Experience from downtime?

[Palegreenpants]

Hey peeps,

I DM for a group which has just finished a story arc. Following this great adventure, the players have decided that their characters will spend two years of downtime before meeting up again to continue their adventuring life. The issue is, some pain-in-the-wild-rumpus players have decided that they should gain experience during this downtime.

My answer to this desire for free XP was, of course, no way. The DMG says nothing about gaining experience from downtime activities. And, anyway, if the downtime was strenuous enough to have warranted XP gain, we should just play out that time as normal. Of course, the players are hitting me with 'we want agency' arguments. However, I see absolutely no reason to grant them XP for doing, effectively, nothing.

Opinions?

[randomodo]

In general, I'd say "if you want to gain XP, you should be role-playing it." No risk=no reward.

I have run a game where we "fast-forwarded" a couple of years, and declared that the PCs had gained a few levels in the interim. I did run though a flow chart with each player to talk through events that happened (which led in a couple of cases to having a new nemesis, a new magic item, or a spouse/kids).

Or you could just say "Okay, you gained some XP, you've now multiclassed into a level 1 innkeeper."

[cobaltstarfire]

Well, in adventurers league at least yes, you can gain levels with downtime, although the rule is mainly for trying to raise ones level to match the rest of the party.


Downtime: Catching Up
Sometimes the rest of your party levels up a bit before you do. Instead of watching them go on higher-level adventures while leaving you at home, you can catch up. When you’re catching up, your character is assumed to be going on a small side adventure, such as guarding a caravan or patrolling the wilderness.
Catching up is a special downtime activity only available at 4th level and 10th level, to get your character to the next
tier of play. At 4th level, you can spend 20 downtime days to level up to the start of 5th level. At 10th level, you can spend 100 downtime days to level up to the start of 11th level. You still pay lifestyle expenses when you spend downtime catching up.

I think whether you allow them to level or not really is dependent on what you plan on having them do for their next adventure, if it would allow you to do something more interesting sure, why not? Otherwise, no they probably don't need the extra level/exp.

[Palegreenpants]

In general, I'd say "if you want to gain XP, you should be role-playing it." No risk=no reward.

I'm also of that opinion. If you run a risk of dying, have some XP. But if you're being a normal citizen for two years, you are lucky to have retained your skills at all.



I think whether you allow them to level or not really is dependent on what you plan on having them do for their next adventure, if it would allow you to do something more interesting sure, why not? Otherwise, no they probably don't need the extra level/exp.

The group is currently all of the same level (9th level.) They have no idea what the next adventure will be, other than an expedition they've planned themselves. So, no. There's no real reason for them to 'catch up.'

[cobaltstarfire]

I wasn't speaking from the perspective of them "catching up" other than posting the existing rules for such a thing. I was speaking from the perspective of you and a DM potentially having an idea for a plot that they aren't quite the right level for.

[Flickerdart]

XP during downtime is preposterous - downtime is when you reap all the rewards of your adventuring, of which XP is one. For a similar reason, gold-earning enterprise should be similarly frowned upon (if you're making good money, you're probably not adventuring) but this is also a metagame concern - GP gain without XP gain risks breaking WBL.

Downtime is for buying/crafting items, pursuing adventure leads, or getting cozy with whatever people your PC is involved with (guild functions, noble balls, various wenching, etc). The various feats and PrCs that require this, such as Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Apprentice, the guild association rules in Complete Champion, or Mage of the Arcane Order are a good example of this sort of thing. Retraining and atonement can also be done during downtime, as well as binding outsiders, raising undead, fortifying your keep with various Hallow type effects, and so forth.

However, while the PCs are mucking about, the draugr are training (http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/75/75543.jpg). They should not be surprised if a BBEG from their past suddenly pops up with new abilities and minions. :smallamused:

[mictrepanier]

A DMG Option is to grant levels whenever it suit the DM and the next story arc.

XP from downtime, reading a book that give a free level, etc are all correct if all agree.

[Feldarove]

Immediate 10 die 6 lightning bolt, no saving throw!

You can do whatever you want, but that just seems dumb.

