Shield Master Feat Question?

[kalasulmar]

The description of this feat says that you suffer no penalties for attacking with a shield while wielding a weapon in your other hand. So does that mean you would only apply TWF penalties against your other weapon or does this feat become Perfect TWF if you are using a shield?

[MilesTiden]

... Wow that feat is poorly worded. It's sorta like Tormtor School in 3.5, where it removes all penalties, not just the one you think it would. With that in mind... how many attack penalties can we stack to get rid of? :smalltongue: Can you two hand a shield if you're wielding another weapon outside of that, like a Boulder Helm? Power Attack might be something to look into... Maybe Power Attack, Bloody Assault, Dazing Assault, and Stunning Assault? Combat Expertise and Improved Second Chance? Unless I'm misreading or it's been FAQ'd/Errata'd, which is totally possible.

[grarrrg]

Strictly as written, it is horribly borken (yes, borken, it is that bad).

The generally agreed upon consensus is that it removes ONLY TWF Penalties on attacks made with a Shield.
The agreed upon workaround to this is to just wield two Shields.

[kalasulmar]

I thought I had found the TWF fix everyone is looking for.

[Andreaz]

I thought I had found the TWF fix everyone is looking for.It's not a fix because you still need to build dex to buy the TWF feats. And finesse is wasted on shields.
Even the first requires more than a typical full str build uses. Oh, and the -2 penalty is not really a big deal to anyone.

Path of War comes closer to being a fix. It offers Deadly Agility (deal damage with Dex when using finesse) and Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF with 2 1h weapons if you want and buy the TWF chain with STR). it's not a perfect solution in my book because I already think the TWF chain is a feat tax, but my home solution is "Improved TWF: your offhand now does iterative attacks exactly like your main hand" :p

And if there's any doubt to what shield master is meant to do, my group's take is "when fighting with weapon and shield you get no TWF penalties, and you can use the shield's armor enhancement as attack enhancement".
It's a way to reduce weapon costs(a major benefit, since shield enchantments are way cheaper than weapon enchantments) and ultimately allow you to have a +5 poison resistant ghost touch bolstering shield that also happens to Bash as +5 phase locking shock menacing limning ghost touch cruel dispelling frost.(arguably even life surge and impact are good, though i'd still rule them as using the +1 bit)

[kalasulmar]

The feat tax is two when we are talking about a ranger or slayer. They can get shield master at 6th level with combat style abilities. That's 5 levels before anyone else.

[skypse]

By RAW it means ANY penalty. This includes penalties for using it as an improvised, offhand, TWF, power attack, fighting defensively, thrown, range increments, ANYTHING.

Well, you get the point :)

[Psyren]

Strictly as written, it is horribly borken (yes, borken, it is that bad).

The generally agreed upon consensus is that it removes ONLY TWF Penalties on attacks made with a Shield.
The agreed upon workaround to this is to just wield two Shields.

Keep in mind that your additional attacks from iteratives aren't actually penalties, they just have a lower BAB than the preceding attacks. So Shield Master won't affect those. Thus if you dual-wield shields, your "primary shield" will still continue to get lower attack bonuses with each iterative (+11/+6/+1 etc.) Your "off-hand shield" won't have any penalties to hit, but you will only get a single extra attack with it unless you keep picking up the other feats in the TWF chain (ITWF, GTWF).

[Lycar]

It's not a fix because you still need to build dex to buy the TWF feats. And finesse is wasted on shields.
A light shield is a light weapon, thus Weapon Finesse applies to it. Of course you take the shield's ACP as a penalty on your to-hit rolls with your main weapon, but this ought to be manageable. :smallwink:

[master4sword]

A light shield is a light weapon, thus Weapon Finesse applies to it. Of course you take the shield's ACP as a penalty on your to-hit rolls with your main weapon, but this ought to be manageable. :smallwink:

Especially since a masterwork light shield has a +0 ACP. :smallwink: