Rise of The Runelords (RotRL) Converted to D&D 5e (WIP)

[Kryx]

I've been working on converting Rise of the Runelords to use 5e.

Google doc: Rise of the Runelords 5e conversion (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kloyX_I_8wP9WGzwzKj-tJMh-TfyGcotrIu7xuHUjF8/edit#)

Currently done:


Book 1
All DCs, all Treasure, all magic items, and all monsters


Book 2
All DCs, all Treasure, all magic items, all haunts, and all monsters


Book 3
All Treasure, most magic items


For monsters I tried to use as many monsters or stat blocks from the MM as possible. If not available I made the monster and listed my sources of reference.
For the DCs I've listed my methodology.
For the treasure I used Deconstructing 5e: Typical wealth by level (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) as my baseline and modified the treasure based on it.

I would love any discussion around the DC/Treasure methodology, or any discussion around individual monsters. I would also appreciate any help if anyone else wants to join in on the project.

I will post here when I make major updates.

I have also posted this to Reddit DnDNext (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2rinj5/rise_of_the_runelords_converted_to_5e_wip/) if you wish to see any of the conversation there.

[DanyBallon]

I'll definitely keep an eye on your conversion as I'm trying to convert Kingmaker :D

As for the DC I've been assigning DC as I feel, but I like the idea to use a factor to adjust the DC. But I not quite sure if I would allow to much DC going over 20 unless it is really justified to do so... Maybe for DC from 15 to 22 I would use a .9 factor rounded down, and for DC from 23 to 30 I'd a .85 factor rounded down, etc.

[eastmabl]

Deconstructing 5e: Typical wealth by level (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) as my baseline and modified the treasure based on it.

I like this a lot. Thanks!

[Kryx]

As for the DC I've been assigning DC as I feel, but I like the idea to use a factor to adjust the DC. But I not quite sure if I would allow to much DC going over 20 unless it is really justified to do so... Maybe for DC from 15 to 22 I would use a .9 factor rounded down, and for DC from 23 to 30 I'd a .85 factor rounded down, etc.

I think you're partially right. The DCs in some cases are too high - more on that in a sec.
The scale does definitely go above 20:


Very Easy
5


Easy
10


Medium
15


Hard
20


Very Hard
25


Nearly Impossible
30



However I think my understanding was wrong when I did the DCs. To compare systems, lets take Perception for example (taking the maximum w/o traits/feats):


Level
Pathfinder
5e


1
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 17
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


2
10 + 3(wis) + 2(rank) + 3(class skill) = 18
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


3
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 19
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


4
10 + 4(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 21
10 + 4(wis) + 2(prof) = 16


5
10 + 4(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 22
10 + 4(wis) + 3(prof) = 17



So I need to adjust all of the DCs a bit more harshly. However I need to keep in mind that some early PF stuff isn't meant to be easy either.
The main issue of converting DCs is that they scale in PF - so tier 1-5 needs a separate modifier from tier 6-10, 11-15, and 16-20. Pathfinder has the treadmill and 5e does not.
However when working on a tier I don't think the scale should change based on the DC level - just use the same scale and it should reflect what the devs had in mind. The scale needs to be determined if you see that they are turning on the treadmill. If Paizo isn't then don't adjust the scale as much.

I'll go back and modify the DCs tonight or tomorrow - I'll probably put them into an excel so they're easy to modify like I did with the treasure.


Magic Items: I'm still unsure how to do magical items. I have a bunch of resources on hand. I want to avoid giving out +1 magic items. I also am timid of wands - though I could maybe give them using the one time use variant and about half or a quarter of the charges.

[DanyBallon]

I think you're partially right. The DCs in some cases are too high - more on that in a sec.
The scale definitely goes above 20:


Very Easy
5


Easy
10


Medium
15


Hard
20


Very Hard
25


Nearly Impossible
30



However I think my understanding was wrong when I did the DCs. To compare systems, lets take Perception for example (taking the maximum w/o traits/feats):


Level
Pathfinder
5e


1
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 17
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


2
10 + 3(wis) + 2(rank) + 3(class skill) = 18
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


3
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 19
10 + 3(wis) + 2(prof) = 15


4
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 20
10 + 4(wis) + 2(prof) = 16


5
10 + 3(wis) + 1(rank) + 3(class skill) = 21
10 + 4(wis) + 3(prof) = 17



So I need to adjust all of the DCs a bit more harshly. However I need to keep in mind that some early PF stuff isn't meant to be easy either.
The main issue of converting DCs is that they scale in PF - so tier 1-5 needs a separate modifier from tier 6-10, 11-15, and 16-20. Pathfinder has the treadmill and 5e does not.

I'll go back and modify the DCs tonight or tomorrow - I'll probably put them into an excel so they're easy to modify like I did with the treasure.

Don't worry too much, you are already pretty much spot on, we just need to bring those DCs ranging from 20 to 25 closer to 18-20 for level 1-5 then those reaching 30 closer 22-25 for level 5-10 etc. until we get those almost impossible DCs of 50+ close the the 5e impossible DC of 30. This may not be linear though...

