Help for a beginner 2nd edition AD&D newb (Fighter or Rogue)

[Pandyman]

I got invited to play 2e AD&D and this is my first time with 2e. With my inexperience I want to play a human fighter or rogue, that way i don't have to worry about spells my first time. I was wondering what books have good kits or anything that would help make me make a better fighter or rogue. Any tips are also welcome. I just don't want my inexperience to be too apparent in front of the vets. I'm trying to memorize all the rules by Sunday. lol

[neonchameleon]

I got invited to play 2e AD&D and this is my first time with 2e. With my inexperience I want to play a human fighter or rogue, that way i don't have to worry about spells my first time. I was wondering what books have good kits or anything that would help make me make a better fighter or rogue. Any tips are also welcome. I just don't want my inexperience to be too apparent in front of the vets. I'm trying to memorize all the rules by Sunday. lol

Play a fighter. Rogue's skills at low level do little other than get you killed (15% move silently is a liability), and fighter weapon specialisation kicks arse and takes names.

[BWR]

Kits are cool but hardly necessary for making a fun and capable character in 2e. If you had any particular idea what concept you want to play, it would be easier to help.
Fighters, as already noted, are hard to do wrong and the most you will have to worry about is wrapping your head around THAC0. (and I would just write out a little list of what AC I could hit on what roll, just to save time).

[LibraryOgre]

I agree with the consensus that you generally don't need a kit to be effective, even at most roles you're going to want. One of the better fighter kits is Myrmidon, from the fighter's handbook, since it mostly just adds to the abilities you get for being a fighter, without too much downside. There's almost always call for another fighter or thief in the party, and you want to remember one, very special, word for either class:

Specialize.

For fighters, this means picking a weapon and spending the slots to specialize in it; the bonus to hit and damage (turning a 15 or lower strength into effectively an 18 with that weapon), and the extra 1/2 attacks is essential to a good fighter. For thieves, pick a couple skills and get really good at them. Put the majority of your points into those skills, and make sure they're complementary... Hide in Shadows and Move Silently together make you a good scout. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps make you a "box man". Pick Pockets, Detect Noise, and Climb Walls are nice to have, but seldom really essential (with Detect Noise and Climb Walls, you've got a good base and are better than normal people already; PP is rarely the skill you absolutely need). If one thief is a box man, then the other can be a scout, and you've got a pair of competent people, instead of two iffy people.

While you're thinking human, you might also consider a half-elf multi-class fighter/thief; it does tend to skew you towards being a light armor sneaky type, but it's a good mix and not too XP expensive. Half elf doesn't really have any drawbacks in the game, and has racial abilities whereas humans do not (by default; check with your DM).

[hamlet]

It should be repeated, kits are very not-neccessary. Really. Almost anything you do with a kit can be done just as well with good role playing.

Next thing, welcome to the dark side. We have cookies.

An important point, it's thieves, not rogues. Rogues are the entire sub-group covering Thief and bard in core, and then Ninja and eventually, I think, Monk from Scarlet Brotherhood and maybe a couple other things.

The thief is a great class, especially for beginners. It's fairly simple and great fun, as long as you get out of your head the idea of the 3.x Rogue. They're not the same thing. Thieves are not "strikers" but, really, skulkers and/or box/trap men. They go quietly, fight dirty, and do not stand up in a knock down drag out fight. Like Mark says, pick a couple or complimentary skills and funnel all of your points into them for at least a few levels. You'll get quite competent by about 4th or 5th level and then you can branch out if you like. Just remember not to do what your character cannot/shouldn't do. You're not a fighter, don't try to act like one.

Fighters are also great for new players, except that they can get dead really quickly since, most times, you're right up front absorbing a lot of punishment. Best advice for a fighter that I can give is to learn when to run away like a sissy and learn when not to fight. Not everything has to be poked with a stick.

