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Banjoman42
2015-01-12, 05:50 PM
So, I've been doing some work to make Evocation a better school for wizards, and I thought I would write up what I have so far. My goal was to make the school not just be the school all specialist wizards block. Please let me know if you find anything that needs to be changed or added.

First, I started by stealing spells from other schools to give evocation more of a monopoly on damage dealing spells (which, I know, isn't much good)
Acid Splash, Acid Arrow, Flame arrow, Acid fog, Incendiary cloud.

More Importantly, to make all of the damage dealing spells more useful, I increased the dice size for all spells by one (d6-> d8, d8-> d12), with the exception of wall of fire, which I moved all the way to a d8.

Then, I added a whole bunch of spells.

Level 0
Ember: As ray of frost, but fire damage.
Shock: As ray of frost, but lightning damage.
Level 2
Ray of Cold: As ray of frost, but 1d8 damage per level (max 10d8) and medium range.
Level 3
Acid Storm: Cylinder rains acid, dealing 1d8 damage per level.
Level 4
Wall of Lightning: Wall paralyzes those who pass through it.
Level 5
Thunder: Electric shock kills one subject.
Level 7
Blizzard: As ray of frost, but max 20d8 and chance to freeze target.
Lightning blast: 40ft radius sphere deals 1d8 Lightning damage per level, max 20d8.
Level 8
Dual Contingency: As contingency, but two spells or two conditions.
Level 9
Elemental Storm: 4d8 damage from each type of element in a 50 ft radius spread.
Here are the descriptions for those spells: (I didn't include everything, because that would be tedious. Assume they have Verbal and somatic components only unless stated otherwise)

-Acid storm
Components: V, S, M (A drop of water and a pin)
Casting time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft+ 10 ft per level)
Area: Cylinder 15 ft in radius and 50 ft high
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref half
SR: Yes
-Blizzard
As Ray of cold except
Save: Fort Partial
As ray of cold, except the max dice is 20d8 and the subject must make a Fort save or be frozen solid (similar to being Held) for 1 round per level. Dealing at least 10 fire damage to the ice frees the subject, or by spending 1 minute chipping away at the ice.
-Dual Contingency
As contingency, except that you may have two spells on your person, either both for one condition or for two separate ones. This spell does not stack with itself or Contingency.
-Elemental storm
Evocation [Sonic, Fire, Lightning, Cold, Acid]
Casting time: 1 Full round
Save: Ref half for each element
SR: yes
This spell deals 6d8 sonic, fire, lightning, acid, and cold damage in a 50 ft radius. The storm creates a large amount of noise that last until your next action. All creatures entering the area within 1 round must make a Fortitude save or be deafened for 1d6+2 rounds. To cast a spell during the noise, a caster must succeed on a concentration check (DC equals Elemental storms' save+5).
-Lightning storm
Evocation [Lightning]
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long
Save: Ref half
SR: yes
1d8 lightning damage per level in a 40 ft radius sphere
-Thunder
Evocation [Lightning] [Death]
Range: Long
Save: Fort Partial
SR: yes
You send an electrical shock through one living creature. They must succeed on a Fortitude save or die. Even on a successful save, the creature still takes 3d8 lightning damage. Creatures immune to electricity are not immune to this spell, but they receive a +4 bonus on their saving throws.
-Wall of Lightning
Area: Opaque sheet of Lightning up to 20 ft.
long/level
Duration: Concentration + 1
round/level or 1 round/level
Save: Fort Negates
Anyone who passes through the wall must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round per level.


I know that this isn't enough to make evocation a worthwhile school, but I am working on buffing the pre-existing spells to be a little bit better. I particularly want to add more utility and Battle field control spells to the school, so if anyone has any suggestions, they would be gladly appreciated.

Edit: More spells:
Haven't worked out all the details of these spells yet, not sure on the levels for Screech.