[Kryx]

This may not be linear though...

It's definitely not a linear comparison. PF scales at least 1 per level, with an additional 1 possibly every 4 levels from stats. Not to mention traits or feats.
5e has bounded accuracy where it changes much less.

This is why I mentioned the treadmill earlier. And why the modifying factor for DCs needs to adjust per tier.

[DanyBallon]

Ok, I get it now, I was to much focused to try to get a nice formula taht would work from level 1 to 20 that I forgot that we could adjust the DC per level tier :)

As for magic items, I try to keep one once in a while, especially if they are some kind of unique. Otherwise I'm thinking into bringing back MW weapons which would give a single +1 to damage, and/or silvered/adamantine to replace most of the +1 and +2 weapons. I still don't know how to adjust magical armor. The only one I had to give so far, I just made it a really good crafted armor that it's worth twice as much and sell for almost the cost price due to fine craftsmanship.

[Kryx]

I applied a new formula for DCs. Book 1 is 0.85. Book 2 is 0.8. It's better - though not perfect (I tried removing 2 and then using a multiplier, but that just hurt lower DCs).

You can see it on the 5e Rise of the Runelords Treasure & DC Converter (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RlmRiG4AfvMwJW7Cwvt7kFw-PmNgePzUNq2UT-avna0/edit#gid=510176480) document that is also linked in the main google doc.

[Feldarove]

I don't have anything to add.

But you are doing a fantastic job so far. That google Doc is amazing! Good Work!

[DanyBallon]

I applied a new formula for DCs. Book 1 is 0.85. Book 2 is 0.8. It's better - though not perfect (I tried removing 2 and then using a multiplier, but that just hurt lower DCs).

You can see it on the 5e Rise of the Runelords Treasure & DC Converter (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RlmRiG4AfvMwJW7Cwvt7kFw-PmNgePzUNq2UT-avna0/edit#gid=510176480) document that is also linked in the main google doc.

I copied your data in an excel spreadsheet and run with round down and the this allow to get book 2 DC 30 drop to DC 24 instead of 26. But this also cause all DC 15 and lower to drop even lower :S I believe your solution is the most simple and elegant to use :)

[Kryx]

Update: I've used a new DC formula based on the formula discussion on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2rinj5/rise_of_the_runelords_converted_to_5e_wip/cngkrhl). It seems quite accurate. (DC-5)×0.75+5

I've also done all the treasure for book 1 and 2. I've kept nearly all the scrolls and wands (reduced wands charges down to 1/2 the original). I kept some magic items that already exist in 5e. I'd like to convert a few more.

My gold value is quite short: Maybe I should let the PCs take some of the evil magic items and sell them to the clerics in Magnimar as is suggested in the book for extra gold. I kept all PF gold values as 100% of the orig value and am still quite short of expected. 6,566 gold value and 2,207 in consumable value. It should be around 12300 apparently.

Any help converting items is appreciated. :)
See the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RlmRiG4AfvMwJW7Cwvt7kFw-PmNgePzUNq2UT-avna0/edit#gid=1876377745) if you want to see all the loot.

[DanyBallon]

Last night I built a spreadsheet split between tier of play and assigned different factor value for each (0.85 for level 1-5; 0.80 for level 6-10; 0.75 for level 11-15; and 0.70 for level 16-20), keeping DC 1 to 10 as is, and adding a condition that the round down value can't be lower that the previous value (this prevent having a DC 10 converted as 10 and a DC 12 converted as 9).

But the (DC-5)x 0.75+5 formula you used seems to be a real nice formula that cover almost all the checks needed :)

As for treasure, I've looked through your changes and I would have done pretty much the same. Converting potions and rings if the spell exist in 5e, otherwise remove the item. Like I said before, I might convert some +1 weapons as silver, adamantine or MW (+1 to dmg).


Excellent work by the way :)

[Kryx]

Book 1 & 2 technically done
I'm sure I'll revise some, but all of it should be playable.

Treasure: I finished the treasure and after putting in evil magic items that are assumed to be sold for 75% of PF value to good clerics in Magnimar the gold is spot on at 12,341 each compared to an expected 12,300 each. There is also 2,282 each in consumables. These values are with 5 players. You can adjust the sell price down to 50% for 4 players and you'll be around 13,000.
These values will probably change as I do the later books and try to keep it in line with the table I reference.

Magic Items: I finished porting any of the magic items that seemed relevant. I avoided bringing any of the +1 "math fix" items over. I tried to come up with some flavorful uncommon weapons/armor, but was unable to find anything in the DMG. I will search homebrew stuff later.

Monsters: I finished the Skinsaw Man, Faceless Stalkers, Ironbriar, and Xanesha. I would really appreciate it if anyone gave those a look over. Especially the last 2. I'm wildly guessing CR. Any help in this area would be great.

I'm gone the next few days, so updates will stop for a few days, but I'll try to be active here if anyone responds.

[Kryx]

Treasure for book 3 is done. The magic items are getting harder to convert - it's hard for me to determine how much is too much. Mostly have issues with +1 armor/weapons as there is nothing interesting in 5e that isn't just +1.

