Spellsword (Gish) Builds

[UptownMotown]

So my DM for an Eberron campaign asked us (the players) to help him with NPC builds since he's too busy working to do so. I always loved the idea of a warrior/caster build but a lot of people seem to be bashing on them. I came up with a build that I think works ridiculously well using a warmage (another unfortunately bashed class).

As a half-dragon (red) human, take Warmage 8/Boar Totem Barbarian 3/Rage Mage 1/Abjuration Champion 5. You'll get a 30-foot-cone breath attack that deals 6d8 as a free action, immunity to sleep, paralysis, and fire, and blind-sense out to 60 feet. You'll also have +4 AC from natural armor, a 1d6 bite, and two 1d4 claw attacks. Not bad for only a +3 level-adjustment.

Make sure you take the Eclectic Learning Warmage variation out of Unearthed Arcana to get Shield. I'll get back to that later.

With all stats at base 10, you'll have 18 Str, 10 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha. Your primary stats should be charisma first and constitution second. Anything else goes into strength. Make sure to put a couple points into intelligence and wisdom but don't make them a priority. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING INTO DEX.

Feats should be as follows:

CL1: Power Attack, Combat Expertise
CL3: Eschew Materials
CL9: Versatile Spellcaster
CL12: Twin Spell
CL15: Battle Caster
CL18: Battlecaster Offense

With your absurd strength, Power Attack will offer a nice boost to your damage without really needing to worry about missing the target. Combat Expertise will boost your AC and will likely be your best friend at early- to mid-levels since you'll have no dexterity modifier. Eschew Materials will make sure that components are unnecessary. Feel free to pick a different feat if your DM doesn't bother with spell components. It really shouldn't be much of a problem since most of your spells don't have component costs anyways, but will help when there is. Versatile Spellcaster is your bread and butter. It lets you substitute two spells of the same level to cast one spell one level higher. Super nice when you're out of higher level spells and have a few useless ones to burn. Twin Spell is perhaps the best feat on the list. It lets you simultaneously cast the same spell twice. While the spell cost four levels higher than it normally would, being able to cast two fireballs (a fourth-level spell) at the same is extremely overpowered. Battle Caster lets you use heavy armor without any arcane failure chance and can easily put you on the 40+ AC range when stacked with Mage Armor and Combat Expertise (your DM will hate you). Battlecaster Offense is not necessarily the best feat but it helps keep consistent damage when switching between spells and melee weapons.

As a Warmage, you get Sudden Empower as a bonus feat. Super handy to have when you start getting AoE spells (fireball...). Also satisfies the prerequisite for Twin Spell without having to burn a feat. Eclectic Learning replaces Advanced Learning but allows you take any spell off the Wizard list and cast it two levels higher. Take Mage Armor as soon as possible. You can also wear medium armor without arcane failure at 8th level.

As the Boar Totem Barbarian variant, you get Diehard as a bonus feat and at third level can rage for two extra rounds. Not a bad exchange for fast movement, uncanny dodge, and trap sense. Because of the way this has been worded RAW, the spell rage you get as a Rage Mage will also last for two extra rounds.

Speaking of which, your Spell Rage as a Rage Mage replaces your caster level with your character level when casting any spell from the abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, and transmutation schools. Super nice since you'll be lacking in the caster level department and will really cast from these schools anyways. As I said earlier, it also stacks with your extra rounds of rage granted by your barbarian levels and lasts just as long as vanilla rage. Even better is that you now have two forms of rage to choose from.

Remember why I kept emphasizing Shield and even built the character specifically to use it? It's a prerequisite for Abjurant Champion. When you cast any abjuration spell that increases your AC (again, Shield!), you add your Champion levels to that. In addition, you double the spell's duration. There is no reason why it shouldn't last the entirety of most encounters. Once you get Swift Abjuration at second level, you can cast it any abjuration spell as though you applied the Quicken Spell feat (ie. swift action Shield, followed by Twin-cast Fireball and free-action breath attack). By now you should have at least a 40+ AC, if not better, throughout every encounter your DM throws at you for the rest of the campaign. Unless he rolls a natural 20, you're impossible to hit with anything but spells. Arcane Boost lets you exchange one of your spells to grant you a number of bonuses, not including even more boosts to your already overpowered AC or better damage on a melee attack. Martial Arcanist is the cherry-on-top for this class by letting you use either your caster level or your base attack bonus (whichever is higher). Great for when you're not raging.

