What do you guys think of having characters stay conscious when they fall below 0 hp?

[Windrammer]

Let's say that characters are incapacitated, not unconscious, when they fall below zero hit points. They either can't take actions beyond speaking weakly or they need to make a fortitude save to take any actions.

I've always found the unconsciousness system in combat kind of awkward. People don't just pass out when they get too hurt in life or fiction. It's not like it's just pure, overwhelming pain making them pass out, or they'd pass out a bit sooner. Neither is it pure exhaustion. Piercing and slashing wounds shouldn't have to knock you out like that.

As a compromise, perhaps people just need to make an initial fortitude save to maintain consciousness at negative hitpoints.

I feel this has tremendous potential for making fights more epic and interesting.

On his shaky last legs, the fighter manages to stand up and pick up his weapon through a series of successful Fortitude saves to make one final stand against the would-be TPK.

And of course, you can have those special final moments which so often elude players.

You can hold your party member as they're dying, hearing those last wishes. "Just hold on ___, our Cleric is only a double move away!" "I'm afraid I may fail this last death save, dear friend. It's been an honor adventuring with you. *dies*"

Does it complicate things? Yes. But I never said this is what the rules should have been, I just think it's a really fun option in a group of experienced players, or even otherwise.

Thoughts?

[JDL]

If you want to stay conscious when below 0 there's a feat for that.

Our old group used a final words houserule. If the character dies, they get to say one last thing before their spirit leaves their body.

[Windrammer]

If you want to stay conscious when below 0 there's a feat for that.

Our old group used a final words houserule. If the character dies, they get to say one last thing before their spirit leaves their body.

I'm speaking as a DM, not a player. Characters shouldn't have to blow two feats just to say something before they die, and the mechanics of Diehard are quite different from what I described.

Which is why your old group's houserule is appropriate - this is just an expansion of that, because the core rules don't account for any of this.

[Honjuden]

If you want to stay conscious when below 0 there's a feat for that.

Our old group used a final words houserule. If the character dies, they get to say one last thing before their spirit leaves their body.

That seems like an interesting house rule. I can see the possibilities now.

*rogue gets killed by a trap*
"Could've had a V8..."

[Kudaku]

The point of the 'dying' rules is actually to give characters a better chance to avoid dying - it gives them a grace period between 'living' and 'dead' where they're still alive but most enemies are unlikely to attack them.

I think letting players remain conscious while bleeding out is fine, but I'd be careful about adding in a diehard mechanic as default - paradoxically it may make your games a lot more lethal.

All that said, being able to act while dying seems like a very appropriate use of Hero Dice.

[Summerstorm]

Absolutely for it. But i am also for "No matter how dead someone is, he still gets his last move" (And not just one round - One last THING he can do) IF it is a "named character"

So the big evil dude can do one last "Curse you and your dog too", or a hero can say his goodbyes... or an npc can tell about the treasure in the castle of AAAARGH. That kind of thing.

At the moment it is like "Look, he is going to speak.. we know he is a caster... so he can still cast. KILL HIM SOME MORE" But overall D&D is pretty bad in telling a compelling story (The mechanics clashes with the roleplaying and interesting choices and characters too much.)

[eggynack]

The way the game is designed, being low on HP is already kinda meaningless, which is somewhat problematic from both a realism and mechanical perspective (in that damage tends to not be the best solution). That means that a rule which makes low HP even more meaningless is somewhat problematic, for obvious reasons. Maybe, then, you'd be better off reversing your rule. Instead of making anything lower than 0 into possible incapacitation, maybe you can make everything from your number of HD on down into potential incapacitation. That way, there would be more impact from taking damage, and characters wouldn't have a 1 HP buffer between incapacitation and unconsciousness. There are some adjustments that could make this more effective, like average or full HP on HD instead of rolled, and if you want to expand things, another status effect at half HP.

[Windrammer]

The point of the 'dying' rules is actually to give characters a better chance to avoid dying - it gives them a grace period between 'living' and 'dead' where they're still alive but most enemies are unlikely to attack them.

I think letting players remain conscious while bleeding out is fine, but I'd be careful about adding in a diehard mechanic as default - paradoxically it may make your games a lot more lethal.

All that said, being able to act while dying seems like a very appropriate use of Hero Dice.

That's a good point... I'll either scrap the action taking rule or make it a large enough DC to make it unlikely. Perhaps it even takes an extra toll on their health and pushes them closer to death.

[Jowgen]

I personally think that the following is a simple flavoursome solution:

-1 to -9 HP: When dying, characters are not entirely unconscious, but maintain a glimmer of perceptual ability. They can make reactive Spot and Listen checks at a -10 penalty (as if Sleeping, in the case of Listen), as the world around them goes dark. They still can't take any actions though (not even mental ones, but see exception below). Think of this as hovering between life and death, with everything going distant.

On their turn, dying characters have the option to take a single non-strenuous action (see the disable condition), but doing so causes them to die immediately after. Think of this as a doomed man using the last of his life force to hold out a letter to be delivered to his son or whatever other dramatic but ineffectual thing people do before dying.

-10 or lower HP: The instant a character is reduced to -10 or lower -be it from dying or a single massive attack- they may take a single non-strenuous action as an immediate action (even if there is none available). This allows a character to say his final words, or do whatever other dramatic but ineffectual thing people do before dying.

Thoughts?