Needing some assistance.

[ithoughtso]

I have a brand new character to create, in 3.5, with the ECL being 16, and I have absolutely nothing but the stat rolls to go by in my decision. I am not allowed to do an artificer, and I'm not necessarily wanting to do a tier 1. I don't want to outshine the rest of the party. As far as I'm aware, other than the artificer, there aren't many restrictions. Any suggestions would be nice.

[Fallenreality]

You haven't given too much information to go by, would you be willing to post your stats and say a bit more about what you enjoy playing?

[ithoughtso]

Sorry, I have the rolls, and the reason I didn't give much other than preferably not Tier 1, is because I'm up for playing pretty much everything. My rolls were 11, 17, 18, 14, 16, 17

[Fallenreality]

Those... Are excellent stats.

Okay, if you don't have a preference, do you have any ideas what the other people will be playing? That might help narrow down some options for you.

[ithoughtso]

We have a rune-scarred barbarian who got bit by a were-tortoise, a vampire shadowdancer with a sentient weapon, and someone who is constantly shapeshifting and adapting powers from the monsters he shifts into. Our DM also has a half dragon drow scout who is around for when he wants to play a PC as well as DM.

[Fallenreality]

We have a rune-scarred barbarian who got bit by a were-tortoise, a vampire shadowdancer with a sentient weapon, and someone who is constantly shapeshifting and adapting powers from the monsters he shifts into. Our DM also has a half dragon drow scout who is around for when he wants to play a PC as well as DM.

Okay, looks solid. You have a few options. You appear to have skillmonkeying covered, along with front line combat. I'm personally fond of a good support. You could also use a party face if you don't mind diplomacy.

Choices that I like:
Factotum: If you can't decide what to do, do everything. Not really needed as you have people for skills already. For more fun add on the Chameleon Prestige class, which is completely unneeded but so much fun.
Bard: You can do some really fun things with this class. If your group is higher op you can get some really silly numbers onto Inspire Courage. Good party face, healing, and illusion spells.
Warlock: Can do similar magic item shenanigans as an Artificer, not nearly as many, but pretty fun/useful. Can make a good face, invocations are a fun system. When in doubt I often pick this for my 3.5 characters. Able to be made into a very solid damage dealer as well.
Binder: Another class that can be built to do anything. You can honestly swap your role up every day by binding different spirits.
Beguiler: Amazing party face. Illusion and Enchantment focus. Not much needs to be said about this one. Fits a controlling caster and party face so worth taking a look at based on your party.

Edit:
Just a fair warning, I love illusion spells. Be careful with DMs involving illusion shenanigans. Some allow them, some don't.

[ithoughtso]

My DM is fairly relaxed. So that's some suggestions for classes, now I need some suggestions for race.

[Hiro Quester]

Decide ona class first. Then pick a race that complements it. E.g. One without a penalty to your main stat.

With those stats you could have fun with some MAD classes.

I'd second bard in particular. Or bard8/sublime chord2/virtuoso 10 for extra fun. This can be a very effective support buffer character, but with full casting and decent melee. Take advantage of those high stats, but be overpowered at making others good at what they do. The rest of the party will thank you for the inspire courage boosts.

A race with draconic heritage for Dragonfire inspiration if you really want to empower the others.

You can have high cha, great dex, con and decent str. Put the 11in wis, and 14 in int for skills.

[Fallenreality]

The stats are why I suggested Warlock too. High Charisma for his invocations, then you put another high stat into your dex for eldritch blast aiming. Then you can put the other into your Con.

Warlock 16/Binder 1/ Hellfire Warlock 3 is a very solid blaster. The level of binder is to take one of the level 1 vestiges that allow you to fast heal ability damage. This negates the problem of Hellfire Warlock. The best part is that you only need the +3 or so in your eldritch blast because it targets touch AC.

[ithoughtso]

Our vampire is kind of our face, since he dominates everyone who doesn't do as we say. A support role would probably be ideal. If you guys have the source books for those classes you've mentioned, it'd be nice, so I can take look at them. Bard is obviously from the PHB.

