Cool stuff that never works.

[Marlowe]

So yesternight my character was fighting some kobolds. I pull out a Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Basic Diamond Mind strike. You know it: Make a Concentration check vs the enemy AC, if successful the enemy is flat-footed against your attack and takes +1d6 damage, if unsuccessful you're at -2 to hit.

So I promptly roll a 2 on the Concentration Check and a 1 on the hit roll.:smallsmile:

This wouldn't be so notable except that something like this happens every time I use this particular maneuver. It's like having to roll decently twice in a row just puts too much pressure on the laws of cosmic balance and guarantees a horrible roll on at least one of the checks. In fact the most usual result for me is failing the concentration check and making the hit roll anyway.

What else is in game that seems perfectly well-balanced for what it is and looks useful on paper, but in practice never works? Either owing to being too chancy, too situational, or some other factor beyond control of the player?

[Jak]

Most all of the monk's class features.

[Forrestfire]

Tree Tokens

They're a neat item that makes a tree, but when you put some thought into the mechanics behind growing a viable, adult oak tree... They're basically bombs. And so, a lot of the time, DMs give you a look and say "no" when you try to use them as such (personally I encourage clever use of items like that. Tree tokensplosions are awesome).

[SwordChucks]

Any time I need to make a jump check for any reason. I don't know why but, if I can't take ten I fail my roll even on high strength characters with ranks in jump.

[Marlowe]

Come to think of it, ANY single-target Save or Lose/Save or Suck spell that works against Will save. Hold Person. Feeblemind. Dominate Whatever it doesn't matter. Even if the DM plainly does want it to work and is rolling the save right in front of us. It's like announcing you're using one of these is tantamount to summoning the Natural 20 Fairy.

I get a little grin every time I see somebody on this forum talking about these spells in the context of them doing anything.

[goto124]

Tree Tokens

They're a neat item that makes a tree, but when you put some thought into the mechanics behind growing a viable, adult oak tree... They're basically bombs. And so, a lot of the time, DMs give you a look and say "no" when you try to use them as such (personally I encourage clever use of items like that. Tree tokensplosions are awesome).

Are there tree-exploding spells or something?

[Lathund]

Crafting. Not because it inexplicably results in bad dice, but because it's magnitudes too slow to make money from.

I played a dwarf fighter a while back and I felt like making him an armor smith. You know, for funsies. Well, it gave him something to do during off-time, but that's the only positive thing I can say about it.

[Jergmo]

Are there tree-exploding spells or something?

I assume this has something to do with the fact that there are many places that cannot actually contain a suddenly fully sprouted oak tree.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Are there tree-exploding spells or something?
There aren't actually any limitations on where you can make that oak appear. You can drop a 60ft oak on your enemies if you feel like it, no problem. Or drop it in a 10ft high room. Or let a monster swallow you and drop it in its stomach.

Then there's the more common uses: Drop one to get heavy cover. Use it to sink a ship. Drop it next to a wall as a climbing aid. Get building material for any number of projects (and combine it with fabricate). Get an instant druidic teleport beacon.

The situations ín which suddenly creating a massive tree doesn't help are as common as those that can't be solved by sufficient application of explosions (not many). You just have to be creative.

[JDL]

Assassin Death Attack. Starts weak and goes downhill fast. I've only ever successfully pulled it off against a sleeping Paladin when a coup-de-grace would have been just as effective.

[Ravens_cry]

Mounted Combat on a horse.
Damn, you look so badass, you're doing so much damage . . . until you get to the first dungeon, and, yeah . . . :smallsigh:

[Khedrac]

There aren't actually any limitations on where you can make that oak appear. You can drop a 60ft oak on your enemies if you feel like it, no problem. Or drop it in a 10ft high room. Or let a monster swallow you and drop it in its stomach.
Wrong. It's a common misconception, but...

If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted.

[Hamste]

Anyone else wondering why every feather token seems to be useful on a boat? Even the tree token is useful.

[WeaselGuy]

Mounted Combat on a horse.
Damn, you look so badass, you're doing so much damage . . . until you get to the first dungeon, and, yeah . . . :smallsigh:

That's why you do mounted combat on a riding dog or a dire weasel, halfling or kobold, respectively.

[atemu1234]

That's why you do mounted combat on a riding dog or a dire weasel, halfling or kobold, respectively.

I once made a Kobold who rode a Kobold were-dire weasel. It worked out fairly well.

[Milo v3]

Wrong. It's a common misconception, but...

It's not a spell, so that doesn't apply.

[Ravens_cry]

That's why you do mounted combat on a riding dog or a dire weasel, halfling or kobold, respectively.
That's why I specified "on a horse", or any other Large or larger mount.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'll go against the spirit of the thread and instead list an incredibly mundane thing that never worked for my character: using a rope and a grappling hook to climb over a wall.

I rolled a 1 each time when throwing the hook. The only thing I succeeded in doing was alert the guards. Fortunately, when the guard was trying to see who was trying to throw the hook, our shapeshifting companion managed to fly behind him and knock him down from the wall. That alerted a second guard, but at least we got a moment to hide again. Oh, and a snazzy new uniform.