Hope this helps.

[Tiri]

Mage Armor is Conjuration.
The

[UptownMotown]

It still doesn't matter. An 8th level Warmage gets Eclectic Learning twice. As long as one of the spells chosen is from the abjuration school, there is absolutely no reason this build isn't viable. So what if they don't take Mage Armor? They could get a Word of Power instead. That said, Mage Armor + Shield is nasty.

[Vhaidara]

First off, this is a pretty terrible gish build. Check out the Gish Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321715-The-Gish-Handbook) for an idea of what makes a good gish. Specifically, you hit three trap options (Warmage, non-Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian, and Rage Mage), and one holy grail option (Abjurant Champion), which you aren't even using right (Mage Armor isn't abjuration, and therefore gets no benefits from Abjurant Champion)


Martial Arcanist is the cherry-on-top for this class by letting you use either your caster level or your base attack bonus (whichever is higher). And yes, it stacks with Spell Rage.

Um, not sure what you mean by stack. They overlap completely. Spell Rage means CL - Character level while spell raging, while Martial Arcanist

[UptownMotown]

I've read the Gish Handbook and none of the builds suited my style. Note that Martial Arcanist makes your caster level equal to your BAB "unless it would otherwise be higher." With that in mind, Spell Rage would indeed overwrite that, but I designed it to give the player options for when they don't rage.

Also, kindly define "not using right." Please refer to my previous post regarding a Warmage getting Eclectic Learning twice.

Keep in mind that as a Warmage, you're not supposed to be the "all-powerful fire-and-forget nuke." You're more of a Swiss Army Knife. Or with this build, a Swiss Army Longsword. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian makes for a great Cavalier (Pounce + Lance + Charging bonuses + Charging feats = 20d6+ per attack on a full-attack charge) but not as ideal for this build as Boar Totem. Rage Mage is almost entirely for buffing damage and combination with Warmage Edge. You can already breathe a 30' cone of fire as a free action. Why not add a couple CL20 Sudden Empowered fireballs in the same round?

[Tysis]

You said sudden empowered, twinned fireballs followed by a 6d8 breath attack was the go to attack. Thats an average of 105 damage reflex save for half with a DC of 17+Cha mod for the spell and an average of 27 reflex DC14 for half on the breath weapon, which is 1/day. Considering that average CR 20 creatures have 409.33HP and +18.67 to Reflex saves, not to mention spell resistance. To top it off the average bab for CR is 29.56 so even 40+ AC isnt exactly untouchable. It looks like the goal is to play an AoE version of the mailman on a gish chassis and that's pretty much impossible as far as I know. It's late so my math might be off, don't hesitate to let me know if I'm missing something.

If you just want to sling spells something like Wizard5/Incantatrix4/IoSV7/incantatrix4 astral projected from their personal demiplane and shapechanged into a titan brings plenty of firepower, defense, and can wade into melee without fear of much.

If you actually want to be a melee combatant then duskblade19/Spirit lion barbarian1 would be much easier for the dm to run. Alternatively, Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/X8 will give plenty of defense. Seriously there's no real reason for not having divine grace when playing a charisma based gish, especially with all the variant paladins that exist. Also while having a more versatile spell selection.

You mention Warmages being akin to swiss army knives. Warmages out of the can aren't swiss army knives, they're subpar blasters. You make them swiss army knives by expanding your spell list at every possible opportunity, which isn't what's being done here.

[Marlowe]

Okay. I'm no expert in high-op builds. But even I can spot that Mage Armour doesn't stack with regular armour, that you can't use Combat Expertise when casting, that Sudden Empower is 1/day, that a large number of enemies at high levels are immune to your fireballs and that many such threats will be targeting you in ways that make your AC irrelevant.

