Creating Magical Items Questions

[Dizlag]

So, I've got a few questions about creating magical items and wanted to get clarity / explanations about them here.

1) Adamantine Armor / Mithril Armor are "magical items", but would you require a character proficient in blacksmithing to be a spell caster with spell slots? Would you add the cost of this uncommon magical item to the cost of the armor? For instance, would that adamantine full plate mail be 2000 gp or 500 gp (the cost of an uncommon magic item)?

2) Why does it cost 100 gp to make a potion of healing in the DMG, but you can buy it for 50 gp in the PHB? Seems counter-intuitive to me or is it to discourage MagicMarts? What have you done to "fix" the pricing of these consumables, because 50000gp seems a bit steep for a 10d4 + 20 healing potion I will use once?

3) Would you let a non-caster character who has chosen the Magical Initiate feat to create magical items? How about the Ritual Caster feat?

Thanks!

Dizlag

[Felvion]

1) I'd add the cost to the normal price. I would personally make the price scale by just doubling the base cost for each armor or something like that when maths don't convince me enough.

2) I make them cost 25-50 depending on the campaign.
The cost for crafting is the same or halved if the "ingredients" are in-game acquired. The last one is a general rule i use and depending on the campaign/character/ingredient acquired the cost percentage changes.
For example if a ranger uncovers a rare plant known for medicinal properties i'd let him create a potion of lesser restoration for free. A barbarian that had just slain a dragon could get a dragon scail mail for free if he handed the crafter the spare scales.
Speaking of cost i prefer to adjust the value of some items. I take the value range on page 135 from DMG. I roll a d20 and adjust the cost between the range. For example, for an uncommon item (value ranged between 100 and 500) if i roll 1 it means 100 gp and on a 20 it's 500 gp. This way it seems more realistic to me. Additionally, there are times i adjust the price of some items according to what i believe is better. I mean you can easily see that not all items of the same rarity are of the same value.

3) Both yes but with many restrictions. A magic initiate caster could craft only uncommon items related to his only spell (plus +1 weapons and shields in some cases, especially if there are roleplaying reasons to do so) but slightly slower than an original caster.
As for the ritual caster, i'd only let him create stuff based on his spells and nothing more. I can't think of a way a ritual caster could craft +1/2/3 stuff but still it's very situational.
Crucial ingredients (such as the aforementioned dragon scales) can turn some odds towards the player as it's much better to craft some really personal stuff by yourself.

Ps: I'm currently afb and not aware if there are rules in the dmg pointing i'm wrong in anything from the above but this is my point of view in terms of crafting and how i personally run my games.

[SharkForce]

the existing system is not great.

i would recommend you adopt the following system instead:

make up whatever you want, and then use that.

[BigONotation]

the existing system is not great.

i would recommend you adopt the following system instead:

make up whatever you want, and then use that.

So much this. I find it silly that one has to be a caster to create magical items. I do not find it silly that a caster would be involved in the enchanting. I'd be happy to allow players to craft magic items if they know or can find :


how to craft it
someone who can craft it
someone who can enchant it
all the materials necessary to craft it
fees to the crafters (smith, mage, cleric, etc)


Those are daunting enough that if they can achieve the above they are free to craft anything they want. For instance, creating a "Longsword +1, Flame Tongue 1d6" is going to take some incredible materials in my campaign. I could imagine having to craft the weapon in a volcanic forge using mithril in the hands of a masterwork weaponsmith that knows how to work mithril, the aid of a fire specialist enchanter whom has been given all the correct materials to enchant the weapon before it cools from the smithing process, and the adventurers guarding them while they completed the process. I could also see the crafters/enchanters demanding exorbitant sums or magical items as payment.

[kaoskonfety]

1) I'd assign the magic item creation price (500gp) to taking adamantine or mithril they currently have found/mined/stolen and making this into the armor/weapon they want (rare fuel for the forge, damage to the forge over months of dangerous heat, prayers to the powers that be, magical reagents etc.). Saying that they spent "only 500gp" on a suit of magic armor where a knight needs to spend 1500gp on "plain old armor" (750gp if making it and buying the materials) makes a small insult to whatever hell your players went though to get 70ish lbs of adamantine/mithril/whatever. Balrogs come to mind.

