Druid Wild shape

[evilserran]

Hi. I'm not sure if there is a post regarding this somewhere, but i was unable to find anything that clarifies the Wild shape for me exactly in pathfinder. I am considering making a druid in PFS but need to understand this first.

What animal exactly can i turn into at which level? For example, if i am a dragon shaman i can take on lizard forms, but which ones? I mean a Roc or Golden Eagle creature is definatly too strong as a level 5 i would guess, but a small monitor lizard would likewise be nigh useless. Is the CR = to level or something? As a dragon shaman it states when taking lizard forms, i am treated as an unmodified druid level, telling me there is a penalty normally as to which animals i can turn into. I have perusedthe forums, my book, the beastiary and the DM guide, is there an easy "how to list" or can someone explain this to me in stupid speech, i seem to have failed my linguistics.

[Jeraa]

Wild Shape works as the various polymorph-type spells, such as Beast Shape I. As your level increases, your wild shape can function as different spells (check the description in the druid class). Check each spell to see what forms are possible.

For example, Beast Shape I says:

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type.

[evilserran]

Wild Shape (Su)

At 6th level, a dragon shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 4. If she takes on the form of a lizard, she instead uses her unmodified druid level.

^ this is specificaLLY what i am wondering about. Does this mean the archtype is slower at transforiming into other creature types? If so it doesnt seem like a benefit, as muchas a hindrance.

[Renen]

Perhaps it is meant to be one. To counter balance other things you get.

[daryen]

Good Lord, that is horribly written!

My guess as to what it is *trying* to say is:
- You don't gain Wildshape until 6th level.
- When you change into a lizard of some kind, you have the wildshape abilities matching your level. So, for 6th level, that means you can change into a tiny, small, medium, or large lizard as defined by Beast Shape II.
- When you change into something other than a lizard, you use your level - 4. This means at 6th level, you can't change into something that isn't a lizard. At 8th level, you can change into a small or medium sized creature as defined by Beast Shape I (what a normal druid can do at 4th level).

So, it basically means you wait two levels to get Wildshape and then you will pretty much only turn into lizards and *can't* turn into anything else until 8th level.

Pretty bizarre (as compared to the other shaman variants that delay Wildshape until 6th level), but that is what it pretty much means.

[evilserran]

Ah okay, thanks Daryen, much more understandable, and yea, seems kinda bad i guess for PFS, means you dont really get to do much then wiggle fingers until level 6 :(

[evilserran]

oh and for the actual shapechange, i know polymorph and what not got a work over, when you become an animal, correct me if i am wrong, but you keep your own hp, but gain their str/dex/con scores for the duration of the change, right?

[phlidwsn]

oh and for the actual shapechange, i know polymorph and what not got a work over, when you become an animal, correct me if i am wrong, but you keep your own hp, but gain their str/dex/con scores for the duration of the change, right?

Nope, you get the benefits listed in the Wildshape and Beast Shape descriptions only. So you keep your str/dex/con and get +2 dex and +1 NA if you go small, +2 str and +1 NA if you go med (for Beast Shape I) plus any of the qualities listed if the target shape has them.

Its a intentional nerf from 3.5, with the intent of keeping you from just dumping your physical stats, as well as to limit the pool of monster abilities you can end up with, so that each monster doesn't need to be written with the question "Will polymorph/wildshape break the game with this creature?"

[daryen]

To echo phlidwsn's comments, carefully read Beast Shape I, II, and III, as they define what you can and cannot do. Just remember that for lizards, use the Beast Shape appropriate for your level, and use the Beast Shape appropriate for four levels behind you for everything else.

So, again, when you use a lizard's shape at 6th level, you will be able to be a large lizard, not just a small or medium lizard. (Meaning you can be a crocodile or giant frilled lizard, in addition to just a monitor lizard.) Or you can be some kind of tiny lizard for scouting or whatnot.

[goto124]

Or you can be some kind of tiny lizard for scouting or whatnot.

Try not to get chased by crows. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html)

[Psyren]

You can turn into any printed lizard - the only restriction on each tier of wild shape (i.e. each tier of the beast shape or other polymorphing spell it is based on) is the size of the chosen creature. So at 6th level you can turn into any lizard from Tiny to Large (as BS2). The -4 seems to mean that you cannot turn into any non-lizards initially at all - you function as a 2nd-level druid there, and 2nd-level druids don't have wild shape.

In general, Dragon Shaman is far too weak. I think the intent (based on the fluff blurb) was for it to actually gain the ability to summon and/or turn into dragons later on, but this does not seem to have made it to the finished product. As a result, it is basically just a "Lizard Shaman" instead, and there just aren't enough lizards out there to justify the crunch beating that the DS is taking. If you must have a scaly theme for your druid, go with Saurian instead - they can shape into and summon any reptile (which means they get all the lizards that the "DS" gets, plus the much more combat-capable suite of dinosaurs and snakes on top of that, and smaller penalties for non-reptile forms), and if your DM squints with you they may even get wyverns or dragons too if those can be considered "reptiles."

If you must use Dragon Shaman, plead with your DM to let them wild shape into dragons later (using the form of the dragon line of spells for balance purposes) and if he says no, I would dump the whole idea. And if this is for PFS, just plain avoid it.

[evilserran]

hmm all very good points, and suggestions guys, i thank you all for up to this point. So lets say i go the saurian route as previously mentioned, with the near use all of ability scores to cast and fight, whats your suggested best array of pts/race based on current PFS rules?

[Psyren]

Race is entirely up to you. You can't go wrong with Human, Dwarf or Half-Orc, but any of them will do the trick. You can also be a small race without too much trouble since you'll be shapeshifting to fight, making them a bit more viable in melee than they would be with most standard melee builds. (However, most small races do take a minor Strength hit, which will make you a little physically weaker than you otherwise would be.) Finally, note that in addition to the core (CRB) races, you can now also play as a nagaji, tengu, kitsune or wayang without needing a Chronicle to do so. The Tengu's Dex and Wis bonuses make them attractive, as do the Nagaji's Strength/Perception bonuses and thematic tie-in to your concept.

PFS uses 20 point buy, with a minimum of 7 (5 after racial penalties), and a maximum of 18 (20 after racial bonuses) to any one score. You'll probably want 14-16 in your Str and Wis scores, then whatever you can get in the rest; dump Cha, and while dumping Int is never something I like to do, you probably won't need more than a 10.

One possible array from this would be: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7, stat increases to Str.

[evilserran]

Thanks a bunch everyone :) that concludes my questions :)