bard creation.

[ithoughtso]

Looking to get a great build going for a bard, willing to have a +1 adjustment on the level, with the ECL of being 16 right now.
Source books would be nice to know as well, I have checked through a few bards handbooks but they aren't giving me any ideas. My rolls were 11, 17, 18, 14, 16, 17.
I don't want a build that is super game breaking.
Tome of Battle is not allowed. And no artificers in any way.

[Hiro Quester]

Get a race with + to CHA. Assimar, for example. Or Lesser assimar to avoid the +1LA. (+2 Cha +2 Wis.)

Check out bard8/Virtuoso1/sublime chord2/Virtuoso9 builds. There are plenty of guides that will give you ideas. Look harder.

As an alternative, I had a lot of fun with a Bard 10/Sublime chord2/Heartfire Fanner8

(HFF is from Dragon Mag 314, normally a 5 level PrC, but my DM let me work in its accompanying Fire-Souled template to make it a 8 level PrC. HFF uses barding music to give allies temporary fighter feats and free metamagics on spells.)

Also check out the many guides to optimizing Inspire Courage.

Those are some lucky rolls. Put the 18 into Cha (of course), 17 into Dex and Con, 16 into Str. 14 int and 11 wis.

[LoyalPaladin]

Looking to get a great build going for a bard, willing to have a +1 adjustment on the level, with the ECL of being 16 right now.
If you can use the LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), why not go with a half-fey (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/halffey.shtml) aasimar? That's +2 Dex, -2 Con, +4 Wis, and +6 Cha? At level 16 you could essentially have +1 LA and once you get to 18 you can buy that off too. Plus, who doesn't want to be a fey-celestial hybrid?

[Troacctid]

At a high level like that, you definitely want to go Sublime Chord. It's by far the best prestige class for bards, but normally doesn't come online until late in the game. Since it doesn't give you much outside of casting, it's best to take two levels for Song of Arcane Power and then add a second prestige class to advance its casting while getting better class features. Virtuoso is popular there, as it advances your bardic music, but any prestige class with 9/10 casting progression or better works fine. (Just take the level of lost casting before you enter Sublime Chord, and you end up not actually missing out on anything.) I personally like Ardent Dilettante or Stormsinger.

[ithoughtso]

Most of those threads don't really assist me though, I know the end goal, but I can't figure out how to get there. I want a badass bard that's not game breaking, who can both boost his party, and stop combats if need be.

[ZamielVanWeber]

If you can use the LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), why not go with a half-fey (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/halffey.shtml) aasimar? That's +2 Dex, -2 Con, +4 Wis, and +6 Cha? At level 16 you could essentially have +1 LA and once you get to 18 you can buy that off too. Plus, who doesn't want to be a fey-celestial hybrid?

Because giving up massive chunks of experience and sucking down sizable LA early stinks. I would recommend Lesser Aasimar with a level in the half-fey savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) that he buys off. He can then take the next and buy that off too and be far less behind exp wise and still get the benefit.

[atemu1234]

Half-Fey Aasimar. Feysimar?

[Honest Tiefling]

I'd fluff it as some sort of Eladrin derived thing. And what stop combats mean exactly?

[Red Fel]

I know what stops combat. Fear. And a Bard is just the way to do it. Biff helped me out a long while back with a Fear!Bard build, so I'll let him explain it:

A high Cha score is perfect for a Fear build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0), something like Bard 8/ Dread Witch 1/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Dread Witch 4/ Nightmare Spinner 4, using Inspire Awe (DM), Healing Hymn (CC), and Spellbreaker Song (CM) for Bard, plus you can trade your Suggestion song for Haunting Melody (ECS). Use the Half-Humans variant in Races of Destiny p150, especially since a Lesser Aasimar is already a Humanoid instead of Outsider, and you can get the feat Dreadful Wrath (PGtF). I've suggested this type of build before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252815#4), though this one won't get the Inimidate bonus that comes with Half-Orc. I'd still use Unseelie Fey if possible with the Winter aspect so adjacent opponents take a penalty to saves equal to your Cha bonus.