I've laid out the monsters for book 3 - it's going to be a lot of work. I'll probably wait until I finish book 1.

[GunnerMcGrath]

Treasure for book 3 is done. The magic items are getting harder to convert - it's hard for me to determine how much is too much. Mostly have issues with +1 armor/weapons as there is nothing interesting in 5e that isn't just +1.

Some ideas for armor from the DMG, these are uncommon items, more common than +1 armor:

Adamantine Armor - critical hits become normal hits

Mithral Armor - does not impose disadvantage on stealth rolls and has no strength requirement

Mariner's Armor - gives you swimming speed equal to walking speed and raises you to the surface if underwater with 0 HP.

Sentinel Shield - gives advantage on initiative and perception rolls

+1 Shield - same bonus as +1 armor but more common, slightly less rewarding as it requires use of one hand, though it can be used by anyone proficient in shield regardless of what armor they have

There are some uncommon magic weapons too in addition to +1 items, you can also use silvered weapons which are more useful than a standard weapon but not magical.

For ease finding this stuff, check out http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/ and choose Uncommon rarity. There are a lot of uncommon wondrous items you could use to replace standard weapons and armor.

I haven't done a lot of conversion myself but yeah I'd say that in 5e, anything the module gives with a +1 just use silvered or adamantine or maybe just make it a normal weapon with a jewel inlaid or something, higher value and better appearance than normal but no special properties.

[Inchoroi]

You're actually a little bit ahead of me. I moved across country (long story), so didn't get much work done. My conversion is a bit more fast and loose, but I'm going to steal a few monsters from your conversion right away. I will also steal the games for the festival, because my group likes sandbox-y shenanigans. I'll have more comments later on tomorrow, need to head to bed.

[Kryx]

Status: I moved as well so I haven't done any major work in a few weeks.

My players just reached Thistletop so we're moving along. I've made some minor adjustments here and there along the way. I downgraded Tsuto from where I had him initially (so 2-3 attacks instead of 3-4) and lowered his atk by 1.


Book 1 and 2 have been done completely, treasure for book 3 has been done. I'll likely start converting book 3's monsters in a month or so after I prep book 2 on roll20. I'll probably split out the doc into 3 sections: book 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 as it's getting quite laggy with 1&2.

I have a doc on Sandpoint's buildings and rumors (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TfAd8X3Oivl-aUKgb3enqKvpSnpJ7hb9Zlj69Bf-P3g/edit?usp=sharing) if it helps anyone else.

[leomatheus]

Many many thanks for sharing your files. I just started playing RotRL with 5e and your notes are a blessing!

[calebrus]

I know I'm late to the conversation here, but DCs don't scale.
When the trap is placed, or the difficulty is assigned, all you have to do is think about what a normal person with a modest level of skill would consider the task.

If that person would consider it easy, the DC is 10. If that person would consider it very difficult, the DC is 25.
It doesn't matter if your PCs are level 3 or level 19.
For a conversion, all you have to do is compare the DC in the book to the average (!!! - non-optimized) skill level of a character of the appropriate level. That will tell you how easy/hard the DC should be.

[Kryx]

I know I'm late to the conversation here, but DCs don't scale.
The math used is meant to remove the scaling from Pathfinder. I discussed it heavily with a guy on the reddit thread (I just used what he suggested mostly). The initial source of the formula is out there somewhere.

[Kryx]

Bad news: My party and I decided to switch to Skull & Shackles.

I will stop an future development on RotRL conversion and switch over to converting S&S in the same format as used here. I'll make a thread for it as well.

If anyone wants to take over the RotRL work please let me know and I can give you access to the doc so you can copy it and I can direct all users there.

[Inchoroi]

Bad news: My party and I decided to switch to Skull & Shackles.

I will stop an future development on RotRL conversion and switch over to converting S&S in the same format as used here. I'll make a thread for it as well.

If anyone wants to take over the RotRL work please let me know and I can give you access to the doc so you can copy it and I can direct all users there.

A friend wants to run Skull and Shackles in 5e; did you ever get this going?

[Kryx]

I have done up to the end of book 2, ya. I need to verify the conversion with my pf -> 5e converter that I posted a bit ago.

I can post it early next week or send you what I have for now.

[JericM]

Any updates on your conversion yet? This conversion guide is invaluable to a DM like me who has little time for preparation. I mostly wing it and it turns out OK but I'd like to have a firm grasp of any concrete conversion rules before I make Karzoug impossible lol ;)

[GoatToucher]

I'm interested as well. I'll be running Burnt Offerings in a couple weeks.

[Kryx]

We switched to Skull & Shackles instead.

But you can use http://marklenser.com/5econverter/ to convert most statblocks. Let me know if there are any issues with the converter.

EDIT: Edited the converter to automatically fix the more common formatting issues such as "1nt" instead of "Int" and added damage resistances.

[GreaterShrew]

This is the greatest and best resource I have found for converting RotR to 5e. Thank you all for every bit of work you've done. Thank you also for keeping that Google Doc around! You all are wonderful people!

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Runelords make poor necromancers.