-Desert Wind
Evocation [Fire]
Sor/Wiz 5
Components: S
Effect: Heated wind, coming outwards in a line from you
Range: Medium
Area: 10 ft wide
Duration: 1 round/level (sickening effect)
Save: Fort negates (sickening) and Reflex (push from wind)
A hot blast of air shoots in a line away from you. All creatures in the area take 5d8 fire damage (no save). Second, all creatures in the area are pushed back 5 ft per caster level, reflex negates. Lastly, all creatures in the area must make a fortitude saving throw or be sickened for 1 round/ caster level.
-Screech
Evocation [Sonic]
Sor/Wiz ? (maybe bard as well, not sure)
Components: V
Effect: A horrid sound that immobilizes nearby creatures.
Area: 30 ft. sphere, centered on you
Save: Fortitude negates
SR: Yes
You create a terrible sound, like nails on a chalk board. All creatures within 30 ft of you must make a Fortitude saving throw or take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls. Those within 20 ft must make an additional Fort save or have an extra -2 on attacks, saves, and effective dexterity. Lastly, all creatures within 10 ft must make a Fort save or be immobilized with pain. The effects are cumulative.

Break resistances feat (edit)
Prereqs: none
Benefit: Choose two types of energy (Sonic, Fire, Lightning, Cold, Acid) Whenever you cast a spell of this type, you ingore resistances equal to your level times 1.5.

Kamai
2015-01-12, 08:00 PM
I agree that Evocation needs more, but I don't agree with Thunder being a way to go. Spell level 4 is too low for a single save or die, as those spells need to come online with Raise Dead, not Reincarnation (Phantasmal Killer is an exception, but it's also 2 saves or die).

I'll also say that Elemental Storm is not something that I'd cast as a 9th level spell. Not when I could just at the same level slot throw a Wail of the Banshee, or throw a Prismatic Sphere, let alone an actual broken spell from Core.

I even liked where Blizzard was going, but only a 2% chance/cl and then the save or freeze made this a lot less shiny. For what this does, I'd almost rather have Baleful Polymorph, again let alone other spells.

Since I probably shouldn't leave without giving a couple of my own ideas (though I haven't really sanity checked spell levels yet):


Iron Pull
Evocation (electricity)
Wiz/Sor 6, Alch 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Duration: 1 round/Caster Level
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/Caster level)
Area: Up to 1 5ft cube/level (see text)
SR: Partial (see Text) Saving Throw: None

You concentrate massive amounts of static electricity into one object or even the ground itself. The Area of the spell must be continuous, and every 5ft cube must have an object in it. Every round, the object makes a special grapple check (CMB of 5 + Caster level + casting stat, CMD of 16 + Caster level + Casting Stat) on any creature within 5 feet every 3 caster levels (max 30 feet at 18th). This spell gains a +5 bonus to it's grapple check against any

creature with more than 10 lbs of metal objects or wearing metal armor. If this check succeeds, the creature is automatically pulled into an adjacent square. If the spell cannot bring a creature to an adjacent square, the creature, instead of being subject to the spell's secondary effects, is instead subject to a pin, leaving them against the obstruction. Any grapple effects of this spell are not subject to Spell Resistance.

As a secondary effect, at the end of any creature's turn that it is successfully grappled by it, the creature takes 6d10 lightning damage, and is subject to a pin attempt. A creature that is pinned adjacent to the target of this spell is instead subject to 60 lightning damage (If the spell was maximized, the damage is doubled, and any feats or items that affect this spells damage treat the spell as if it had rolled 6d10). This damage is subject to spell resistance and energy resistance.

Special: An Alchemist uses this infusion as if it were an oil on the object. It isn't necessary that he can reach all parts of the object, but he must be able to reach some part of the object (treating this as touch range), and the action takes the same time as applying an oil (usually a full-round action). The Alchemist using this infusion is not subject to any effects of it.

Note: For 3.5, this effect has a strength of 12 + caster level (max 27), and is considered Large sized, no matter what size the object itself is.