Here's how it works. Step one, eight levels of Bard. That gets you Bard progression, your features, your spells, and so forth. Step two, a single level each of Dread Witch and Nightmare Spinner. These don't advance casting, but they get you on the way, for reasons I'll explain momentarily. Step three, two levels of Sublime Chord. That's all you want from SC. After that, we're focused on fear and casting, not Bardic Music progression, so don't sweat it. Step four, the remaining four levels of Dread Witch and Nightmare Spinner are used to advance Sublime Chord casting, not Bard casting. This means you're getting more of your high-level spells. Here's what you get overall:
From Bard 8: Bardic Music as an 8th-level Bard. 3rd-level arcane spells. Bardic Knowledge. From Sublime Chord 2: +1 Bard level for Bardic Music purposes (so Bardic Music as a 9th-level Bard). 4th and 5th-level spells. Song of Arcane Power (use a Perform check to boost your CL). From Dread Witch 5: +4 to Sublime Chord spellcasting progression (so you cast as Sublime Chord 6, or 7th-level spells). Boost to [Fear] spell DCs and Intimidate checks. Ability to boost CL when afraid. Ability to add the [Fear] descriptor to spells you cast. Ability to inflict fear even on fear-immune targets. Fear aura. From Nightmare Spinner 5: +4 to Sublime Chord spellcasting progression (so you cast as Sublime Chord 10, or 9th-level spells) plus one bonus illusion spell per level per day. Immunity to fear. Ability to inflict Shaken status. Ability to cause enemies who disbelieve your illusions to become Shaken. Ability to cause nonlethal damage when enemies are afflicted by fear effects. 3/day save-or-die that causes Panicked status if they succeed on the save.
You can still use Bardic Music to buff the party, and illusions to engage in battlefield control, but now your illusions are darker, scarier, and much more lethal.

[ithoughtso]

I know what stops combat. Fear. And a Bard is just the way to do it. Biff helped me out a long while back with a Fear!Bard build, so I'll let him explain it:


Here's how it works. Step one, eight levels of Bard. That gets you Bard progression, your features, your spells, and so forth. Step two, a single level each of Dread Witch and Nightmare Spinner. These don't advance casting, but they get you on the way, for reasons I'll explain momentarily. Step three, two levels of Sublime Chord. That's all you want from SC. After that, we're focused on fear and casting, not Bardic Music progression, so don't sweat it. Step four, the remaining four levels of Dread Witch and Nightmare Spinner are used to advance Sublime Chord casting, not Bard casting. This means you're getting more of your high-level spells. Here's what you get overall:
From Bard 8: Bardic Music as an 8th-level Bard. 3rd-level arcane spells. Bardic Knowledge. From Sublime Chord 2: +1 Bard level for Bardic Music purposes (so Bardic Music as a 9th-level Bard). 4th and 5th-level spells. Song of Arcane Power (use a Perform check to boost your CL). From Dread Witch 5: +4 to Sublime Chord spellcasting progression (so you cast as Sublime Chord 6, or 7th-level spells). Boost to [Fear] spell DCs and Intimidate checks. Ability to boost CL when afraid. Ability to add the [Fear] descriptor to spells you cast. Ability to inflict fear even on fear-immune targets. Fear aura. From Nightmare Spinner 5: +4 to Sublime Chord spellcasting progression (so you cast as Sublime Chord 10, or 9th-level spells) plus one bonus illusion spell per level per day. Immunity to fear. Ability to inflict Shaken status. Ability to cause enemies who disbelieve your illusions to become Shaken. Ability to cause nonlethal damage when enemies are afflicted by fear effects. 3/day save-or-die that causes Panicked status if they succeed on the save.
You can still use Bardic Music to buff the party, and illusions to engage in battlefield control, but now your illusions are darker, scarier, and much more lethal.

Could I get the source books so I can take a glance through them? Also, definitely looks promising, especially since majority of my party is evil.

[Red Fel]

Could I get the source books so I can take a glance through them? Also, definitely looks promising, especially since majority of my party is evil.

Bard: PHB
Sublime Chord: Complete Arcane
Dread Witch: Heroes of Horror
Nightmare Spinner: Complete Mage

There's more to the build than just the classes; it also suggests ACFs and races and templates (oh my!), so take a look at the original post from which the quote was pulled to get more ideas.

[ithoughtso]

Sounds good, I'll definitely look into it. Definitely good with a chaotic evil party.