[Khedrac]

With all stats at base 10, you'll have 18 Str, 10 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha. Your primary stats should be charisma first and constitution second. Anything else goes into strength. Make sure to put a couple points into intelligence and wisdom but don't make them a priority. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING INTO DEX.

Feats should be as follows:

CL1: Power Attack, Combat Expertise

No combat expertise for you - requires Intelligence 13.

[sideswipe]

the reason those options are designated as traps in the handbook are because they just don't quite work as intended or they are just not worth your time.

as for the warmage being a "swiss army knife" i have absolutely no clue where you get that.
the warmage is almost entirely blast spells, plus a few nice misc combat spells. i cant see BFC, enchantment, utility, buffs (except 1 or 2) or any other type of spell except "i melt your face in some sort of cool fashion!"

that is the exact opposite of swiss army knife. and with its mundane/ melee parts of the build all it has is smash! no skills utility or abilities that are standard for high level play.

on top of that, you only have 13 levels in a casting progression, on a slow progression class, you get 6th level spells.... meaning you miss out on spells that could save this build.

things to look for in a gish...
long term buffs to enhance you, or
combining spells with attacks, or
giving a full caster slightly better saves and BAB as well as class abilities without a caster level drop or slowed progression.
(there are more but these are the beginners points)

you don't really have the buffs part until the end of the build, in which you have 2 buff spells. and way too late.
you are choosing between spells or attacking, and splitting your concentration on the two, meaning both are sub par tactics.
you have essentially half casting from a tiny list that comes from a Tier 3 class (i think maybe tier 4) and not really utilising it to any extent except 1/day getting a mediocre breath attack whilst raging.

[UptownMotown]

I say "Swiss Army Knife" because I built the character to satisfy my DM's need for a character that could alternate between crowd control and melee and still be effective at both. Before dndtools.eu went down due to a WotC cease-and-desist, there were about 120 Warmage spells at CL9. That said, I had a character for another campaign I played that went warmage/crusader with Eclectic Learning and was able to pick up Power Word: Pain off the wizard list by the time I hit level four (super fun spell).

Say you put an 18 into strength: 18 base + 8 racial + 4 rage = 30 => +10 mod. Using a greatsword and Power Attack: 10 + 5 two-hand bonus + 10 Power Attack = 2d6 +25, 19-20 x2. Even if you don't have rage, that's still 2d6 + 22 as a first-level character. Ouch.

As far as spellcasting, I recognize this build won't be the most "godly" at later levels compared to a wizard, but I have yet to see a wizard build that can get their AC into the 50+ range like this. That said, Warmages get Circle of Death as a 6th-level spell. Instantly killing 20d4 HD creatures while in a Spell Rage sounds rather entertaining. A sudden empowered Fireball for 15d6 while in a Spell Rage (or two if twinned) is rather nasty.

Again, I never designed this build to be the most powerful caster possible. If that's the type you want to play, this really isn't for you. But like I said earlier, if you want to be able to switch between AoE casting and melee at a whim and tank either way, I think this works perfectly.

[Divayth Fyr]

Before dndtools.eu went down due to a WotC cease-and-desist, there were about 120 Warmage spells at CL9.
And how many of those do something besides dealing x damage? The Orb variants alone are 11 out of those 120 spells, which is almost 10%.

[Deadline]

Say you put an 18 into strength: 18 base + 8 racial + 4 rage = 30 => +10 mod. Using a greatsword and Power Attack: 10 + 5 two-hand bonus + 10 Power Attack = 2d6 +25, 19-20 x2. Even if you don't have rage, that's still 2d6 + 22 as a first-level character. Ouch.

No, you would be a 4th level character (Half-Dragon is LA +3, meaning a half-dragon with 1 class level is a 4th level character). This character is incredibly fragile for the first several levels of his career (that 4th level character has a single Warmage hit dice + con).


As far as spellcasting, I recognize this build won't be the most "godly" at later levels compared to a wizard, but I have yet to see a wizard build that can get their AC into the 50+ range like this. That said, Warmages get Circle of Death as a 6th-level spell. Instantly killing 20d4 HD creatures while in a Spell Rage sounds rather entertaining. A sudden empowered Fireball for 15d6 while in a Spell Rage (or two if twinned) is rather nasty.