[Pandyman]

I kinda want to be a weapons master type fighter. I want to be competent with as many types of weapons as possible, but I want to focus on 2H weapon high strength build. So i planned on taking bow making and some smithing to arm myself. My third nonweapon proficiency was going to be something to reflect my learned background, as a fighter that had gone to learn from mages but lacked any magic ability. But yeah, I've been looking around and i do believe that thief might be off the table unless i focus like a full 30% on my first level to opening locks and simply stand back while i ramp up my move silently and other hiding skills. Although, if i go thief, Halfling might be an option since they get the highest move silently and hide bonuses. I could be around 60% sneakiness at level 1 and 90% sneakiness quickly if i just focus on those two skills and remaining unarmored for a few levels.

[Lord Torath]

Blacksmith doesn't let you make weapons. For that you need Weaponsmithing, which I seem to recall takes 3 proficiency slots and is Intelligence-based. Plus you need a workshop. Bowyer/Fletcher is always a good idea, though (Dexterity based). And any choices that aren't on the General or Warrior lists cost an extra slot. Hope you've got a high Intelligence (both for Weaponsmithing and for the extra NWP slots you're going to need).

Best of luck, and have fun!

[Pandyman]

That's what i meant when i said smithing, although i would eventually like to have both weapon and blacksmithing. I plan on having a decent intelligence, at least in the range where i don't get any penalty to anything, but I don't plan on being Roy Greenhilt lol

[Lord Torath]

That's what i meant when i said smithing, although i would eventually like to have both weapon and blacksmithing. I plan on having a decent intelligence, at least in the range where i don't get any penalty to anything, but I don't plan on being Roy Greenhilt lolIntelligence for anything other than a mage only determines how many languages you start with and how many extra NWP slots you start with (spoiler: they're the same number)*. Warriors start with 3 NWP slots (Weaponsmithing takes them all). Average intelligence(10.5) gives you 2 extra slots. Roy, with an Intelligence of 17, gets 6 extra NWPs when converted back to 2E. Armorer is also a separate skill that takes 2 NWPs and is Intelligence-based. I think Leatherworking will let you make leather armor. Also, should you ever manage to slay a dragon, you can make some great leather armor from its skin.

If you are using the Complete books, the Complete Fighter's HB lets you become proficient in weapon groups, which you'll probably want to do. I think you can only specialize in individual weapons, though. Check with your DM.


*Okay, it also determines how well you do on intelligence-based NWP skills, and it's also useful if you're a psionicist.

[Digitalelf]

Almost anything you do with a kit can be done just as well with good role playing.

I agree, it's just that kits often times give you bonus proficiency slots that help facilitate the role you want to play (e.g. the Cavalier kit from the "Complete Fighter's Handbook" gives a character both the "Riding (land-based, Horse)" and "Etiquette" proficiencies for free), so while you can call your character a "Cavalier" for example without the kit, it's just that the kit really helps you out by freeing up two of your precious few NW proficiency slots to begin with to spend on other more important things...

[Houtienchi]

I got invited to play 2e AD&D and this is my first time with 2e. With my inexperience I want to play a human fighter or rogue, that way i don't have to worry about spells my first time. I was wondering what books have good kits or anything that would help make me make a better fighter or rogue. Any tips are also welcome. I just don't want my inexperience to be too apparent in front of the vets. I'm trying to memorize all the rules by Sunday. lol

Personally it's fine if you want to play a thief, but remember, "to the best of your knowledge" you are hiding in shadows/moving silently. You would be better off at a distance picking off baddies with a short bow if a thief.

If you want to play a fighter see if you can play the Myrmidion and also use wep profiencies for weapon groups. Depending on how your DM sees it the Myrmidion gains a bonus or simply a free weapon specialization

[Jay R]

I urge you not to try to hide your inexperience from the vets. First of all, it's impossible. When the goblins come out and you're the only one who doesn't know how many hit points they get, everyone will know.

More importantly, experienced players love to help new players. Admit that you're new, and ask advice regularly. You'll get better faster, and be part of the group faster.

[Winter_Wolf]

Between fighters and thieves in 2e, you practically have to actively try to screw up being a fighter, so it's the safer pick if you need to acclimate. But I did enjoy the thieving. Word of caution, if you do heavily specialize with your thief skills, don't be surprised if your DM ends up presenting you with a challenge that will almost certainly get your character killed; it probably won't be intentional, but it'll probably be lethal. Like a locked, fireball-trapped door when your thief is built more along the lines of a wilderness scout. Literally zero points into lock picking or detecting traps. :smallsigh:

On the plus side, thieves advance quickly.

