Building a Temple from the Ground Up...

[Starchild7309]

Ok so I have a player who is rapidly approaching the apex of his personal story line. He is a 17 lvl Paladin of Tyranny/Favored Soul of Bane. He has been tasked with the construction of a temple in a particular city where Bane is not commonly worshiped as of yet. The city is Tashulatta, near Chult.

What I need to know is what sort of things he would have to do to first purchase the land, secondly, clear it and then third build/decorate/staff this Temple. He is getting a sum of money from the Church of Bane to start.

I need to know:
1. What size does a temple fit? A Mansion? A Keep?
2. How long would it take to build something like that
3. What's it going to cost him, including the purchase of land?
4. What should he have to do to get legal permission to build it?
5. Beyond the building, furnishing, and staffing are there any other costs I am not thinking of?
6. Anything else you can think of that may be relevant.

I should say that this has been planned for a long time now, and I thought I had it all worked out, but it would seem what I had is not what I needed.

[Crake]

Ok so I have a player who is rapidly approaching the apex of his personal story line. He is a 17 lvl Paladin of Tyranny/Favored Soul of Bane. He has been tasked with the construction of a temple in a particular city where Bane is not commonly worshiped as of yet. The city is Tashulatta, near Chult.

What I need to know is what sort of things he would have to do to first purchase the land, secondly, clear it and then third build/decorate/staff this Temple. He is getting a sum of money from the Church of Bane to start.

I need to know:
1. What size does a temple fit? A Mansion? A Keep?
2. How long would it take to build something like that
3. What's it going to cost him, including the purchase of land?
4. What should he have to do to get legal permission to build it?
5. Beyond the building, furnishing, and staffing are there any other costs I am not thinking of?
6. Anything else you can think of that may be relevant.

I should say that this has been planned for a long time now, and I thought I had it all worked out, but it would seem what I had is not what I needed.

At level 17, a piece of land probably wouldn't be much of a dent in his WBL. Wouldn't need much more than a few hundred square meters, which I would say probably cost within the realm of a few thousand GP. Get a piece of land with some run-down piece of property on it, and he could probably get it for even cheaper. Hire a wizard, or get a friend to come in with disintegrate to clear it up, then a few castings of wall of stone for the foundation and frame, add in some fabricate, shape stone and shape wood for aesthetics and furniture, and you can have the whole thing done within a few weeks for relatively cheap.

[Starchild7309]

Hire a wizard, or get a friend to come in with disintegrate to clear it up, then a few castings of wall of stone for the foundation and frame, add in some fabricate, shape stone and shape wood for aesthetics and furniture, and you can have the whole thing done within a few weeks for relatively cheap.

Well I think we are gonna have to do it the old fashioned way as he is pretty much a D*ck to every npc he meets, so no one wants to do him any favors.

[Faily]

Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign have costs for building structures such as temples, though they're written in BP (Build Points).

A Temple according to those costs would be 32BP, which is 32,000GP (approximately as the system allows you to build it for discount if you're upgrading from a shrine to a temple, or if you have a graveyard or a monument where you want to built the temple).

[Honest Tiefling]

Well I think we are gonna have to do it the old fashioned way as he is pretty much a D*ck to every npc he meets, so no one wants to do him any favors.

What? Has he just encountered NPCs with no families? He's a champion of Bane! People should be ****ing their pants when he looks at them! They don't need to like him, they need to fear him.

Wall of Stone and Stone Shape are both on the cleric list. If he's in good with ol' Baneypants, then he should have considerable rank to demand lower level clerics take turns to do this for him. After all, they are using their divine gifts granted by Bane to increase his glory!

The Zhents are probably also kicking around, and given Banite dogma, annoying a cleric of Bane (He's close enough, right?) is probably a bad idea overall. He should be able to get some Zhents to help out with this, perhaps even to just use undead for free labor. If the undead can't do it, well, they can help rustle up some converts from a defenseless village to do it. And they double as sacrifices to desecrate the area.

I think Lords of Darkness has a map of a Temple of Bane you could probably get some inspiration from?

[Kol Korran]

Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign have costs for building structures such as temples, though they're written in BP (Build Points).

A Temple according to those costs would be 32BP, which is 32,000GP (approximately as the system allows you to build it for discount if you're upgrading from a shrine to a temple, or if you have a graveyard or a monument where you want to built the temple).

Um a build point is worth more than a 1,000 GP


Originally from the PFSRD, under Kingdom building, building points:
In general, 1 BP is worth approximately 4,000 gp;
Though their numbers don't fully add up here and there, oh well...