A couple things here. AC is not king. Touch Attack can and will ruin your day. Spells or abilities with a save (or no save) that don't require a to-hit roll will also ruin your day. Wizards layer protections like miss chance, AC boosts, energy protection/immunity, SR, and not being there (Astral Projection or Abrupt Jaunt).

The other thing is that Circle of Death allows a Fort save and Spell Resistance. Take a look at the things you'd be fighting at that level (so, CR 19?). Look at their Fort saves vs your DC (23 at best, assuming you put level up points as you indicated in your post, have a +5 tome, and a +6 charisma item). Now look at their SR vs. your Caster Level. You aren't likely to kill much of anything with it.

And there are a tremendous number of enemies in the various Monster Manuals that are either outright immune to fire, or have a solid fire resistance. And Fireball suffers the same problem as Finger of Death (you have a low CL and Save mod to reliably do much damage with it).


Again, I never designed this build to be the most powerful caster possible. If that's the type you want to play, this really isn't for you. But like I said earlier, if you want to be able to switch between AoE casting and melee at a whim and tank either way, I think this works perfectly.

This build isn't a tank until very late levels (and at that point, only good vs. things that target AC), and even then can be easily taken apart by certain types of attacks. That said, if you start playing at high levels in a group that isn't high OP, you should do ok with this build.

Edit - Blerg, noticed this was a build for your DM to have to face off against PCs. This guy is still going to have issues, but if the PCs don't have energy protection/immunity and Death Ward by 15th-19th level, then he could be a viable threat. Otherwise he'll probably get steamrolled. At lower levels though, he's not really a threat unless he gets the jump on them. A group of 4 4th level wizards could beat him (at his ECL 4 point) to death with quarterstaves in a round. They wouldn't even have to cast spells.

[Troacctid]

And how many of those do something besides dealing x damage? The Orb variants alone are 11 out of those 120 spells, which is almost 10%.

Warmages are basically all damage, all the time. Their list is almost entirely direct damage spells with very few exceptions.

Level 0: light
Level 1: [none]
Level 2: continual flame, pyrotechnics, shatter
Level 3: fire shield, gust of wind, sleet storm, stinking cloud
Level 4: black tentacles, wall of fire
Level 5: mass fire shield
Level 6: acid fog, blade barrier, disintegrate
Level 7: earthquake, waves of exhaustion
Level 8: incendiary cloud, prismatic wall, scintillating pattern
Level 9: elemental swarm, prismatic sphere

I might be missing a few, but that should be most of the non-damaging spells (excluding things like the save-or-suck tacked onto orb spells). Even among these, the ones that aren't destructive and/or combat-oriented can be counted on one hand.

In fairness, they do actually have pretty decent battlefield control.

[UptownMotown]

No, you would be a 4th level character (Half-Dragon is LA +3, meaning a half-dragon with 1 class level is a 4th level character). This character is incredibly fragile for the first several levels of his career (that 4th level character has a single Warmage hit dice + con).



A couple things here. AC is not king. Touch Attack can and will ruin your day. Spells or abilities with a save (or no save) that don't require a to-hit roll will also ruin your day. Wizards layer protections like miss chance, AC boosts, energy protection/immunity, SR, and not being there (Astral Projection or Abrupt Jaunt).

The other thing is that Circle of Death allows a Fort save and Spell Resistance. Take a look at the things you'd be fighting at that level (so, CR 19?). Look at their Fort saves vs your DC (23 at best, assuming you put level up points as you indicated in your post, have a +5 tome, and a +6 charisma item). Now look at their SR vs. your Caster Level. You aren't likely to kill much of anything with it.

And there are a tremendous number of enemies in the various Monster Manuals that are either outright immune to fire, or have a solid fire resistance. And Fireball suffers the same problem as Finger of Death (you have a low CL and Save mod to reliably do much damage with it).



This build isn't a tank until very late levels (and at that point, only good vs. things that target AC), and even then can be easily taken apart by certain types of attacks. That said, if you start playing at high levels in a group that isn't high OP, you should do ok with this build.

