Race & background give same skill proficiency?

[The Shadowdove]

What do you do when you have two sources of the same skill proficiency?

Let's say, for example, you have a race that gave you a skill bonus for Intimidation, then took a background which also granted intimidation as a proficiency.

Do these both apply for double proficiency, or do you only gain the bonus for one and miss out on a bonus?

Thanks guys!

-dove

[Rowan Wolf]

Player's Handbook pg. 125

Proficiencies
Each background gives a character proficiency in two skills. Skills are described in chapter 7. In addition, most backgrounds give a character proficiency with one or more tools. Tools and tool proficiencies are detailed in chapter 5. If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.

[Rilak]

If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.

Which makes taking a background similar to your class awesome (since it gives you any skill proficiency you want; probably stealth or perception).

[Celcey]

Which makes taking a background similar to your class awesome (since it gives you any skill proficiency you want; probably stealth or perception).

I don't know that that's true- if you definitely get, say, stealth from your background, even if it's an option in your class, I don't think you can choose it and then say 'oh, I have the same skill from two places is, I'll just have to choose any other one.'

[Rilak]

I don't know that that's true- if you definitely get, say, stealth from your background, even if it's an option in your class, I don't think you can choose it and then say 'oh, I have the same skill from two places is, I'll just have to choose any other one.'

That's exactly how it works. You choose class before background, so let's say you choose Barbarian.

This gives you two skills from Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, Survival (bold my choices).
Choose the Outlander background (quick build; default choice for Barbarian), which grants Athletics and Survival. You now have Athelics from two choices and may choose any other skill you want (like Stealth).

The same goes for race skill proficiencies that overlap with your background.

[Celcey]

That's exactly how it works. You choose class before background, so let's say you choose Barbarian.

This gives you two skills from Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, Survival (bold my choices).
Choose the Outlander background (quick build; default choice for Barbarian), which grants Athletics and Survival. You now have Athletics from two choices and may choose any other skill you want (like Stealth).

The same goes for race skill proficiencies that overlap with your background.

First off, not everyone always chooses class first. Secondly, I think that's a pretty loose interpretation. You should just choose another skill from your class. With race/background, it's slightly different, because backgrounds don't give you a large selection of skills to choose from. in the OP's case, where this happens, choosing any other skill is fine. But if you chose one from your class that you end up getting elsewhere, you should just have to choose another one from your class.

[Rowan Wolf]

Actually the game intends you to pick race, then class, then backgroud as the numbered list of character creation, so take that however you like.

The Rule is vague with the exception that the duplicated option, but different option must be of the same type.

Would you have issue with a druid with the hermit background taking brew's tool proficiency or healer's kit in place of the duplicated herblism kit?

As with everything the final word is the DM's (well the players do have the option of choosing not to join that DM's game as well)

[Demonic Spoon]

RAW, that's the correct interpretation - background goes after class per the character creation.

Realistically, it's silly to game the system in that way, because backgrounds can be customized regardless.

[MadGrady]

It has been confirmed that really any skill/tool proficiency are interchangable. I don't have the exact tweet available, but Mearles did confirm this. The ones listed in the background/class sections are the most typical of choices for that, but by no means are you restricted to them.

[The Shadowdove]

What if your race and class both give proficiency (longbow)?

[GiantOctopodes]

What if your race and class both give proficiency (longbow)?

The position could be held that you would get another proficiency of your choice of the same type (in this case weapon), but that seems quite debatable as it does not mention weapon proficiencies as one of the types of proficiency that the rule applies towards. I see nothing breaking about that, especially as the most common situation in which that would occur (gaining martial proficiency with all weapons when you get proficiency with a martial weapon from elsewhere) gives no meaningful options to make in that scenario, as exotic weapons are not present in this edition. As such, someone gaining martial proficiencies twice who does not otherwise have martial proficiencies and being saddled with the same choice from both things that grant them giving a different one of your choice seems like it adds flavor and potential variety, and I can't see any way in which it could break anything.