[Hobosub]

How big it should be, is completely up to you.
With Bane being a tyrant and all, I'm expecting you would want something big and awe inspriing.

Using the numbers supplied by previous posts, you would hit about 128 K.
Add 13 K for each one of these babies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#lyreofBuilding)

The Stronghold Builder's Guide (which is a great place to look) suggests one week per 10 K of work with "enough workers".
This also suggests the option to add 10% to the price for a 10% reduction in building time, up to 70%.
So, I'm guessing you could pump it up to about 15 hours of playing your lyre :P


128 K * 1.70 = 217.6 K
217.6 K / (17 K / week) = 12.8 weeks
12.8 weeks * (7 days / week) = 89.6 days
89.6 days / (3 days / half hour ) ~ 29.87 half hours ~ 15 hours


What makes things even better, if you want things easy on yourself, the SBG lists a Temple component for use in your stronghold at a mere 15 K :)

Note that SBG also contains a listing of staff costs, which averages around 15g / month / staff.

[Faily]

Um a build point is worth more than a 1,000 GP


Though their numbers don't fully add up here and there, oh well...

I used the numbers on pg.205's table in Ultimate Campaign.

Kingdom Size 01-25: Price of one BP = 1,000GP.

At least in the book I have.

[Sian]

Don't you mean Tashluta? ... Tashalutta doesn't bring up everything, unless you are semihomebrewing a city into the area.

One thing to consider would be questioning if the temple would be publicly acknowledged, or if its to be hidden away with a cult of acolytes surrounding it trying to usurp the city with subterfuge

[Kol Korran]

I used the numbers on pg.205's table in Ultimate Campaign.

Kingdom Size 01-25: Price of one BP = 1,000GP.

At least in the book I have.

Huh... I don't have the books unfortunately, I just use the PFSRD... Oh well. If BPs change over size of the kingdom, it may explain other discrepancies I've stumbled upon. So be it.

[RedMage125]

What? Has he just encountered NPCs with no families? He's a champion of Bane! People should be ****ing their pants when he looks at them! They don't need to like him, they need to fear him.

Wall of Stone and Stone Shape are both on the cleric list. If he's in good with ol' Baneypants, then he should have considerable rank to demand lower level clerics take turns to do this for him. After all, they are using their divine gifts granted by Bane to increase his glory!

The Zhents are probably also kicking around, and given Banite dogma, annoying a cleric of Bane (He's close enough, right?) is probably a bad idea overall. He should be able to get some Zhents to help out with this, perhaps even to just use undead for free labor. If the undead can't do it, well, they can help rustle up some converts from a defenseless village to do it. And they double as sacrifices to desecrate the area.

I think Lords of Darkness has a map of a Temple of Bane you could probably get some inspiration from?

This. So much this.

Keep in mind that the Zhents are also a legitimate (as in, not secretive) organization dedicated to world domination through control of markets and economies. Contacts with the Black network can yield contractors, laborers and raw building materials of decent to high quality for a lower price than can normally be expected (lower price to a high-level servant of Bane, anyways).

If he's playing such a character well, then "being a jerk to NPCs" shouldn't result in NPCs disliking him so much as FEARING him. Adherents of Bane (especially 17th level ones) are tyrants themselves, and they wield authority and fear, both with a black iron fist. He should be able to accomplish as much with an Intimidate check as a shiny Paladin of Sune could with a Diplomacy check.

[Sian]

Zhents in Tashalar is a bit misplaced ... well, misplaced is maybe a strong word but Tashalar is probably (not accounting for whatever the PC might have done) just beyond spitting distance from where Zhents would be able to establish them selves without overreaching from their base in Moonsea. Said establisment would probably be a despotic barony, with intentions of growing, somewhere around Lake of Stream.

Thats not to say that the Chruch of Bane wouldn't be around, but they won't have the support group that they have to the north (even as splintered between banites and cyrites Zhents might be). In Tashalar the Chruch of Bane is more likely to work together with the more Militant members of the Rundeen.

[Starchild7309]

Keep in mind that the Zhents are also a legitimate (as in, not secretive) organization dedicated to world domination through control of markets and economies. Contacts with the Black network can yield contractors, laborers and raw building materials of decent to high quality for a lower price than can normally be expected (lower price to a high-level servant of Bane, anyways).

Well he is pretty far out of contact with anywhere the Zhents may be. It is Tashluta, but slightly changed for the Savage Tide adventure. I am sure he can intimidate, but as he has pretty much alienated or scared everyone he has come in contact with he is at a loss for resources in that way. He also was not big on putting skill points into and social skills. He said he wanted this, but did very little in character planning to make it "realistic"