Command Undead and ghosts

[Gracht Grabmaw]

So when you command an undead body, you basically over control of the flesh against whatever force animated it in the first place, not against its own mind.

But what happens when you try to control a ghost with it? It's not a fight for its body since there is no body left, it's just a purely spiritual thing fueled by trauma, but it's still undead. Do you just take control of the spectral form with no effect on the actual person, or are you really taking control of someone's soul? And if you really do command the very soul, what's the limit of what you can make it do? Could just order it to "Move on." and force it to go peacefully to whatever afterlife it was headed for originally? If it's a ghost of an insane person, like an allip or a banshee, could you cure their insanity by taking control of their minds and sorting everything out for them? Should it even be possible for a necromancer to control a ghost at all since necromancers (DND necromancers anyway) are all about studying the secrets of the body and mostly ignore the spiritual aspects?

[hamishspence]

So when you command an undead body, you basically over control of the flesh against whatever force animated it in the first place, not against its own mind.

That's not how the SRD phrases it:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm


This spell allows you some degree of control over an undead creature. Assuming the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way (treat its attitude as friendly). It will not attack you while the spell lasts. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing.

[Inevitability]

That's not how the SRD phrases it:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm

I think he referred to a cleric's 'Command Undead' ability, not the spell 'Command Undead'.

[Gracht Grabmaw]

Well the SRD sucks and my interpretation is more interesting.

[hamishspence]

I think he referred to a cleric's 'Command Undead' ability, not the spell 'Command Undead'.

Fair enough:


Commanded
A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

"Under mental control" probably works like the various Dominate Person spells - only without any saves against unacceptable orders.

[frogglesmash]

I don't recall ever reading anything that said rebuke/command undead targeted the body.

[Darkweave31]

Well the SRD sucks and my interpretation is more interesting.

Well maybe you'd prefer this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm).

Not sure how sarcastic you were being, but just don't surprise a PC mid-session with a new houserule because you think your idea is better.

Also, necromancy is the school of magic that deals with life and death, not the 'secrets of the body'. They even have core spells that deal with the soul, like astral projection, magic jar, and soul bind. They do not, by any measure, ignore spiritual aspects and I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Complete Mage has a decent description of the school, how practitioners see it, and some criticisms within the wizarding community.