Suli in 3.5

[DarkEternal]

Heya

The Suli are a pathfinder race that get a +2 to Strength and Charisma and -2 to Intelligence. Aside from that, they get a resistance 5 to all energy types(except sonic). They get some other bonuses, not to mention racial alternatives(such as being able to fight unarmed with any energy type surrounding their fists for extra damage if they go unarmed).

One of my players expressed a wish to play one in 3.5. And they would fit fairly well in the setting, so I'm thinking of letting him play one, but I also don't think this is a LA0 race due to the bonuses they get. They are a 16RP class in Pathfinder, too. So, what would the playground deem them as in 3.5?

[Psyren]

It's fine at 0, lots of 3.5 races are overcosted. If you must adjust it to get away from PF's "Net +2 stat" philosophy, just drop the Str bonus so it is +Cha -Int.

[Honest Tiefling]

Honestly, with races, I tend to look at them and think 'Is there a mechanical reason to take this over a human?'. In many cases...The answer is no. Suli (Along with the elemental races) are pretty subpar. He's trading in a feat and skills for minor elemental resistance and a not-so great power. Sure, it adds damage...To a type of combat that is extremely difficult to make work and he doesn't have the stats for. Sure that elemental resistance is great at lower levels, but it quickly becomes quite weak. Through I must ask, is this an elemental campaign? That might make the resistances a bit more powerful.

[DarkEternal]

Not really an elemental campaign. Though one party is heavily invested in controlling elementals and using their powers, so I'm having a guess this one is making this character also to annoy him.

[Zaq]

WotC would call it LA +1. WotC doesn't like handing out multiple types of energy resistance, they don't like boosting mental stats (every LA 0 race with +CHA has –CON, aside from weird crap like Lesser Aasimar), and they don't like having unbalanced stat boosts.

WotC overvalues a lot of things when it comes to races, though, and I don't think it would crush your game to let them be LA 0. They're more powerful than a lot of "normal" races, but I don't think they're so much more powerful that it's appropriate to charge them an entire level for the privilege of playing one. That said, if I were playing a different, not-top-tier LA 0 race and another player got to use this Suli thing, I might feel a little bit shortchanged. I wouldn't call them more powerful than humans and warforged, but I'd definitely call them more powerful than, say, non-Strongheart halflings or (no DCFS) elves.

If your other players aren't going to feel a little ripped off by sitting at the table with a Suli, then it's not going to actually break anything to allow the Suli as written. If your other players WOULD feel a little ripped off, then you can either offer them some kind of bonus to raise their baseline (maybe just a +2 to another stat, since the stats are the most visibly powerful part of the Suli), or you can remove some goodies from the Suli to bring them down a little bit. I'd say having just one of those two stat boosts, along with dropping the energy resistance to just one type of the player's choice, would probably make them about in line with WotC-approved LA 0 races.

[Kanthalion]

Not really an elemental campaign. Though one party is heavily invested in controlling elementals and using their powers, so I'm having a guess this one is making this character also to annoy him.

I'd also consider your party dynamics here though. If this player is just making this character to annoy another player, is this some table drama you really want to deal with?

[DarkEternal]

Well, annoy is probably a strong word. The fact is, that player is playing a homebrewed elemental user that deals too much stuff and it was an oversight on my part as a DM when I allowed it. He's pretty much the strongest character in the party, if not by sheer damage, then by utility and survivability who can deal all types of energy damage as touch attacks every turn. So, I'm guessing a character with elemental resistances will put a little wrinkle(a really tiny wrinkle) in how he is percieved in the party.

[Red Fel]

At this point, if there's already a player with some OP homebrew, just let the Suli in as LA +0.

Fact is, based on features, Suli are on the fence for me. On the one hand, they have a net +2 to ability modifiers, and the Outsider type, as well as energy resistance and a 1/day damage boost. On the other hand, their ability modifiers are an odd spread (is it a Paladin? a PF Sorc?) and the Outsider type has negatives as well as positives. I could see it being LA +1, barely.

But ultimately, you have a guy who you admit is stronger than you'd like. I'd let this LA slide. Suli isn't so overpowered that people will scream foul.

Of course, if this guy with the homebrew complains, tell him he can reroll a Suli if he wants. Minus the homebrew.

[Kanthalion]

At this point, if there's already a player with some OP homebrew, just let the Suli in as LA +0.

But ultimately, you have a guy who you admit is stronger than you'd like. I'd let this LA slide. Suli isn't so overpowered that people will scream foul.

Of course, if this guy with the homebrew complains, tell him he can reroll a Suli if he wants. Minus the homebrew.

I agree with this. I had a similar problem before when I learned the hard way about the dangers of BoED. Just be careful about power creep if you are trying to balance this homebrew guy, cause that might end up giving you more headaches down the road.

[Vhaidara]

IIRC, PF races are considered effectively LA 0 until you reach 20 points.

[Psyren]

IIRC, PF races are considered effectively LA 0 until you reach 20 points.

Potentially even higher - Svirfneblin are LA 0 at 24 points.

But yeah, race design is like monster design - as much art as science and no numerical system will be perfect on its own.