Edit - Blerg, noticed this was a build for your DM to have to face off against PCs. This guy is still going to have issues, but if the PCs don't have energy protection/immunity and Death Ward by 15th-19th level, then he could be a viable threat. Otherwise he'll probably get steamrolled. At lower levels though, he's not really a threat unless he gets the jump on them. A group of 4 4th level wizards could beat him (at his ECL 4 point) to death with quarterstaves in a round. They wouldn't even have to cast spells.

Exactly. The only spellcasters our DM has to worry about for the campaign are a beguiler and an (eventual) druid/sorcerer/arcane hierophant. My character is planned as a Goliath Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Ranger 4/Paladin 5/Cavalier 9. If I need to take something else, I have the option to switch Ranger for something else (chosen for divine spells, mount/companion stack). Our (eventual) Monk/Ninja/Assassin 1/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 9 shouldn't be too bothersome against this guy.

Our DM also homerules a lot of things or creates her own stuff for sheer trolling (feather wand of place tree; not something to tickle with). Playing an old-school RPG with perma-death isn't too different from how she DMs.

[UptownMotown]

Warmages are basically all damage, all the time. Their list is almost entirely direct damage spells with very few exceptions.

Level 0: light
Level 1: [none]
Level 2: continual flame, pyrotechnics, shatter
Level 3: fire shield, gust of wind, sleet storm, stinking cloud
Level 4: black tentacles, wall of fire
Level 5: mass fire shield
Level 6: acid fog, blade barrier, disintegrate
Level 7: earthquake, waves of exhaustion
Level 8: incendiary cloud, prismatic wall, scintillating pattern
Level 9: elemental swarm, prismatic sphere

I might be missing a few, but that should be most of the non-damaging spells (excluding things like the save-or-suck tacked onto orb spells). Even among these, the ones that aren't destructive and/or combat-oriented can be counted on one hand.

In fairness, they do actually have pretty decent battlefield control.

This is pretty much correct. Fit in with my overall theme quite nicely. If I had to, I could change Warmage to Battle Sorcerer pretty cleanly for better casting. Continual Flame is funny when cast on a rogue-type character.

[UptownMotown]

No combat expertise for you - requires Intelligence 13.

Note that I didn't allocate any points into abilities. You're going to need at least a 12 Int before you factor in racial bonuses for Warmage Edge to help out at later levels.

[UptownMotown]

Okay. I'm no expert in high-op builds. But even I can spot that Mage Armour doesn't stack with regular armour, that you can't use Combat Expertise when casting, that Sudden Empower is 1/day, that a large number of enemies at high levels are immune to your fireballs and that many such threats will be targeting you in ways that make your AC irrelevant.

RAW never state it DOESN'T stack. Spell description only states that you add +4 AC. Incorporeal creatures also can't bypass it. Combat Expertise was meant as a melee option when you needed defense, not because it doesn't work with casting. That's what casting defensively is for. I don't really care if Sudden Empower is 1/Day. He's an NPC for our DM to throw against his PCs. He'll either be dead or TPK by the end of the encounter. None of the players in our current campaign will have immunity to energy types.

I would also point out that I am very conscious about touch attacks. I predominately played Gunslingers in Pathfinder and was threatened with character bans on a nightly basis. It's called a free-action reload after Rapid Shot with a 1d12, x4 touch attack out to 80' while shooting from the nearest roof as a flying tengu. Did I mention they get the BAB of a fighter and a feat list specifically designed for that class only?

[Vhaidara]

RAW never state it DOESN'T stack.

Yes, it does. Armor bonuses to AC do not stack. Mage Armor gives an armor bonus to AC. Armor gives an armor bonus to AC. Ergo, they do not stack.

[UptownMotown]

You said sudden empowered, twinned fireballs followed by a 6d8 breath attack was the go to attack. Thats an average of 105 damage reflex save for half with a DC of 17+Cha mod for the spell and an average of 27 reflex DC14 for half on the breath weapon, which is 1/day. Considering that average CR 20 creatures have 409.33HP and +18.67 to Reflex saves, not to mention spell resistance. To top it off the average bab for CR is 29.56 so even 40+ AC isnt exactly untouchable. It looks like the goal is to play an AoE version of the mailman on a gish chassis and that's pretty much impossible as far as I know. It's late so my math might be off, don't hesitate to let me know if I'm missing something.