2) no real comment on the healing potion situation the rules for this looked a bit off - we decided any herbalist (spellcaster or no) can make them using the mundane creation rules on the PHB - 10 days, 25 gp? something like that, it is rare the group has more than 2 weeks down time (1 potion per herbalist who did nothing much else) - I've been advised this is wrong but it seems to be ok for general play at our table. No one does it once you start to level anyway - you have other, better, things to do with down time and gold to spare if you "need" them

3) I allow it but they would also need the tool proficiency to make the items mundane portion "from scratch" - it adds flavour if the ritual casting barbarian spends months of prayer/chanting in their home villages forge to create their weapon of power (after appropriate questing for exotic ingredient(s), obscure rituals and burning stones) rather than getting an NPC and/or the wizard to do it.

Side note/not how I run it:
- As written it appears you need spell slots specifically - this is only gained from class features - so as I understand it, the 2 feats (ritual casting and magic initiate) give limited access to cast spells, but no spell slots. So no making cool toys with JUST these feats, as written.

But then again I've been playing since first ed. so 'rules as written' doesn't really grasp me too firmly.

[Pex]

So much this. I find it silly that one has to be a caster to create magical items. I do not find it silly that a caster would be involved in the enchanting. I'd be happy to allow players to craft magic items if they know or can find :


how to craft it
someone who can craft it
someone who can enchant it
all the materials necessary to craft it
fees to the crafters (smith, mage, cleric, etc)


Those are daunting enough that if they can achieve the above they are free to craft anything they want. For instance, creating a "Longsword +1, Flame Tongue 1d6" is going to take some incredible materials in my campaign. I could imagine having to craft the weapon in a volcanic forge using mithril in the hands of a masterwork weaponsmith that knows how to work mithril, the aid of a fire specialist enchanter whom has been given all the correct materials to enchant the weapon before it cools from the smithing process, and the adventurers guarding them while they completed the process. I could also see the crafters/enchanters demanding exorbitant sums or magical items as payment.

If you're going to make it so difficult to craft an item then you're better off just admitting you don't want players to craft items instead of saying technically they can.

5E went overboard in regards to crafting items. People yelled so much how easy it was in 3E they made it practically impossible in 5E because for whatever reason they just could not outright forbid it. Given how precious feats are they could still have made it a feat. Instead of generic pay gold pieces for ingredients as in 3E, it's ok to go back to the 2E method of requiring specific components. Provide the DM with ideas and examples. A red or gold dragon's claw for a ring of fire resistance for example, or anything with fire resistance or immunity. Jokes were made in 2E of adventurers carving up monsters for bodyparts to sell to wizard guilds. Beholder eyestalks were a common theme. Don't have it take a decade and a day to make an item, but a week to a month is fine to ensure it can only really be done in downtime. A significant gold piece cost is necessary too, but it should not cost three life's savings to put you in the poor house.

[BigONotation]

If you're going to make it so difficult to craft an item then you're better off just admitting you don't want players to craft items instead of saying technically they can.

5E went overboard in regards to crafting items. People yelled so much how easy it was in 3E they made it practically impossible in 5E because for whatever reason they just could not outright forbid it. Given how precious feats are they could still have made it a feat. Instead of generic pay gold pieces for ingredients as in 3E, it's ok to go back to the 2E method of requiring specific components. Provide the DM with ideas and examples. A red or gold dragon's claw for a ring of fire resistance for example, or anything with fire resistance or immunity. Jokes were made in 2E of adventurers carving up monsters for bodyparts to sell to wizard guilds. Beholder eyestalks were a common theme. Don't have it take a decade and a day to make an item, but a week to a month is fine to ensure it can only really be done in downtime. A significant gold piece cost is necessary too, but it should not cost three life's savings to put you in the poor house.

I am actually a huge proponent of item creation, however I want it to be meaningful and come at a cost. I also really like adventurers caring to carve up that rare resource, be it monster, ore, plant, or other. Perhaps my example was a bit overboard on the requirements front, but I don't want Joe the Wizard to be able to create a Staff of Defense on his Saturdays off in his garage with a hammer, string, and a few glass baubles.