[3.5] Quick question to know the right class to chose

[Isiloki]

Hey there!
For once it's not for me but for a fellow. He's a fighter level 6 but is bored with the fighter playstyle (It's our first campaign so we didn't know what to expect before going in). He still wants to be a melee class, but he wants to :

be able to do something else than hitting in fight (more than tripping, grappling etc)
be able to do something in the exploration phases
if he could still tank, that'd be perfect.

Long story short, he wants to be more than an intimidating tank with an axe.

Everything is allowed as long as it's not homebrew. He just died so he's allowed to recreated a character. He's not very into optimization, so if we could avoid multiclassing, it'd be cool (One prestige class is ok tho)

To give you the team composition, we have : Water Wu Jen, Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Paladin, and him. (all lvl 6)

Do you have any idea? Thanks for him.

[ComaVision]

Psychic Warrior?
Totemist?
Druid with Wildshape or Cleric focused on melee buffing himself?

There's honestly a massive amount of choices.

[Red Fel]

Hey there!
For once it's not for me but for a fellow. He's a fighter level 6 but is bored with the fighter playstyle (It's our first campaign so we didn't know what to expect before going in). He still wants to be a melee class, but he wants to :

be able to do something else than hitting in fight (more than tripping, grappling etc)
be able to do something in the exploration phases
if he could still tank, that'd be perfect.

Long story short, he wants to be more than an intimidating tank with an axe.

Everything is allowed as long as it's not homebrew. He just died so he's allowed to recreated a character. He's not very into optimization, so if we could avoid multiclassing, it'd be cool (One prestige class is ok tho)

To give you the team composition, we have : Water Wu Jen, Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Paladin, and him. (all lvl 6)

Do you have any idea? Thanks for him.

I'd give him Warblade or Crusader from Tome of Battle. Crusader if he wants to emphasize the tanking, Warblade if he wants the versatility. Both are capable classes, and although their out-of-combat use is limited, the same is true for many non-casters. In combat, they can use the usual attack or trip/disarm/grapple stuff, or they can whip out maneuvers. They also have actual class abilities (unlike, say, Fighters). Best of all, the classes scale well, requiring no multiclassing or PrCing to be effective in later levels. They have a very high optimization floor, so even if he's not an optimizer, the classes work well.

Be aware that Crusader will likely embarrass the Paladin with his tanking, and make the Cleric uncomfortable with his efficient combat healing. And Warblade has the potential to out-DPS pretty much everyone other than the casters.

[defiantdan]

Have him play a druid. It doesn't take many feats and will give him a jack of all trades. He can scout, melee, fly, summon, blast, and battlefield control, all basically at a moments notice. Any of the druid handbooks online can help you with feat selection. Druid 20 is completely viable. Though it goes without saying Planar Shepard rocks. Either that or something from Tome of battle though it still mostly amounts to swinging a sword (in style).

[eggynack]

I agree, a warblade or a crusader would fulfill just about every requirement he has for a new class. You get a solid variety of options and abilities without really requiring too much in the way of optimization from the player. They're not the best at out of combat stuff, but even there they have significantly more to offer than their more mundane counterparts.

[Ketiara]

As some of the other have said, I think you have just described a crusader with a warblade dip, they have more skillpoints and diplomacy and intimidate for social skills.
I personally loved this build
Crusader16/war blade 4
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801

If he starts at lvl 6 he has 2 lvls to learn before taking his first lvl dip.
He will love it!

[redwizard007]

Fighter with a decent Int and some diverse skill choices, ranger, even 1-2 level dips in bard, rogue, or cleric... All could give a little more versatility without sacrificing too much combat effectiveness. The real question becomes how versatile does he want to be?

[lytokk]

I'd personally say ranger. Wildshape Ranger if the DM will allow it. The small ability to shift into some simple animals gives him a little more to do in combat, as well as some utility things when the situation calls for it. Regular ranger could get a little monotonous in terms of hitting things. With the ability to track and the skill points rangers get, he would be filling a small gap that's missing in the party without stepping on the toes of the cleric or paladin in terms of tankyness and healing.

I also believe there is a feat that can beef up the animal companion to be even with a druid companion. I forget what it is or where it was printed, and can't look it up anymore. If anyone else can remember, it was the feat that would allow you to add +3 to your effective druid level for animal companions, but couldnt go beyond your current hit die. I think it should work with rangers, but like I said, can't look it up right now.

[Xerlith]

I think you want a Crusader for him. Has some nice skills, a charisma-synergy, can really, really tank (oh boy, can it tank). Just pick the Devoted Spirit/White Raven maneuvers and go to town.
The maneuver granting thingy is confusing at first, but you get used to it really quickly.

[The Viscount]

More support for crusader or warblade. Crusader especially excels at tanking when focusing on Devoted Spirit. White Raven is a very powerful school, but a bit involved since it's about battlefield control. Stone Dragon generally deserves the criticism it gets, but there are a few worthwhile maneuvers. Most handbooks explain pretty well what to avoid, but it's generally hard to screw yourself with a Crusader, and it still feels very much like a warrior brute type, and not like a caster.

[ace rooster]

How about a swift hunter build (scout/ranger)? If you present it as a swift hunter, rather than either class individually, you might be able to convince them. Not as many hp as you might get, but with improved skirmish and a decent shield you can get an AC that is very respectable, while still being able to do decent damage. You can even throw stuff to do damage. If you have a generous DM they might rule that thrown items work like weaponlike spells, allowing you to add skirmish damage to things like alchemists fire and holy water. Take ranged combat as your combat style and you can be decent with a bow too.