Cold Snap
Evocation (Cold)
Wiz/Sor 5, Druid 5
Components: V, S, M (a unmelted snowball)
Casting Time: 1 Swift action
Duration: Instantaneous
Range: 0ft
Area: 30ft burst
SR: Yes Saving throw: Fort Partial

An burst of icy wind surrounds you, cutting into the exposed skin of any nearby creature other than yourself. This does 1d4 cold damage/2 caster levels (max 10d4 damage at 20th), and any creature affected by it is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. This also blows creatures away as if it were a Gust of Wind spell, but all creatures are considered 2 sizes smaller than normal.

If this spell is saved against, it does half damage, does not fatigue, and blows them back exactly as the Gust of Wind spell. If you need to roll a concentration check to cast this spell, you gain a +10 bonus to the check.


Giant's Voice
Evocation (Sonic)
Sor/Wiz 4, Bard 3
Components: V, S, M(A small bell)
Casting time: 1 standard action
Duration: 10 min/level
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 caster levels)
SR: Yes, Save: Fortitude negates

The target's voice is multiplied many fold in a hard to control way. First, the target takes a penalty to stealth, diplomacy, and bluff checks equal to twice your caster level (max 30) as this spell makes even soft breathing audible. Secondly, if the target makes an attack roll or takes damage, the target may make a saving throw (but he is aware of the consequences). If he succeeds this saving throw, he takes 3d6 sonic damage from holding the loud voice in. If he fails (or doesn't take) the saving throw, all non-deaf creatures and all objects within 60ft take 1d6 sonic damage. This damage bypasses hardness.

As a side effect, any failed save (other than the initial casting) allows the target to be heard from up to 1 mile away. The target, if not under stress, can use this (taking 1d6 sonic damage for every 2 rounds of conversation, min 1d6) to be heard clearly from up 2 miles away.

Furnace of the Nine Hells
Evocation (Fire)
Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 full round
Duration: 10 mins/level
Range: 200 ft radius centered on yourself
SR: Yes(see text), Saving throw: Fortitude Partial

You quickly increase the temperature of the area around to rival the Nine Hells themselves. Other than yourself, all creatures and objects in the area take 6d6 fire damage per round (no save). A creature that takes any damage from this spell is exhausted (fatigued instead on a successful Fortitude save). If the creature takes at least 10 damage, the creature is on fire, doing an extra 3d6 fire damage per round. A creature cannot attempt a save to stop the fire unless they take a full-round action, and then they are allowed to make a Reflex save to negate being on fire. A creature that takes any damage from this spell immediately suffers from dehydration, and all damage caused by this spell cannot be healed until the creature is no longer dehydrated. Spell resistance cannot apply to this spell unless the target is under the effect of Endure elements or Planar Adaptation, and even then, the creature must make a Spell Resistance check once per minute in the area.

Any non-magical liquids exposed to this spell immediately evaporate, and any magical liquids are destroyed unless they can survive a dispel check at the spell's caster level with a +5 bonus. Cold and water spells are nearly impossible to cast in this area, with this spell getting an immediate dispel to counterspell against any of these spells, using this spell's caster level with a +10 bonus.

jedipotter
2015-01-12, 11:33 PM
Your new spells are, vaguely, ok.....but they are just more spells that do damage. And having Thunder be a lighting/electric spell....but not be one...is just odd.

Just check out all the damage types:
Fire
Cold
Electricity
Acid
Positive Energy
Negative Energy
Piercing
Bludgeoning
Slashing
Force
Sonic
Divine
Untyped
Vile
Non-Lethal

So why not just make ''thunder'' sonic damage?


Break resistances feat, just does not do enough. At 20th level ignore 10 points? A 3rd level wizard or cleric gives 10 points, and the 11th+ level ones 30 points. Way too low.

Have you seen Frostburn or Sandstorm or the PH II. They have the ''too hot or cold' feat that makes at half of the damage from a fire or cold spell untestable. You could expand on them.