If you just want to sling spells something like Wizard5/Incantatrix4/IoSV7/incantatrix4 astral projected from their personal demiplane and shapechanged into a titan brings plenty of firepower, defense, and can wade into melee without fear of much.

If you actually want to be a melee combatant then duskblade19/Spirit lion barbarian1 would be much easier for the dm to run. Alternatively, Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/X8 will give plenty of defense. Seriously there's no real reason for not having divine grace when playing a charisma based gish, especially with all the variant paladins that exist. Also while having a more versatile spell selection.

You mention Warmages being akin to swiss army knives. Warmages out of the can aren't swiss army knives, they're subpar blasters. You make them swiss army knives by expanding your spell list at every possible opportunity, which isn't what's being done here.

Keep in mind this was made upon DM request to use against us and other PCs. It's likely going to be a one-off character unless my DM decides otherwise, and she frequently likes to have character cameos from other campaigns she's run. My character is really the only melee heavy one in the group (Goliath Loin Totem Barbarian 1/Ranger 4/Paladin 5/Cavalier 9). I needed a way to counter myself and the rest of the group.

[UptownMotown]

No combat expertise for you - requires Intelligence 13.

I didn't allocate ability scores. I merely factored in racial modifiers.

[UptownMotown]

And how many of those do something besides dealing x damage? The Orb variants alone are 11 out of those 120 spells, which is almost 10%.

120 spells should be more than enough for a one-off encounter between my DM's new character and our group. However, Versatile Spellcaster lets you exchange two spells for one higher spell. Helps out at later levels.

[UptownMotown]

Yes, it does. Armor bonuses to AC do not stack. Mage Armor gives an armor bonus to AC. Armor gives an armor bonus to AC. Ergo, they do not stack.

In that case, you take Shield. It's also an abjuration spell and satisfies the requirement for Abjuration Champion. That frees the character up to take Power Word: Pain instead. Not a huge deal.

[Vhaidara]

No, you don't. Mage Armor provides a +4 armor bonus. This does not stack with, say, the +8 from wearing full plate.

[UptownMotown]

No, you don't. Mage Armor provides a +4 armor bonus. This does not stack with, say, the +8 from wearing full plate.

As I said above, take Shield instead. You don't have one so there shouldn't be a problem, it's an abjuration spell and satisfies the Abjurant Champion requirement, and frees you up to take Power Word: Pain instead. No biggie.

[Deadline]

In that case, you take Shield. It's also an abjuration spell and satisfies the requirement for Abjuration Champion. That frees the character up to take Power Word: Pain instead. Not a huge deal.

The general rule is that bonuses of the same type don't stack. Mage Armor specifically grants an armor bonus to AC. This won't stack with any other armor bonus to AC, such as that granted by wearing physical armor. Shield is a spell that specifically grants a shield bonus to AC. That one will stack with an armor bonus (different types), but not with another shield bonus (same type).

Also, I'm not sure how this Warmage character is a counter to any of the party members you've mentioned? All three should be able to reliably shrug off Finger of Death (either good saves or Death Ward), and the Fireball spam should only be able to damage the Crusader a little bit. What am I missing that makes this NPC a credible threat to your party?

[UptownMotown]

The general rule is that bonuses of the same type don't stack. Mage Armor specifically grants an armor bonus to AC. This won't stack with any other armor bonus to AC, such as that granted by wearing physical armor. Shield is a spell that specifically grants a shield bonus to AC. That one will stack with an armor bonus (different types), but not with another shield bonus (same type).

Also, I'm not sure how this Warmage character is a counter to any of the party members you've mentioned? All three should be able to reliably shrug off Finger of Death (either good saves or Death Ward), and the Fireball spam should only be able to damage the Crusader a little bit. What am I missing that makes this NPC a credible threat to your party?