While not a traditional tank, it does much of the function. Out of combat, the clue is in the name, but getting track from ranger is also nice.

[(Un)Inspired]

Hey there!
For once it's not for me but for a fellow. He's a fighter level 6 but is bored with the fighter playstyle (It's our first campaign so we didn't know what to expect before going in). He still wants to be a melee class, but he wants to :

be able to do something else than hitting in fight (more than tripping, grappling etc)
be able to do something in the exploration phases
if he could still tank, that'd be perfect.

Long story short, he wants to be more than an intimidating tank with an axe.

Everything is allowed as long as it's not homebrew. He just died so he's allowed to recreated a character. He's not very into optimization, so if we could avoid multiclassing, it'd be cool (One prestige class is ok tho)

To give you the team composition, we have : Water Wu Jen, Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Paladin, and him. (all lvl 6)

Do you have any idea? Thanks for him.

You say that he'd like to be able to do things in combat other than attack. You say that he would like to do things in the "exploration phase" as you call it.

What are these sorts of things that he'd like to do? There are many classes that can do many things other than attack but it's hard to suggest the right one for him if we don't have a more specific description of his desires.

[ericgrau]

Low cost utility magic items are a load of fun between fights.

[Darrin]

With the ability to track and the skill points rangers get, he would be filling a small gap that's missing in the party without stepping on the toes of the cleric or paladin in terms of tankyness and healing.


Another vote for Ranger. I'd suggest Ranger with the Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape), which covers the "Find Traps" part of Explore pretty well. I also like the Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion) instead of Wild Empathy. The Spiritual Guide ACF (same book) is also good for Ranger 20 skillmonkeys.



I also believe there is a feat that can beef up the animal companion to be even with a druid companion. I forget what it is or where it was printed, and can't look it up anymore. If anyone else can remember, it was the feat that would allow you to add +3 to your effective druid level for animal companions, but couldnt go beyond your current hit die. I think it should work with rangers, but like I said, can't look it up right now.

That's the "Natural Bond" feat (Complete Adventurer). It adds +3 effective Druid levels to determining your Animal Companion abilities, but unfortunately it doesn't fix the Ranger dividing his effective Druid levels in half.

The best way to get a more effective animal companion is to trade the Animal Companion in for an ACF (either Spiritual Guide from Complete Champion or Distracting Attack from PHBII) and take the Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat.

[Troacctid]

Consider Ironsoul Forgemaster. It's a strong melee-oriented class that's very tanky, but also has a lot of versatility out of combat due to meldshaping abilities that provide a wide variety of utility effects, including flight, short-range teleportation, skill boosts, extra vision modes, and other cool stuff like that. Obligatory link to Red Fel's handbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-%28WIP-PEACH%29)

[Chronos]

Another vote for ranger. Out of combat, they've got a great skill list for exploration, and the skill points to spend on it. In combat, they have most of the same options as fighters, plus a smattering of spells (including some quite nice ones like Entangle). Their spells also open up wand options, including the ever-useful Cure Light Wounds: Yeah, for practical purposes it doesn't matter much who wields the curestick, and it could also be the bard, cleric, or paladin, but it might help make him feel useful.

[Hunor]

My immediate thought on seeing the post was to say Crusader or Warblade as well, but for a new suggestion, perhaps a Daring Outlaw? If he is human and takes rogue at first level plus able learner, he can be a trapfinder forever. TWF and Travel Devotion for combat can be a lot of fun, as he can sneak attack like a full-class rogue, while having better BAB and (slightly) better hitpoints. Plus, he'll have free weapon finesse, and Int to damage, which can let him try a new route to semi-combat effectiveness.

Looking at your party, this might be a nice addition without stepping on toes quite so much as the Tome of Battle classes.

[Svata]

I will add my voice to the echoing cries of crusader. They are actually tanky, as they can force enemies into attacking them, and they have a fair number of different things they can do in combat.

[lytokk]

That's the "Natural Bond" feat (Complete Adventurer). It adds +3 effective Druid levels to determining your Animal Companion abilities, but unfortunately it doesn't fix the Ranger dividing his effective Druid levels in half.

The best way to get a more effective animal companion is to trade the Animal Companion in for an ACF (either Spiritual Guide from Complete Champion or Distracting Attack from PHBII) and take the Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat.

Thanks. I wasn't 100% on the way natural bond and Rangers interacted. Always meant to look it up but then I'd see something shiny.

Only reason I didn't suggest warblade or crusader is that ToB is one of the more commonly banned/unavailable books at tables. That and they had been suggested many times before.

[Sam K]

Another vote for crusader. You get actual choices in combat (beyond trip or grapple), great tanking and some utility. Your out-of-combat abilities are limited, though, but atleast you get some skillpoints. Stone dragon moves can also be used to... bypass obstacles (the way the Hulk would do it!)

While the other popular suggestion (ranger) does give some utility and exploration abilities, I don't see how it really adds more choices in combat(very dependant on full attacks, few selective use abilities), and it can't tank very well.

[Amphetryon]

Ranger or, if limited multiclassing is okay, Ranger/Scout with the Swift Hunter feat sounds like something he'd enjoy.

[Isiloki]

Thank you everyone, I've read everything and I transmitted, he'll surely go for warblade from what he's read.