[CultCthulhu]

It has been confirmed that really any skill/tool proficiency are interchangable. I don't have the exact tweet available, but Mearles did confirm this. The ones listed in the background/class sections are the most typical of choices for that, but by no means are you restricted to them.

This is covered in the PHB on page 125 under Customizing a Background.

[Dizlag]

It would seem the OP has a character that is a half-orc / soldier, both grant the Intimidation skill proficiency. I would rule the player can choose another skill in place of Intimidation for his race or for the soldier background with a good justification. Like, replacing the half-orc Intimidation skill with Survival since his character might have spent a lot of time just trying to survive coming from a half race.

Dizlag

[Rowan Wolf]

What if your race and class both give proficiency (longbow)?

That is a weapon proficiency not mentioned in the rule in question. Better example You are a rogue with thieves tools from call and a criminal you would then choose a different tool proficiency.

[MadGrady]

What if your race and class both give proficiency (longbow)?

This would be, imho, a very easy DM call. Especially if your character concept supports. It's not that big a deal to take an additional single weapon proficiency. You're gonna have a weapon, so are you gonna do a d6/d8 (most likely) with this weapon that you already have proficiency with, or with a different one.

Mechanically there aren't gonna be too many issues (though I could say a DM rule that you have to switch ranged with ranged, and melee with melee, also keeping between Simple/Martial.

If your concept says that this character wields a certain weapon not necessarily granted by your class/race/background. It should be an easy non-unbalancing add to just let you roll with it.

Now, I could see some debate on well this grants me a club, but I want to wield a greatsword lol. It should be slightly less of a leap.

[Tenmujiin]

First off, not everyone always chooses class first. Secondly, I think that's a pretty loose interpretation. You should just choose another skill from your class. With race/background, it's slightly different, because backgrounds don't give you a large selection of skills to choose from. in the OP's case, where this happens, choosing any other skill is fine. But if you chose one from your class that you end up getting elsewhere, you should just have to choose another one from your class.


I don't know that that's true- if you definitely get, say, stealth from your background, even if it's an option in your class, I don't think you can choose it and then say 'oh, I have the same skill from two places is, I'll just have to choose any other one.'

Since backgrounds are customisable (a rule which isn't listed as optional and so is more a part of the system than feats are) it actually doesn't matter what proficiencies you get from background. A better way to word skills is that you get two from your class list and any two of your choice.



That is a weapon proficiency not mentioned in the rule in question. Better example You are a rogue with thieves tools from call and a criminal you would then choose a different tool proficiency.

Like skills, tool proficiencies are interchangeable with other tool proficiencies and with languages so you basically get to chose any two tools/languages you want anyway.

The only restrictions on skills/tools/languages from backgrounds is that they are supposed to make sense with your backstory which doesn't make a difference if you are trying to meta-game since you can just build the backstory to give you the proficiencies anyway. If you aren't metagaming then it means that you can just chose the two skills and two tools/languages that best suit your backstory without having to worry about which ones your background (feature) gives.

[Ghost Nappa]

What if your race and class both give proficiency (longbow)?
How about this:

If the duplicated weapon proficiency is Martial, choose any 1 weapon of your choice.
If the duplicated weapon proficiency is Simple, choose any 1 simple weapon of your choice.

[Feldarove]

Like everyone is saying, plus the PHB, you select a new skill proficiency.

My group very much realized this, and made characters accordingly. Calling it gaming the system seems silly. Since backgrounds are separate from classes completely, I don't think any shift in power comes about by a certain class having a certain set of skills compared to another. Its the same number of skills regardless. Choose as you want. I honestly think the rule for character creation could be "Choose x amount of skills to be proficient in", where X is dependent on the class. Some flavor might be loss, but not balance.

[Talderas]

How about this:

If the duplicated weapon proficiency is Martial, choose any 1 weapon of your choice.
If the duplicated weapon proficiency is Simple, choose any 1 simple weapon of your choice.

It's really only useful in a few edge cases involves elves and mostly valor bards. It can happen with rogues as well but the problem is that most of the martial weapons you could pick up for your rogue don't work with sneak attack or it's just giving you a weapon that alters your damage type.