Banjoman42
2015-01-13, 04:29 PM
I agree that Evocation needs more, but I don't agree with Thunder being a way to go. Spell level 4 is too low for a single save or die, as those spells need to come online with Raise Dead, not Reincarnation (Phantasmal Killer is an exception, but it's also 2 saves or die).

I'll also say that Elemental Storm is not something that I'd cast as a 9th level spell. Not when I could just at the same level slot throw a Wail of the Banshee, or throw a Prismatic Sphere, let alone an actual broken spell from Core.

I even liked where Blizzard was going, but only a 2% chance/cl and then the save or freeze made this a lot less shiny. For what this does, I'd almost rather have Baleful Polymorph, again let alone other spells.

Since I probably shouldn't leave without giving a couple of my own ideas (though I haven't really sanity checked spell levels yet):


I get all that with thunder, it was a typo. As for Elemental storm, moving the damage to 6d8 and addeding a deafening effect. Mind you, that's 6 saves for a single spell, so the chances of them not being affeccted at all are much lower than wail of the banshee. I sort of hesitated on Blizzard, and your'e right. Think I'll make it just a straight save or freeze.

Banjoman42
2015-01-13, 04:33 PM
Your new spells are, vaguely, ok.....but they are just more spells that do damage. And having Thunder be a lighting/electric spell....but not be one...is just odd.

Just check out all the damage types:
Fire
Cold
Electricity
Acid
Positive Energy
Negative Energy
Piercing
Bludgeoning
Slashing
Force
Sonic
Divine
Untyped
Vile
Non-Lethal

So why not just make ''thunder'' sonic damage?


Break resistances feat, just does not do enough. At 20th level ignore 10 points? A 3rd level wizard or cleric gives 10 points, and the 11th+ level ones 30 points. Way too low.

Have you seen Frostburn or Sandstorm or the PH II. They have the ''too hot or cold' feat that makes at half of the damage from a fire or cold spell untestable. You could expand on them.
Yea, just checked the math on the feat now; I was doing this sort of fast as a rough draft. Haven't seen those feats from those books, but then again I've only glanced at them.

As for thunder, it is a lightning spell, it just doesn't deal only damage.
I don't understand, why are you listing all the damage types?
Edit: I see the feats now, but those are metamagic. Why would you want a 4th level fireball when you could just have Phantasmal killer and end the encounter?

jedipotter
2015-01-14, 01:02 AM
With thunder you have the run around of ''the spell deals electrical damage that is not electrical damage'', so why not just make it another damage type other then electricity?

Evocation needs more damage types. Not just the same handful. The spell ''fireblast'' is great, but it just does more Fire damage....again.


In my game I add [Air], [Earth] and [Water] to the energy damage types. The idea is the spell uses pure elemental energy. So Stonebolt is a 3rd level [Earth] type evocation attack spell. More energy attacks are good.

I don't really care for the feats, just pointing them out.

Banjoman42
2015-01-14, 04:38 PM
-Thunder
Evocation [Lightning] [Death]
Range: Long
Save: Fort Partial
SR: yes
You send an electrical shock through one living creature. They must succeed on a Fortitude save or die. Even on a successful save, the creature still takes 3d8 lightning damage. Creatures immune to electricity are not immune to this spell, but they receive a +4 bonus on their saving throws.


It does deal lightning damage, but only on a successful save. On a failed save, it kills the person outright.

The problem with adding new energy types is that those new types have no creatures that have resistances to them, and they are horribly unbalanced in that way. So what if spells deal the same energy type? It doesn't affect anything at all if there are more spells of a certain energy. What matters is that evocation has no way of breaking said resistances, without metamagic that make spells use higher level slots.

Andion Isurand
2015-01-15, 01:44 AM
I don't think spellcasters should be dealing any more damage with any kind of spell, even if its being added to help the evocation school. The role of physical combat should not be diminished any further.