Party members are as follows:

-Beguiler (no multiclass). Player refuses to fight. Period. Diplomancing only
-Monk/Ninja/Assassin 1/Ninja of the Crescent Moon. Has pretty much relegated himself to putting poison on shuriken and throwing them in his flurry of blows. Player also chose Shugenja in a previous campaign. Also the only evil character of the group and frequently gets into trouble.
-Druid/Sorcerer/Arcane Hierophant. Not sure yet what she's going to do with this particular build, but she tends to play in the back as a support character. Also hugely healing focused.
-Goliath Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Ranger 4/Paladin 5/Cavalier 9. Myself. Also spend more time than I should trying to keep the party from splitting, much less arguing. Almost entirely melee focused.

Our DM usually dabbles in DM Arcane Voodoo and applies the most random effect s to normally mundane items, amongst other tricks. Unpredictable is an absolute understatement. For instance, she once gave a player a single-use magical feather but made it impossible to know what its effect was. Someone tickled a companion with it and the unfortunate soul turned into a tree. I expect something very similar with this build and is by far the scariest problem.

[Deadline]

Our DM usually dabbles in DM Arcane Voodoo and applies the most random effect s to normally mundane items, amongst other tricks. Unpredictable is an absolute understatement. For instance, she once gave a player a single-use magical feather but made it impossible to know what its effect was. Someone tickled a companion with it and the unfortunate soul turned into a tree. I expect something very similar with this build and by far the scariest problem.

So, if I understand you correctly, the NPC you've built doesn't challenge your party at all, but the DM's arbitrary "enhancements" will?

[Marlowe]

RAW never state it DOESN'T stack. Spell description only states that you add +4 AC. Incorporeal creatures also can't bypass it. Combat Expertise was meant as a melee option when you needed defense, not because it doesn't work with casting. That's what casting defensively is for. I don't really care if Sudden Empower is 1/Day. He's an NPC for our DM to throw against his PCs. He'll either be dead or TPK by the end of the encounter. None of the players in our current campaign will have immunity to energy types.

I would also point out that I am very conscious about touch attacks. I predominately played Gunslingers in Pathfinder and was threatened with character bans on a nightly basis. It's called a free-action reload after Rapid Shot with a 1d12, x4 touch attack out to 80' while shooting from the nearest roof as a flying tengu. Did I mention they get the BAB of a fighter and a feat list specifically designed for that class only?


At this point you've become far too random to even argue with. Defensive Casting does nothing to AC, and whether you're "conscious" about touch attacks or not the fact is this build has little defense against them nor does it seem especially well-built to use them.

If you want to build a suicide bomber, it strikes me there are far easier and more elegant (to say nothing of more legal) ways of doing it.

[sideswipe]

how about this for a crazy idea for a gish, still using your half dragon (would be better without).

human half dragon, cleric 17

feats extend spell, persist spell, DMM persist, and a whole bunch of extra turning (because i CBA to think of better ones)

full BAB, 2 good saves, 9th level spells, all day buffs.

[Xerlith]

Offensive gish builds that work better than what you want, are far simpler and look the same from outside:

Duskblade 15/Abjurant Champion5
Duskblade 20

Duskblade works simply fantastic as a mobile hit-and-run kind of a gish-in-a-can. With a reach weapon and Power Attack you can smack people around like nobody's business. The short spell list is a problem. Feels more like a warrior with some tricks, but can lay some serious hurt on the enemies. Full-attack martial channel works wonders too.

Balanced simple classics:
Pal2/Sorc4/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 - Pump Cha, go crazy. Divine Might works wonders.
Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 Haste junkie, might 2wf if you have the feats for it. Works good as an archer, too. Martial Wizard is your friend.
Wu Jen 5/Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Archmage4 (Body Outside Body + Transcend Mortality Archmage SLA)
Wizard5/Crusader1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion5 (As above, but better spell list at the cost of the aforementioned trick. Still great with Devoted Spirit damage and healing).

Simplistic to a fault:
Battle Sorcerer15/Abjurant Champion5 (maybe with Draconic Template) - Buff up, run around, smack people.

Unconventional:
Warmage4/Rainbow Servant10/Sacred Exorcist1/Abjurant Champion5 - DMM Persist divine might fixed-list clericzilla. Also, Eberron fluff for this one is lovely. Use early entry with Versatile Spellcaster.