[Chevy]

I got invited to play 2e AD&D and this is my first time with 2e. With my inexperience I want to play a human fighter or rogue, that way i don't have to worry about spells my first time. I was wondering what books have good kits or anything that would help make me make a better fighter or rogue. Any tips are also welcome. I just don't want my inexperience to be too apparent in front of the vets. I'm trying to memorize all the rules by Sunday. lol

My advice .... Remember that it's "Role Playing" ... not "Roll Playing". Decide who and what you are as a character. Quirks, fears, likes, dislikes. Don't min/max and look for the ultimate build - it takes a game that can exist anywhere in 360 degrees on any plane and reduces it to a lump of cold stats. Take a non-weapon proficiency that makes no sense class-wise but makes perfect sense character-wise: Your character was brought up by a single mom - take sewing or some other domestic skill. Maybe you grew up in a trade center and played with kids form other races - the dwarf kids taught you about geology cause you could sneak beer out of the inn.

One of my most memorable characters was a Tinker-Gnome Illusionist/Inventor (aren't they all) - with a stutter and a fear of cats. Needless to say, the DM would roll each time I cast a spell with an audible component - I once filled a 100x100 room with randomly staggered illusionary walls. I even managed to speak at the expected rapid pace while interjecting the expected stuttering.

[MeeposFire]

Intelligence for anything other than a mage only determines how many languages you start with and how many extra NWP slots you start with (spoiler: they're the same number)*. Warriors start with 3 NWP slots (Weaponsmithing takes them all). Average intelligence(10.5) gives you 2 extra slots. Roy, with an Intelligence of 17, gets 6 extra NWPs when converted back to 2E. Armorer is also a separate skill that takes 2 NWPs and is Intelligence-based. I think Leatherworking will let you make leather armor. Also, should you ever manage to slay a dragon, you can make some great leather armor from its skin.

If you are using the Complete books, the Complete Fighter's HB lets you become proficient in weapon groups, which you'll probably want to do. I think you can only specialize in individual weapons, though. Check with your DM.


*Okay, it also determines how well you do on intelligence-based NWP skills, and it's also useful if you're a psionicist.

As a fighter you can actually use your int bonus proficiencies to purchase weapon prof. This is why high int is a great thing for a 2e fighter as it allows you to get more weapon styles, specializations, and weapon groups (along with NWP when you need them as there are a number of useful and even combat powerful ones if you know where to look).

[Mutazoia]

I kinda want to be a weapons master type fighter. I want to be competent with as many types of weapons as possible, but I want to focus on 2H weapon high strength build. So i planned on taking bow making and some smithing to arm myself. My third nonweapon proficiency was going to be something to reflect my learned background, as a fighter that had gone to learn from mages but lacked any magic ability. But yeah, I've been looking around and i do believe that thief might be off the table unless i focus like a full 30% on my first level to opening locks and simply stand back while i ramp up my move silently and other hiding skills. Although, if i go thief, Halfling might be an option since they get the highest move silently and hide bonuses. I could be around 60% sneakiness at level 1 and 90% sneakiness quickly if i just focus on those two skills and remaining unarmored for a few levels.

You may want to think about specializing in Bastard Sword, as it can be use one or two handed (thus the two listings for it...they are NOT separate weapons :smallmad:) That way you can still use a shield and then drop it and use a two handed grip when you want to.

If you go thief...I would recommend going Cleric/Thief. The combo of thief abilities, like sneak attack and certain cleric spells can be quite effective. (Nothing like casting silence on yourself to automatically make your move silently checks or to silently kill a lone guard with out raising an alarm, for example.)

[thorr-kan]

If you go thief...I would recommend going Cleric/Thief. The combo of thief abilities, like sneak attack and certain cleric spells can be quite effective. (Nothing like casting silence on yourself to automatically make your move silently checks or to silently kill a lone guard with out raising an alarm, for example.)
One problem: only works for gnomes in the PH; it's a fun combo, though. Or half-orcs, iffen they're allowed. My half-orc priest/thief is a lot of fun.