Shock Trooper

[TomTheRat]

I've seen this feat mentioned a number of times over various threads as one of the "must haves" for a fighter type. I assume that this is regarding the free double trip attempt option... but I honestly don't really see the attraction.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Bears With Lasers]

It lets you sacrifice your AC instead of your AB for Power Attack. Basically, this lets you Power Attack for your full BAB on every charge and not risk missing.

[Jack Mann]

No, it's the ability to take a hit to your armor class instead of your attack bonus when using power attack. Combine that with leap attack, and you're basically getting three times your level in damage on each charge and still hitting.

[TomTheRat]

Sure... but you get to charge how many times in a combat? A charge is a double move (line) + non-iterative attack right? A guaranteed hit is worth a feat?

[Jack Mann]

Yes, if it's enough to put a serious dent in a creature's day. And you only need to go ten feet (though you'll want a bit more for the jump, so let's say thirty feet). That's not too difficult to manage.

[TomTheRat]

Hrm... Leap Attack is from which book?

[Jack Mann]

Complete Adventurer.

[Bears With Lasers]

You can charge with at least 10 feet of space between where you start and where you wind up. Especially with a reach weapon, charging multiple times a combat is hardly infeasible.

[TomTheRat]

Gotcha. Multiply the damage from your Power Attack, lose the gain from your AC and murder the target.

[Jack Mann]

Now you've got it.

[I_Got_This_Name]

The idea is that the enemy that you hit dies, letting you move on to the next one. It all-but-guarantees a kill at least once per combat.

[Jannex]

And, I suppose, hope you destroy the target on the first hit, because now you have no AC and it's his turn.

[Roland St. Jude]

Right, and Leap Attack amplifies that bonus, if you use that. Plus, Shock Trooper does have a couple of other parts that improve bullrushing someone that may come in handy occasionally. But the main benefit is trading the attack penalty for an AC penalty.

So it's one great and two decent benefits for the cost of one feat.

[Ramza00]

Works great against single people encounters, remember though your penalty to hit lasts for a round so the monsters friends can still hurt you and are more likely to hurt you.

It is still a good feat :)

[Bears With Lasers]

And, I suppose, hope you destroy the target on the first hit, because now you have no AC and it's his turn.


If you acquire a Pounce ability, you're likely to. Even without that, your character may already have a low AC. Plus, there are ways to mitigate the AC loss. For example, Karmic Strike + Combat Reflexes will mean that if anyone hits you, you hit them back just as hard as that first hit (and you can add Elusive Target to keep them from Power Attacking you), Combat Reflexes + a reach weapon + Imp. Trip or Stand Still can keep them from getting to you, et cetera. You could also rely on non-AC defenses (such as a swift-action teleport out of full-attack range, a miss chance--i.e. from Displacement or Improved Invisibility--and so on).

[Jannex]

If you acquire a Pounce ability, you're likely to. Even without that, your character may already have a low AC. Plus, there are ways to mitigate the AC loss. For example, Karmic Strike + Combat Reflexes will mean that if anyone hits you, you hit them back just as hard as that first hit (and you can add Elusive Target to keep them from Power Attacking you), Combat Reflexes + a reach weapon + Imp. Trip or Stand Still can keep them from getting to you, et cetera. You could also rely on non-AC defenses (such as a swift-action teleport out of full-attack range, a miss chance--i.e. from Displacement or Improved Invisibility--and so on).

I suppose that with a miss chance, it might be more workable, though that requires an element of advance preparation that may not be available in every fight. I guess that the Shock Trooper strategy is more of a situational benefit--of less use, say, when dealing with a group of enemies than with a single one, since even if you took the first one down, all his buddies would probably be able to hit your diminished AC. And reach is good, certainly, although enemies with class levels and Tumble as a class skill would mitigate that.

I think I'm just more used to playing cautiously in combat, since I generally do Dex-combat with skillmonkeys rather than tanking.

[Kantolin]

To be fair, if the enemy is whacking at you, that's comparatively a good thing. That prompts the fighter to be 'tanking', which is what most fighters really like doing. ^_^

[AtomicKitKat]

It really shines though, when your party is surrounded by 2 groups with a decent amount of space between them. Ping? Pong!

[JaronK]

The other thing to remember is that the benefit of Power Attack lasts a whole round, so any attacks of opportunity in the round you charge will still have the full bonus. Thus, Power Attack/Shock Trooper/Leap Attackers will often have Combat Reflexes, Rombilar's Gambit, Hold the Line, and reach weapons to get a lot of extra attacks. Low AC means little when anyone nearby dies before they can hurt you.