[Fallenreality]

Bard would be an excellent choice for support, as well as being a backup party face.

Factotum can do anything really, I believe it is found in Dungeonscape.

[ithoughtso]

Just went and looked at factotum, he seems interesting enough, but the variety is much too broad. A little focus is nice.

I read up on Bards, they look fun. Now I want to give that a go.

[Fallenreality]

Bards are good fun. You can find many threads on this forum telling you how to optimize them to varying degrees. The most extreme being a +4 inspire courage by level 4, which grows into a +14 inspire courage by level 20. You can then also take feats to turn the attack and damage buff into d6s of fire damage.

[ithoughtso]

I'm bouncing around threads reading up, can't find a specific build I want try. The majority I look at start talking at level 20. Not what you should be doing up until then, and I have an ECL of 16.

[Spore]

Sorry for hijacking and derailing your thread quite a bit butam I the only one that doesn't feel the slightest need or reason for the existance of a


were-tortoise ?

I get that you somehow want to shoehorn in a "Ninja Turtle" but aren't there enough amphibian races that are more elegant?

Ignore my rant if you're not concerned with it and continue to grant OP his bardic goodness.

[ithoughtso]

Sorry for hijacking and derailing your thread quite a bit butam I the only one that doesn't feel the slightest need or reason for the existance of a

?

I get that you somehow want to shoehorn in a "Ninja Turtle" but aren't there enough amphibian races that are more elegant?

Ignore my rant if you're not concerned with it and continue to grant OP his bardic goodness.

We're in the underdark, and it has a burrow speed, he was given 16 natural armor, gets a special ability called lightning strike which gives him a surprise round every combat. He got a massive boost to strength, a +8 as well as a +12 to constitution.
My original character was the were tortoise that bit him, but he had a huge level adjustment and it impacted him out of combat, with not being able to contribute.

[Fallenreality]

We're in the underdark, and it has a burrow speed, he was given 16 natural armor, gets a special ability called lightning strike which gives him a surprise round every combat. He got a massive boost to strength, a +8 as well as a +12 to constitution.

What's the level adjustment on that? And I gather it's safe to assume your DM and fellow players are fine with optimization?

[ithoughtso]

It was 7, had we not nerfed it, that would have been 13. We homebrewed it from Sandstorm, and nah, we don't really have issues with optimization.

[ithoughtso]

Definitely doing bard, and I wanna optimize that inspire courage. Let's make my party unstoppable. I'll also take over being the face.

[Fallenreality]

mmmk, the obvious places to start are Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, and of course Words of Creation. Keep in mind Words of Creation is an exalted thing, and thus restricts your alignment options a bit. It does double your inspire courage however.

Prestige wise, I enjoy Seeker of the Song.

It allows you to play two pieces of bardic music at the same time. Which means you can Inspire Courage AND use your Dragonfire Inspiration. Possibly make yourself a half dragon so you have a better energy type than fire for your Dragonfire Inspiration (I suggest sonic damage)

If you have a REALLY nice DM. You can take Warchanter levels as well. They get the same combine songs ability as Seeker of the Song, which means if your DM is nice you can play 3 pieces of music at once.

[ithoughtso]

We've already had a warchanter before, however he took gimp rolls, and also chose to be a child as well. Which hindered us, because the only person we had who would pay the child any heed was our tank/psuedo healer.

[Fallenreality]

Warchanter isn't really needed for the build honestly. I would suggest taking 2 levels of Seeker of the Song and then just keep going with Bard to keep your casting progession. Sing your Dragonfire Inspiration and Inspire Courage at the same time for good bonuses.

I would still recommend the Draconic Heritage Feat, or Half Dragon template to get a different energy type than fire for your Dragonfire Inspiration.

[ithoughtso]

I was hoping to find something with sonic damage. As I don't know of many mobs that would have immunities to that. As well, as I don't know what race I should bundle with the half dragon template.
Edit.
I may just go with a silverbrow human, they seem fairly sturdy. Or the gnome version.