I wouldn't mind seeing more damaging evocations that also inflict a minor debuff (on its own or with a feat)... typically very brief debuffs... many of which aren't tied to a spell's actual duration, and are not the product of ongoing magical effects such that they can be dispelled.

jedipotter
2015-01-15, 02:46 PM
The problem with adding new energy types is that those new types have no creatures that have resistances to them, and they are horribly unbalanced in that way. So what if spells deal the same energy type? It doesn't affect anything at all if there are more spells of a certain energy. What matters is that evocation has no way of breaking said resistances, without metamagic that make spells use higher level slots.

That is kinda the point. When a spell does 10D6 [Water] damage, no one has resistance or immunity to that. Though, for a more balanced game you can give others resistance/immunity. But still, more energy types is a good thing. When there are more energy types, there is more of a mix. In D&D right now you can get Cold/Fire immunity and be immune to more then half of the attack spells. But add in Earth, Air and Water and not so much....

Banjoman42
2015-01-15, 04:58 PM
I don't think spellcasters should be dealing any more damage with any kind of spell, even if its being added to help the evocation school. The role of physical combat should not be diminished any further.

If the spells aren't any good, they aren't diminishing combat at all, are they? For the sake of this thread, let's assume that martials vs. casters isn't a problem.


That is kinda the point. When a spell does 10D6 [Water] damage, no one has resistance or immunity to that. Though, for a more balanced game you can give others resistance/immunity. But still, more energy types is a good thing. When there are more energy types, there is more of a mix. In D&D right now you can get Cold/Fire immunity and be immune to more then half of the attack spells. But add in Earth, Air and Water and not so much....
That's why we have acid and electircity, and even force and sonic as well. By the time you have built up immunities to all of those with spells, you've just given the opponent a great amount of time to kill you another way.

Also, do you know how much time it would take to find all the creatures that need resistances to a new energy, let alone setting aside the actual amount of resistance? Trust me, I tried this in one of my early games, I spent a good 3 hours before I realized I was making no progress. Not to mention, it the new energy types make little to no sense on how they deal damage. How does water hurt anything other than a fire creature? If Air just cuts at you, wouldn't it be sonic, or slashing?

Any way, does anyone have ideas on spells or feats that are more specific and easier to work out, or at least tweaks on what I already have?

jedipotter
2015-01-15, 11:13 PM
Any way, does anyone have ideas on spells or feats that are more specific and easier to work out, or at least tweaks on what I already have?

They work great in my game, but if you don't want to hear about it, fine.

I'm not sure what you want too add to Evocation.

Feats:
Spreading Evocation
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Benefit:Burst-type evocation spells that you cast become Spreads. Cover does not provide a bonus to Reflex saves made against your altered spread evocation spells. Those in the area of your altered spread evocation spells receive no benefit from Evasion, Improved Evasion, Prescient Sense, or other similar abilities.

Devastating Evocation
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Benefit: Those affected and who fail their save by any instantaneous evocation spell you cast become dazzled for 1 round. Those affected by your instantaneous evocation spells of at least 4th level are also sickened for 1 round. Those affected by your instantaneous evocation spells of at least 7th level are also entangled for 1 round.

Banjoman42
2015-01-16, 06:50 PM
They work great in my game, but if you don't want to hear about it, fine.

I'm not sure what you want too add to Evocation.

Feats:
Spreading Evocation
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Benefit:Burst-type evocation spells that you cast become Spreads. Cover does not provide a bonus to Reflex saves made against your altered spread evocation spells. Those in the area of your altered spread evocation spells receive no benefit from Evasion, Improved Evasion, Prescient Sense, or other similar abilities.

Devastating Evocation
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Benefit: Those affected and who fail their save by any instantaneous evocation spell you cast become dazzled for 1 round. Those affected by your instantaneous evocation spells of at least 4th level are also sickened for 1 round. Those affected by your instantaneous evocation spells of at least 7th level are also entangled for 1 round.
Anything that makes evocation more viable of a school.

Feats seem good, but devastating evocation might be metamagic, and slightly longer duration. Might want to but more prereqs on spreading evocation, because it seems a little bit too good. Great ideas though.