D&D isn't wow, where you pay your kid brother to level you or farm ore. The fun is in the adventuring and leveling! Passing up or clumping together new abilities can make some of them seem boring. I wouldn't recommend this.

[Palegreenpants]

I wasn't speaking from the perspective of them "catching up" other than posting the existing rules for such a thing. I was speaking from the perspective of you and a DM potentially having an idea for a plot that they aren't quite the right level for.

Ah, gotcha. Also, thanks for all you peeps' input. I've got more leverage for my cause, now.

[Tvtyrant]

It seems reasonable to me, and I am a MD who is never a player. NPC's get their XPATH somewhere afterall, and the "get stronger after a time skip" is a trope.

[Arathrir]

In general, I'd say "if you want to gain XP, you should be role-playing it." No risk=no reward.

I have run a game where we "fast-forwarded" a couple of years, and declared that the PCs had gained a few levels in the interim. I did run though a flow chart with each player to talk through events that happened (which led in a couple of cases to having a new nemesis, a new magic item, or a spouse/kids).

Or you could just say "Okay, you gained some XP, you've now multiclassed into a level 1 innkeeper."

Is there any possibility that you still have this flowchart, I am working on a way to allow characters who have not been played for a while to level up to the rest of the party abd I'd love some input. Please message me if you can help, thanks.

[BurgerBeast]

I would say no, with a significant probability of laughing. If they asked again... I would probably assume they were joking and throw a joke back... but if they were seriously persisting... I’d probably get rude. What a ridiculous demand.

Think about this: if you can gain experience through downtime, then why not just make characters, and then downtime your way to whatever level you want, and then play? What a joke.

They’re not even asking for something for nothing - which would be preposterous (to repeat that sentiment). They’re asking for even more for nothing, because downtime already provides benefits.

The fact that this post even has to exist disgusts me. Some people just don’t think they ought to need to earn anything anymore - they just want everything handed to them... even in imaginary worlds... apparently.

[MrStabby]

If they want to gain XP they need to do a Montage.

[Zhorn]

While I have allowed training during downtime for levels in my games in the past, I tend to avoid making it too easy, as to make it something where adventuring for levels is always the faster and more cost effective option, where training has enough costs and complications that the players that do it can get ahead in levels, the other players that pursued other downtime pursuits still tend to be better off with funds, resources, contacts, and even skills.

IFF you allow it; I'd suggest go old school on them, training for XP has a cost of 1 gp = 1 xp
Could even impose a limit on how much can be gained each day of downtime, and requires hiring trainers/tutors of appropriate skill to learn from.

[Nifft]

If they want to gain XP they need to do a Montage.

Mordenkainen's Melodious Montage.

[ShinyRocks]

You can train in tools and languages during downtime, explicitly in the PHB.

For two years, I'd definitely let them gain a skill proficiency. You spent two years reading books and inspecting plant life and watching animals in the wild, yes, you can have Nature. You spent two years running and climbing and swimming and improving your endurance? You get Athletics. Maybe disallow the 'strongest' ones like Perception.

I'd even let them have a feat (probably from a restricted list - they don't get the really game-changing stuff like Sentinel etc). But it seems reasonable to me that, for example, a mage could spend two years to work out how she could still move in light armour, and cast her spells without restriction while doing so, and gets Lightly Armoured. Maybe take off the Str/Dex boost and just give the proficiency, if it feels too strong. Or a fighter spends the whole time in bars getting drunk and getting into fights and comes out knowing Tavern Brawler. Ditto for the stat boost.

Build into the game a bit. The mage now has a contact who taught her armour use. The fighter has a couple of buddies and a couple of enemies from his bar fights. The rogue can now visit the elderly academic who runs the library where they studied Nature books.

You definitely don't get a level, just because you want one. But there's a sliding scale between that and 'two years pass, your hair is longer and you've got a couple of crow's feet, end of list'.

Maybe all that's obvious and I've said nothing helpful but oh well.

[HappyDaze]

Go ahead and give them their XP for downtime. BUT... tell them you're using milestone based leveling. If they want to calculate XP, so be it, but it will have zero impact on the game.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: this thread must have leveled up a few times after 5 years of downtime.