I'm really sory, OP, but you made a lot of rookie mistakes while building your gish - the cardinal one being your lack of focus and trying to blast, melee and tank at the same time. That never works too well.

Warmage is really not much more than an archer with fancy ammunition (i stole that from someone), while a gish relies on self-buffs most of the time. Those two just don't mesh well.

[Tysis]

Unconventional:
Warmage4/Rainbow Servant10/Sacred Exorcist1/Abjurant Champion5 - DMM Persist divine might fixed-list clericzilla. Also, Eberron fluff for this one is lovely. Use early entry with Versatile Spellcaster.


What about Warmage1/Paladin2/Rainbow Servant10/Sacred Exorcist1/Silver Pyromancer2/Abjurant Champion4 ?

You miss out on 9th level spells sure but they were going to miss those anyways. You get CL20 for fire spells and half the damage of your fire spells is divine. You get spontaneous access to Warmage, Cleric, and Paladin spells. The paladin spells can be cast as swift actions if you grab battle blessing as a feat. Full BAB, +14 strength, +4con, +4Natural Armor, DR15/evil, large size and 17 temporary hp from persisted Divine Power and Righteous Might. Another +4 strength as a sacred bonus from Righteous Fury and 50 temp hp(I'm not sure if/how temp hp stacks)Righteous Fury is a thrid level Paladin spell you can cast as a swift action, you could cast it every round for the temporary hp. Between that and being able to cast rhino's rush the build is perfectly melee capable.

The build does require a LG alignment but one of the PCs is evil and its the Church of the Silver Flame so its not that unreasonable for him/her to fight the party.Also being lawful good and having cleric spell access, you can toss mage armor to the side and start casting Greater Luminous Armor.

So 33+Dex AC with the addition that enemies have -4 to hit against you, base saves with divine grace, assuming 30CHA, give you Fort+17, Ref+14, and Will+26. DR15/evil and you can gain 50 temp hp as a swift action at the cost of a 3rd level spell slot. So, the monk is almost certainly missing and if he hits you'll almost certainly resist his poison then he has to get past your temp hp and DR. The beguiler is stuck targeting that will save, good luck. The druid is playing support with a theurge build so likely isn't a threat. The pouncebarian could maybe kill you if they went first and got really lucky rolls. However, one casting of divine insight and a scroll of forcecage later that player is no longer a threat. The build gets all kinds of divination magic, so its stands to reason it would get the drop on the party.

With defenses that the party will have an extremely hard time getting around you can play the tactics however you want. Silver Pyromancer lets you throw fire at a level that will be hard for the party to handle and you can beat them in melee with full BAB, a strength score somewhere in the mid 30s to low 40s, and charging with Rhino's Rush.

So, barring the dm rolling a string of ones, this build is likely to stuff the evil monk character into a bag and haul him back to Flamekeep. Unless you want this BBEG (can I still call it that if it's LG) to try to kill players, which its definitely capable of. It seems this does everything you want it to and it has great fluff for an Eberron campaign.

[RoboEmperor]

@OP
Learn to edit your posts o_o. I'm seeing like several chains of quadruple postings.

It seems any advice given from the forum members is instantly rejected with the claim that your build is superior in the gish's intended role.

I understand you are not looking for the most optimized gish builds, but rather looking for a gish that fits your DM's intended usage of the character so could you provide the following?

Exact list of things you want this character to be capable of

So from my reading of your posts, I'm getting these crucial points:
1. AoE blast
2. Melee-ability
3. Intentionally no BFC

and these unsure points
4. Reach level 9 spells by level 20? (If blasting is all you want you don't need anything higher than level 7 spells. AoE blasting peaks with delayed blast fireball)
5. Cast in full plate with 0 arcane spell failure?
6. No crafting at all
7. Has to be arcane spells?
8. Intended BAB? Some people aim for 16 BAB by level 20, other people don't really care as there are other ways of increasing your number of attacks per round.
9. Elemental type is not important? Any real blaster finds ways to change their spell's type, like 1 level or archmage for mastery of elements, or several energy substitution (acid) metamagic feat, but if the NPC is strictly versus your characters, it wouldn't matter much unless the players start casting resist energy.