JaronK

[Falrin]

Now do this with a Falchion and improved crit.

Maybe I should build a character around this some day.

[Innis Cabal]

or duel kukri...

[Person_Man]

Yeah, as Bears mentioned, use a reach weapon and pick up Pounce or other multiple attacks. There's really no reason a medium level melee build shouldn't deal at least 50+ points of damage on every hit, and get multiple hits.

Also, I've found that having at least one PC with the Leap Attack+Shock Trooper combo makes combat much more interesting, because it forces the DM to create a variety of different tactical challenges (enemies with magic, flight, ambushes, Invisibility, reach weapons, etc) rather then just throwing enemies at you. Since you'll pretty much slaughter anything that's just thrown at you, he has to be creative.

[The_Snark]

Out of curiousity, how do you get Pounce? It doesn't seem like there's all that many ways for most melee-types to get it. Psychic warriors get it as a power, so they don't have a problem, but it'd be more difficult for a fighter... the only other ways I can think of involve multiclassing as a spellcaster or being a nonstandard race (Catfolk are the only one I can think of without much level adjustment, though).

Dual kukri doesn't work, but a keen falchion or Improved Critical has potential. With a high attack bonus, you have a good shot at confirming, and multiplying all that Leap Attack damage hurts.

[Roderick_BR]

It's very useful for barbarians, that already have low AC, loses more during rage, and usually starts a fight charging.

[martyboy74]

Create a psionical(?) item of Psionic Lion's Charge.

[The Great Skenardo]

For a little extra cheese, if you feel lucky, break out the Bracers of Might and a Keen Scythe. The image is compelling, if you put skill ranks in intimidate and see that your appearance reflects it. With the right clothing and a cloak of displacement, Your barbarian can effectively be the Grim Reaper ( The one who is NOT your friend), dashing with unearthly speed (fast movement), the dark-cowled figure swings a wicked-looking scythe and neatly slices the poor hapless foe in twain (perhaps picking up a few Great Cleave attacks along the way...)

It's not a reach weapon, but the sheer flavor of it is delectible.

[Roland St. Jude]

Out of curiousity, how do you get Pounce? It doesn't seem like there's all that many ways for most melee-types to get it. Psychic warriors get it as a power, so they don't have a problem, but it'd be more difficult for a fighter... the only other ways I can think of involve multiclassing as a spellcaster or being a nonstandard race (Catfolk are the only one I can think of without much level adjustment, though)...

The most common are Lion's Charge (spell) and Psionic Lion's Charge (power) in items. Of course, there's polymorphing into something that can pounce. Catfolk is a good race (LA +1) that get's you the ability all the time.

There are various PrC class features and things, but those are the easily attainable ways.

There's a list here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146#post5305146) of most of the ways.

[Bears With Lasers]

R--Roland?

Um. Why do you have Lilly's icon? Not that you don't make a pretty pretty princess, but, y'know. Wondering.

[Roland St. Jude]

R--Roland?

Um. Why do you have Lilly's icon? Not that you don't make a pretty pretty princess, but, y'know. Wondering.

April foolies! (Which might also explain my funky title, your funky title, and some other things, too!)
Or I'm just a cross-dresser with a Kaylee fetish. One of the two.

[The_Snark]

Quadruple post? Triple now, I guess...

I noticed my title changing last night. Apparently it was one of the first, so while people with lower and higher post counts were still Pixies and Titans, I was a.. Shampooing? Then I realized it was late on March 31st.

[Quietus]

I was wondering what was up with that. It didn't make sense to me whatsoever.... I get it now. *Mutters*

[Person_Man]

Out of curiousity, how do you get Pounce?

Ways to get pounce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146#post5305146).

There are also a wide variety of ways to get extra attacks on a charge regardless of whether or not you have pounce, the easiest being Knock-Down or Snap-Kick, or multiply the damage from a charge, the easiest being Spirited Charge or Headlong Rush.

[AtomicKitKat]

The most common are Lion's Charge (spell) and Psionic Lion's Charge (power) in items. Of course, there's polymorphing into something that can pounce. Catfolk is a good race (LA +1) that get's you the ability all the time.

As I remember it, Catfolk need a Feat(Catfolk Pounce), and they only get to Pounce on "pigs".:smalltongue:

Of course, if you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, and charge into a Grease spell...:smallwink:

[Nowhere Girl]

April foolies! (Which might also explain my funky title, your funky title, and some other things, too!)
Or I'm just a cross-dresser with a Kaylee fetish. One of the two.

I kind of like my new title. :smalltongue: