Those curious vampires!

[DomarSaul]

I've been pretty solidly a D&D player and DM. It's not for lack of interest in other systems, that's just the one that my groups have known best. For quite a while, I've wanted to give World of Darkness a try, but after a false start each with Vampire and Mage, I've come around to wondering:

What exactly does the group DO in a World of Darkness game? It's up to the Storyteller, of course, but my impression was that they are geared to a deeper role-playing aspect, which would suggest (to me) character that aren't just out to have adventures, who (aside from being undead) have something like a "normal" unlife. In the games I played, one was railroaded to the point that the characters' actions were largely irrelevant, and the other never really got past the "WOOOOAH We're wizards now!" phase. So, please, enlighten me - what are the kind of things one would expect to do in various WoD games?

[Green Bean]

I've been pretty solidly a D&D player and DM. It's not for lack of interest in other systems, that's just the one that my groups have known best. For quite a while, I've wanted to give World of Darkness a try, but after a false start each with Vampire and Mage, I've come around to wondering:

What exactly does the group DO in a World of Darkness game? It's up to the Storyteller, of course, but my impression was that they are geared to a deeper role-playing aspect, which would suggest (to me) character that aren't just out to have adventures, who (aside from being undead) have something like a "normal" unlife. In the games I played, one was railroaded to the point that the characters' actions were largely irrelevant, and the other never really got past the "WOOOOAH We're wizards now!" phase. So, please, enlighten me - what are the kind of things one would expect to do in various WoD games?

Well, Vampire games tend to be about political machinations among the undead, so expect lots of ambition, betrayal, etc. Also, expect that there's going to be alot of player conflict. Most vampires are about gaining some kind of power, whether it be wealth, influence, knowledge, or physical strength, so when two players' goal conflict, it may lead to problems (In the words of Terry Pratchett, "A vampire's ideal world would be one where all other vampires are dead and no one seriously believes in them any more"). So basically, expect the unexpected.

[Were-Sandwich]

I never liked WoD style games, or heavy politic games in general. RL politics make my head hurt. Thrwoing vampires and were-wolves and various factions within each of them only complicates the matter.

[Closet_Skeleton]

So, please, enlighten me - what are the kind of things one would expect to do in various WoD games?

Bite people? Vampire (the Masquerade) sucks.

I think you're supposed to let the players do stuff for themselves. Bah. The players working stuff out for themselves? How naive.

It's supposed to be roleplaying centric. Apparently because the you don't want to get into Combat because the combat system is terrible.

A game that encourages role playing != The only game you can roleplay in

The whole point is you're a vampire. You're not supposed to need any other insentive to play the game.

[Clementx]

WoD is much more about surviving to accomplish your goals, not finishing those goals as quickly as possible to get to the poorly-locked treasure chest. Each game has its own flair, and each game has changed a lot between editions. The tendency to railroad is a product of any game master that builds plots instead of creating situations. It can happen in Vampire just as easily in DnD.

The fact that the games are set in a more modern world and each character was mortal beforehand helps you develop a better characterization, and generate plans and desires besides, "I need a +2 weapon and improve my AC before next level".

Some examples of WoD games I have played/ran.
-A tenuous coterie of independent vampires try to set themselves up in a new city. They clash with the authorities who don't want squatters, the Sabbat vampires that have made a bloody faith out of being monsters, have their heart-strings tug by mortals that resemble what they once were, and finally collapse under the strain of their competing insanities and the subtle suggestions of another vampire that just wants them to admit they have always been damned.
-A newly formed pack of werewolves are sent to investigate suspicious activity, which ranges from possessed artifacts being smuggled through the city, spirits going mad, a full-on assault by corrupted werewolves, busting up a pair of vampire middlemen, tearing each other to shreds because they can't get over their competing personalities while trying desperately to survive together, and eventually having to kill a dragon.

WoD doesn't work wonderfully as a war game, so there is no lowest common denominator to fall back on, like in DnD. Not that combat isn't rewarding, challenging, exciting, and prone to give you amazing stories. It just isn't thick enough to fill countless forum threads with mechanical arguments.

Interplayer conflict comes to the fore more than in DnD, mostly because you have to justify why all these randomly generated PCs came together. "You meet in a tavern" leads to fractured groups as each player guides their character as reason dictates- and that usually means not dealing with the three other random people. In DnD, no one really cares why the Neutral Elf Rogue should hang out with a Human Paladin, a Dwarf Barbarian, and a Gnome Wizard. You just do, and split the treasure at the end of the day. WoD doesn't have such an obvious carrot.

[Jannex]

Wow, I'm seeing a lot of WoD-hate here; that's unfortunate. I think Clementx said it very well. The main difference between WoD and D&D is that it requires a little more thought that, "born, grew up, became an adventurer." In fact, the characters generally aren't "adventurers," in the D&D sense. Their adventures are usually prompted either by their own motivations and goals, or by those of the groups to which they belong. Plot threads can involve politics, ancient mysteries, conspiracies, saving the world (or your corner of it), helping people/getting the bad guy, or simple survival against someone who's trying to kill you. Remember, "Heroes save the world because that's what heroes do. Antiheroes save the world because saving the world inevitably includes the bit they happen to be standing on."

I once ran a (Sabbat) Vampire game wherein the PCs were trying to put together an ancient ritual that would break the curse of sunlight which had been placed on the First Vampire--little did they know, this would have kick-started the vampire apocalypse. Last semester I was in a Mage game (which hopefully will continue) where the PCs, a group of college students, were trying to figure out what was causing the weird stuff that had been happening in the area, and why a Technocrat (technomages, who seek to oppose/eradicate "magic" mages, supposedly for the good of humanity) had broken into my mentor's office. This led us to discover the destruction of a cabal of Technocrats over a hundred years ago, and some other intriguing stuff that I'm not entirely sure how it connects because we didn't get that far in the plot. All in all, good times.

As far as WoD combat, I've always liked it a bit better. It's simpler, more intuitive, and actually allows for things like dodging and called shots. Plus, who doesn't get a kick out of rolling a double-handful of d10s? :smallbiggrin:

[The Endbringer Xaraphim]

WoD is much more about surviving to accomplish your goals, not finishing those goals as quickly as possible to get to the poorly-locked treasure chest. Each game has its own flair, and each game has changed a lot between editions. The tendency to railroad is a product of any game master that builds plots instead of creating situations. It can happen in Vampire just as easily in DnD.

The fact that the games are set in a more modern world and each character was mortal beforehand helps you develop a better characterization, and generate plans and desires besides, "I need a +2 weapon and improve my AC before next level".

Some examples of WoD games I have played/ran.
-A tenuous coterie of independent vampires try to set themselves up in a new city. They clash with the authorities who don't want squatters, the Sabbat vampires that have made a bloody faith out of being monsters, have their heart-strings tug by mortals that resemble what they once were, and finally collapse under the strain of their competing insanities and the subtle suggestions of another vampire that just wants them to admit they have always been damned.
-A newly formed pack of werewolves are sent to investigate suspicious activity, which ranges from possessed artifacts being smuggled through the city, spirits going mad, a full-on assault by corrupted werewolves, busting up a pair of vampire middlemen, tearing each other to shreds because they can't get over their competing personalities while trying desperately to survive together, and eventually having to kill a dragon.

WoD doesn't work wonderfully as a war game, so there is no lowest common denominator to fall back on, like in DnD. Not that combat isn't rewarding, challenging, exciting, and prone to give you amazing stories. It just isn't thick enough to fill countless forum threads with mechanical arguments.

Interplayer conflict comes to the fore more than in DnD, mostly because you have to justify why all these randomly generated PCs came together. "You meet in a tavern" leads to fractured groups as each player guides their character as reason dictates- and that usually means not dealing with the three other random people. In DnD, no one really cares why the Neutral Elf Rogue should hang out with a Human Paladin, a Dwarf Barbarian, and a Gnome Wizard. You just do, and split the treasure at the end of the day. WoD doesn't have such an obvious carrot.


. . . I love you.

Seriously, it seemes as if you have an awesome Storyteller(GM).

Oh, and Tzimitsce rule!

[Shisumo]

I've been pretty solidly a D&D player and DM. It's not for lack of interest in other systems, that's just the one that my groups have known best. For quite a while, I've wanted to give World of Darkness a try, but after a false start each with Vampire and Mage, I've come around to wondering:

What exactly does the group DO in a World of Darkness game? It's up to the Storyteller, of course, but my impression was that they are geared to a deeper role-playing aspect, which would suggest (to me) character that aren't just out to have adventures, who (aside from being undead) have something like a "normal" unlife. In the games I played, one was railroaded to the point that the characters' actions were largely irrelevant, and the other never really got past the "WOOOOAH We're wizards now!" phase. So, please, enlighten me - what are the kind of things one would expect to do in various WoD games?

If they are very, very lucky, they do something like this (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=279847).