White Dragon shaman

[Shadowscale]

How would one go about optimizing a white dragon totem dragon shaman? It seems to be aura and stealth based and would you want to take certain feats, cross class or prestige class out at a certain point? Anything flavorful to prestige into? Also what would be good races?

Come to think of it, what kind of ability scores would you want to be maximizing?

[sideswipe]

dragon shaman 1/cleric 19 so that people will stop bugging you for healing spells most of the time

[atemu1234]

dragon shaman 1/cleric 19 so that people will stop bugging you for healing spells most of the time

Though that is blue text, it's probably true.

[Blackhawk748]

Get some Metabreath on that thing, also going into Dread Commando could be fun, stealth coldthrower who can stab you with Sudden Strike.

[sideswipe]

Though that is blue text, it's probably true.

i only put it in blue text because i felt saying it seriously would be against the point of the thread, to optimise dragon shaman.

though honestly dragon shaman is a 1 level dip, or its a build purely for fluff reasons, else you would use dragonfire adept with draconic feats.

[Chronos]

Yeah, dragonfire adept does a better job of implementing the fluff, and of the two things dragon shaman is good for, they have a better version of one, and can get the other with a feat. There's really just not all that much you can do with a dragon shaman.

[Shadowscale]

Yeah, dragonfire adept does a better job of implementing the fluff, and of the two things dragon shaman is good for, they have a better version of one, and can get the other with a feat. There's really just not all that much you can do with a dragon shaman.

Isn't that like saying why optimize a favored soul or sorcerer because clerics and wizards exist. What's wrong with trying to optimize something that's outclassed by something else? People optimize fighters all the time, and not everyone's response is "play tomb of battle."

[Blackhawk748]

Isn't that like saying why optimize a favored soul or sorcerer because clerics and wizards exist. What's wrong with trying to optimize something that's outclassed by something else? People optimize fighters all the time, and not everyone's response is "play tomb of battle."

I agree with this.

Back on topic, take a Swordsage Dip at some point and get Assassin's Stance, mix with Entangling Exhalation........ Profit!

Or you could get your Predator Drone on with some wings (this requires being Dragonblooded Hint: be a Frostblooded Orc) and then get Strafing Breath and start freezing things from the sky, combine with Entangling Exhalation to make your party love you.

[torrasque666]

People optimize fighters all the time, and not everyone's response is "play tomb of battle."
No.... that's usually the first response, if not its "Is Tome of Battle on the table?"

[Troacctid]

Well the main problem you have to overcome as a Dragon Shaman is that you can't actually do anything. Like, you don't actually have any abilities that let you do...things. You can't really do skills because you don't get enough skill points, you can't really do melee combat because you don't get any useful weapon proficiencies. You have some auras, but the boosts they give you are tiny, and they don't scale well--the boosts increase very slowly, and when you get new ones, you're still picking from the same list you were picking from at level 1, so you get diminishing returns every time. You get a breath weapon, but it's puny and can only be used once or twice per encounter. And you get Lay on Hands, but it's only a relatively small pool of hit points and isn't action-efficient in combat. Basically, you have nothing to work with.

White dragon as the totem makes it even worse, because the draconic adaptation is worthless. Walk on icy surfaces without sliding? Who cares? That never comes up. And cold is the second most commonly resisted element, so it's not really what you want for your breath weapon. If you want Hide and Move Silently, you're much better off with black or green for your totem dragon.

Anyway, if you really want to optimize a Dragon Shaman, step one is always to take the Shamanic Invocation alternate class feature from Dragon Magic. It's a no-brainer--it's just so much better than the extra aura known you're giving up.

One possible route you could take is to get multiple different breath weapons and use metabreath feats. Go Dragonborn (heart aspect) for your race, multiclass as a Dragonfire Adept, whatever. Then put a bunch of different metabreath feats on your breath weapon each time you use it. It extends the recharge time, but that's okay, because you just switch to another breath weapon. Stack up all your metabreath feats on that one. And while it's recharging, switch to the third breath weapon. By the fourth round, the encounter is probably over and the recharge time doesn't matter.

Another route could be to use Dragon Shaman as a base for a standalone prestige class like Chameleon. That way it doesn't matter that your Dragon Shaman abilities don't scale well into the lategame, because you're leaving it behind after 5 levels.

A third route would be to multiclass into a martial adept. Tome of Battle is so good for multiclassing that it can save just about any subpar melee build.

[sideswipe]

i would honestly say that what Troacctid said is correct.

dragon shaman can be a great dip, but most of the time more than a level is pointless. i could see people going to 4th level for water breathing and immunity to sleep, paralysis and draconic aura. past that it is really really bad.

it shares the same problem as the truenamer, or samurai from complete warrior, a good idea done badly, the difference here is a few niceish tools with no direction, CW samurai is bad tools and a direction its not good at, and my favourite class is sadly broken.

[Urpriest]

Isn't that like saying why optimize a favored soul or sorcerer because clerics and wizards exist. What's wrong with trying to optimize something that's outclassed by something else? People optimize fighters all the time, and not everyone's response is "play tomb of battle."

It's a little different. Spontaneous casting involves a different playstyle, and takes advantage of a different set of game elements. Clerics and Wizards may outclass Favored Souls and Sorcerors, but the latter still have access to unique and interesting things that incentivize playing them. The same is true of Fighters: if you're playing a Fighter it's because you want to do something dependent on one of their unique ACFs, or you have a build in mind that requires a huge number of feats like Jack B. Quick. The thing is, Dragon Shaman doesn't have anything like that. There's nothing interesting or unique the class gives you, so the only motivation to take levels in it is because is has Dragon in the name, and that same motivation works for the Dragonfire Adept.

It's not that we're saying that you shouldn't take it, it's that you don't have any reason to want to take it.

[Cavir]

though honestly dragon shaman is a 1 level dip, or its a build purely for fluff reasons, else you would use dragonfire adept with draconic feats.


One possible route you could take is to get multiple different breath weapons and use metabreath feats. Go Dragonborn (heart aspect) for your race, multiclass as a Dragonfire Adept, whatever. Then put a bunch of different metabreath feats on your breath weapon each time you use it. It extends the recharge time, but that's okay, because you just switch to another breath weapon. Stack up all your metabreath feats on that one. And while it's recharging, switch to the third breath weapon. By the fourth round, the encounter is probably over and the recharge time doesn't matter.


Hehe- Dragonborn DFA with dip of Dragon Shaman is what I just got accepted as in a campaign as a replacement player. I added Raptoran as a base race to better complete the draconic stereotypes: breath (DFA), wings (Raptoran), senses (Dragonborn), and auras (Shaman). I'm not going with metabreath feats.