you're seeing with the flanking rule. By reducing the area a character can attack, the threatened area is likewise reduced, meaning it is possible to provoke an opportunity attack by leaving it as you circle around someone to get into flanking position.



Agreed that facing helps solve the problem of flanking, but I'm of the opinion that advantage via flanking is too strong. Leaving a flanked position is impossible without taking one AoO with advantage.

Facing gives a drawback in that you expose your rear arc to the allies of whatever you're flanking, but it almost devalues all the features that allow people to gain advantage.

[Once a Fool]

Agreed that facing helps solve the problem of flanking, but I'm of the opinion that advantage via flanking is too strong. Leaving a flanked position is impossible without taking one AoO with advantage.

Well, not if you disengage, but I take your meaning.


Facing gives a drawback in that you expose your rear arc to the allies of whatever you're flanking, but it almost devalues all the features that allow people to gain advantage.

What if flanking instead allowed you to aid your flank-partner as a bonus action? That way, the first flanker to act wouldn't have advantage (from flanking), the second (and all subsequent) flanker(s) would only get it if the other guy gives up a bonus action, and that advantage would only last for one attack, anyway.

[Feldarove]

Flanking giving advantage is very strong. When we ran the starter set, I let flanking give advantage....and things got out of hand.

The whole reason that there isn't AoO by moving through squares (just out) adjacent to an enemy is because flanking doesn't offer advantage (or something else positive).

Since a lot of people hearken back to old days and like flanking, the DMG has the rules for facing right next to it, to help create balance.

Then again....flanking gives advantage applies to everyone. Group of goblins can flank the PCs just as easily as the PCs can flank a owlbear.

[Kryx]

I would advice against giving advantage for flanking. See this thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384713-House-rule-granting-advantage-to-all-flanking-creatures.

I use their advice and give +1 to hit for flanking. It's nice, but not essential.