[Malak'ai]

Come to think of it, ANY single-target Save or Lose/Save or Suck spell that works against Will save. Hold Person. Feeblemind. Dominate Whatever it doesn't matter. Even if the DM plainly does want it to work and is rolling the save right in front of us. It's like announcing you're using one of these is tantamount to summoning the Natural 20 Fairy.

I get a little grin every time I see somebody on this forum talking about these spells in the context of them doing anything.

Hey, it's not like I do it on purpose! You know my dice hate me sometimes and like to ruin my, or your plans :smallfrown:.

[Elricaltovilla]

I've been playing a Zweihander Sentinel Warder in a game for a couple sessions now. I can't hit with Silver Crane healing maneuvers for crap. The highest roll I've ever gotten with one was an 8. I'm also the closest thing our party has to a healer.

[Bonzai]

So yesternight my character was fighting some kobolds. I pull out a Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Basic Diamond Mind strike. You know it: Make a Concentration check vs the enemy AC, if successful the enemy is flat-footed against your attack and takes +1d6 damage, if unsuccessful you're at -2 to hit.

So I promptly roll a 2 on the Concentration Check and a 1 on the hit roll.:smallsmile:

This wouldn't be so notable except that something like this happens every time I use this particular maneuver. It's like having to roll decently twice in a row just puts too much pressure on the laws of cosmic balance and guarantees a horrible roll on at least one of the checks. In fact the most usual result for me is failing the concentration check and making the hit roll anyway.

What else is in game that seems perfectly well-balanced for what it is and looks useful on paper, but in practice never works? Either owing to being too chancy, too situational, or some other factor beyond control of the player?

That whole martial school tends to pay dividends when you optimize concentration. A while back a worked on it and got a +98 mod or so. With that kind of bonus, Diamond Mind becomes awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Quester]

Diplomacy rolls, when you don't have a high modifier (my character has a -1). You try to make a social situation better, and end up making it worse. Sometimes much worse.

[Flickerdart]

One of my characters was a wandering lawyer - sort of a legalistic analogue of your typical knight-errant paladin, who roamed the world setting things right according to legal principles rather than might makes right. He was a Factotum with an excellent complement of skills - who never rolled anything but a natural 1 on his Knowledge (Local) checks for laws. The DM was one of the "1 = critical failure" types, so he was woefully incompetent at his only actual job.

[atemu1234]

One of my characters was a wandering lawyer - sort of a legalistic analogue of your typical knight-errant paladin, who roamed the world setting things right according to legal principles rather than might makes right. He was a Factotum with an excellent complement of skills - who never rolled anything but a natural 1 on his Knowledge (Local) checks for laws. The DM was one of the "1 = critical failure" types, so he was woefully incompetent at his only actual job.

In my group we don't have critical fumbles, but sometimes that's the joke.

[Deophaun]

Come to think of it, ANY single-target Save or Lose/Save or Suck spell that works against Will save. Hold Person. Feeblemind. Dominate Whatever it doesn't matter. Even if the DM plainly does want it to work and is rolling the save right in front of us. It's like announcing you're using one of these is tantamount to summoning the Natural 20 Fairy.

I get a little grin every time I see somebody on this forum talking about these spells in the context of them doing anything.
I was once in a fight being harassed by four mooks. The friendly party sorcerer comes in to "help" by casting colorspray on all of us. The DM rolls their saves: 18, 17, 18, 20. I roll my save: 1.

So you see, it sometimes hits.

[Marlowe]

Hey, it's not like I do it on purpose! You know my dice hate me sometimes and like to ruin my, or your plans :smallfrown:. Happens with you DMing, happens with me DMing, happens with D; with us those spells don't ever work.


That whole martial school tends to pay dividends when you optimize concentration. A while back a worked on it and got a +98 mod or so. With that kind of bonus, Diamond Mind becomes awesome. :smallbiggrin: I was level 2. I'm had no problems with other Diamond mind maneuvers that work on concentration. It's just Sapphire Nightmare Blade where something always goes wrong. Probably because you're only using it at low levels where things can be very swingy.


I was once in a fight being harassed by four mooks. The friendly party sorcerer comes in to "help" by casting colorspray on all of us. The DM rolls their saves: 18, 17, 18, 20. I roll my save: 1.

So you see, it sometimes hits.

Ah, yes. That's helpful.:smallsmile:

[Zaq]

Twice I've tried to make a Hexblade, the kind who forces enemies to make five or six different saves against debuffs in one round. Intimidating Strike, Netherese Battle Curse, Brutal Strike, Hexblade's Curse, etc. The idea being that once you're through with someone, they could probably have a fair fight against a six-year-old. But it never works. No matter how high I get my save DCs, I can never reliably make enemies fail their saves. Or I can't hit with the attack to begin with. Or I get pummeled too badly to actually deliver my attacks. Or whatever. But it never works. I've tried it twice under two different GMs, and it's failed spectacularly both times.

Also, Spellthieves. Those never work the way I want them to.