What components for what school

[Blackhawk748]

Yes we are talking about this again, but dont worry we are gonna be more constructive about this. It was mentioned on another thread that it would be interesting to have one material component or one type of component per school, then i was reminded that DDO does something similar, except that its a different component per spell level. I think it would be interesting to combine the two, while that is 72 different types of components, thats a fair amount less than there are right now. Obviously ones with expensive components would use those over these new inexpensive ones.

Now, what should we use for what school and level?

Edit: thought of something interesting, use a bit of a creature (their blood, a toenail w/e) that has a subtype (Cold, Fire etc) as a stand in for its usual component. Example your out of the Conjuration component but you want to cast Ice Storm, but you just killed a Frost Troll, snag a claw and you can cast it.

[Coidzor]

Necromancy naturally suggests something like Charcoal or Coal > Gemstone quality Jet > Obsidian > Black Onyx > Crystalized Negative Energy > Souls infused with Negative Energy > Undead Souls > Crystalized Essence of the Negative Energy Plane > Crystalized Purified Essence of magic/all planes that has then been suffused with negative energy and bound with necromantic magics.

So up to 4th level spells are mundanely acquirable, 5th level spells requires access to special places or magical techniques or the Negative Energy Plane itself, and then 6th level and higher souls are even more exotic and removed from the mundane economy.

It also provides a sort of guideline as well, lower level spells should be more familiar to mortals in what they require and then 6th to 9th level spells are alien to most people, so the required components for such can be similarly alien to the people of the material plane. Indeed, I'd say that the 9th level material component basically follows that it's the very essence of magic or the planes themselves, that has had several spells worth of whatever school used to slant it towards whatever use you'd want to put it towards.

[Flickerdart]

Enchantment's material component should be a turnip that looks exactly like a thingy (http://youtu.be/krgUVduKFL4?t=1m54s).

[Qwertystop]

Interesting. Reminds me of a couple of things I saw once - I don't even remember who it was, but someone homebrewed a few optional material components. Not required for any spell, use them with the right spells to get a little bit extra. Low-cost but high enough to need counting, like getting arrows made of special materials - a cheap little boost when you need it, but not something to use by default.

Not quite the same, but it did have the whole "same material component for a whole bunch of similar spells."

School/level might sort of work, but it still makes it feel like ammunition (the same as DDO did). Going by subtype feels more thematic, but again, I don't personally like the "ammunition" feeling of it. And if they're untracked (and only exist for fluff), per-spell or subtype-based feel more interesting on their own.

I could see it working, though - the mage with a hundred different magic powders is an image that comes to mind. It just doesn't feel like it works well with Vancian casting; more of a long-cast-time ritual-spell thing or a system where the components are the main limitation instead of a secondary one. Perhaps a refluff of Dragonfire Adept, casting out mystic or alchemical powders instead of a breath weapon... but that would have a nonsense-for-the-fluff cooldown instead of the surprisingly-reasonable ammo count.

Okay, I want to make that character now, as soon as I figure out how to make it work.

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To get back on topic, I think Divination spells would likely use increasingly important bits of glass. Cantrips and first-levels can work well enough with cullet, but mid-level spells might need exceptionally large chunks of quartz, and ninth-level spells would need the the pure luck embodied in an unbroken fulgurite struck under a clear sky.

Transmutation... perhaps malleable things, either physically or metaphorically? A bit of clay for the low end, live amoeba in the midrange, a bottled dream at the top? No... the dream might be better in Enchantment.

Illusion would go nicely with mirrors, but that might be too close to Divination.

Evocation likes things that are energetic, but don't just stick with things that burn. The leap of a grasshopper is energetic in its own way, or the bang of a book snapped shut - though that grasshopper won't be able to jump again for a long time, and the pages that book closed on will never again be opened, so that book won't last forever either.

[Auron3991]

Abjuration could be something along the lines of Leather->Steel->Dragonscale->Adamantite (sorry, only have enough creative juice for first four levels).

[Qwertystop]

Necromancy naturally suggests something like Charcoal or Coal > Gemstone quality Jet > Obsidian > Black Onyx > Crystalized Negative Energy > Souls infused with Negative Energy > Undead Souls > Crystalized Essence of the Negative Energy Plane > Crystalized Purified Essence of magic/all planes that has then been suffused with negative energy and bound with necromantic magics.

So up to 4th level spells are mundanely acquirable, 5th level spells requires access to special places or magical techniques or the Negative Energy Plane itself, and then 6th level and higher souls are even more exotic and removed from the mundane economy.

It also provides a sort of guideline as well, lower level spells should be more familiar to mortals in what they require and then 6th to 9th level spells are alien to most people, so the required components for such can be similarly alien to the people of the material plane. Indeed, I'd say that the 9th level material component basically follows that it's the very essence of magic or the planes themselves, that has had several spells worth of whatever school used to slant it towards whatever use you'd want to put it towards.

Personally, I prefer the components with a more metaphorical weight to them. Necromancy is about death. Low level spells can consume fertilized hen's eggs, or small insects crushed between the fingers. The top end might need something like an acorn from a tree watered only by the caster's own blood for a decade, life spilled to the ground to feed more life, only to be snuffed out to fuel the spell. If life and healing ever get put back into Necromancy instead of making it the "evil and creepy stuff" school, give those spells a focus instead of a component to avoid the destruction - Reincarnate might have to be cast over a clutch (is that the word?) of fish eggs just as they hatch, the power of so many new lives, small though they might be, allowing a single deceased to get their own new life.

Instead of making magic the requirement for more magic, invest meaning in the components, with magic as a secondary requirement at best.

[NNescio]

... Evocation likes things that are energetic, but don't just stick with things that burn. The leap of a grasshopper is energetic in its own way, or the bang of a book snapped shut - though that grasshopper won't be able to jump again for a long time, and the pages that book closed on will never again be opened, so that book won't last forever either.

A box of degenerate matter.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Alternate suggestion: Different components for different descriptors. So your [force] spells require a bit of perfectly clear glass, your [fire] spells require coal, and so on. That way the component is tied a bit more closely to the content of the spell. You could still vary by school or level if you want.

[Coidzor]

Personally, I prefer the components with a more metaphorical weight to them. Necromancy is about death. Low level spells can consume fertilized hen's eggs, or small insects crushed between the fingers. The top end might need something like an acorn from a tree watered only by the caster's own blood for a decade, life spilled to the ground to feed more life, only to be snuffed out to fuel the spell. If life and healing ever get put back into Necromancy instead of making it the "evil and creepy stuff" school, give those spells a focus instead of a component to avoid the destruction - Reincarnate might have to be cast over a clutch (is that the word?) of fish eggs just as they hatch, the power of so many new lives, small though they might be, allowing a single deceased to get their own new life.

Instead of making magic the requirement for more magic, invest meaning in the components, with magic as a secondary requirement at best.

Actual meaning works too, yeah, rather than expanding/codifying the whole gems = magic thing.

Though it seems one might need to be carting around an awful lot of living orphans/large multicellular lifeforms in one's bags of holding/portable holes for 9th level spells in that case.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think it would be cool to mix things up a bit and follow the rule of three. Each spell requires three things: a school component, a spell level component, and an optional descriptor components.

School components
Abjur - Silver dust
Conj - Magic oils
Div - herbs
Ench - incense
Evoc - crystal
Illus - silk
Necro - onyx
Trans - wood
Universal - nothing
These are assumed to be used up in the casting of a spell, but slowly and in small amounts. A material component pouch hold enough to cast 100's of each school's spells. Pouches ARE divided by school normally, so a generalist normally carries 9 pouches on their belt. This has not additional cost, the 9 pouch set costs the same as a standard 3.5 spell component pouch. This is purely to prevent a wizard form being divided from his magic by a simple disarm.

Then, each spell level requires a focus of a different matieral. Each is a small rod 1-2" long and about an 1/8th inch thick, covered in fine runes.
0 - iron
1 - copper
2 - steel
3 - deep crystal
4 - silver
5 - electrum
6 - gold
7 - platinum
8 - mithral
9 - adimantium

Wizards normally carry 3-4 sets of the rods, as each is fairly cheap. The level 0-3 rods cost 5 coppers, the 4-5 rods cost 5 silver, the 6-8 cost 5 gold, and the 9th costs 50 gold. These rods must be attuned to the wizard who uses them. This is done by holding them on your skin while you rest to recover your spells. You can attune as many rods as you wish, and once attuned, they read as faintly magical to detect magic. For formal occasions they are worn as a necklace, showing the relative power of each wizard in a gathering. To wear a rod you are not able to attune to is considered a social embarrassment.

Finally, spells can be powered by an extra component to increase their power. This is defined by the descriptor of the spell and cost gold 2.5 for a 0st level spell and doubling for each spell level (5 at 1st, 10 at 2nd, 20 at 3rd, 40 at 4th, 80 at 5th, 160 at 6th, 320 at 7th, 640 at 8th, and 1280 at 9th). This adds 1+1per5 spellcaster levels to the spell's caster level. These components are almost always gems of some kind.

Suggestions for optional components
Fire - ruby
Cold - sapphire
Earth - Jade
Air - Topaz
Force - Diamond
Creation - Garnet
Ect.

This would work well for a higher magic setting with formal guilds of wizards. It adds some social dynamics and IC reasons for things to be organized as they are in the rules. A 5th level spells requires a 5th level focus. Everyone KNOWS what a 5th level spells is with a spellcraft or knowledge arcana check. Wizards can be grouped into levels based on what magic they have access to, and sub-devided based on higher or lesser of each rank (a 3th level wizard is a junior 2nd circle wizard, a 4th level wizard is a senior 2nd circle wizard, a 5th level wizard graduates to a junior 3rd circle wizard when he gets 3rd level spells).

[ericgrau]

I noticed when I was thinking of making an expensive material component spammer that illusion uses a lot of jade dust.

[Coidzor]

Wizards can be grouped into levels based on what magic they have access to, and sub-devided based on higher or lesser of each rank (a 4th level wizard is a junior 2nd circle wizard, a 5th level wizard is a senior 2nd circle wizard, a 6th level wizard graduates to a junior 3rd circle wizard when he gets 3rd level spells).

I think you just confused Wizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard) with Sorcerers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#sorcerer). :smallconfused:

Wizards get 3rd level spells at 5th level. Sorcerers get 3rd level spells at 6th level. Sorcerers not getting 2nd level spells until 4th level does put a kink into defining how they'd be referred to for the first three levels, even bringing in Apprentice level 0 stuff to even out the number of levels considered.

[Fouredged Sword]

Bah, my quick reference to the SRD failed due to me looking at the wrong class table.

Seriously, why did they give every class their own page EXCEPT the sorcerer and wizard?

[Vhaidara]

Bah, my quick reference to the SRD failed due to me looking at the wrong class table.

Seriously, why did they give every class their own page EXCEPT the sorcerer and wizard?

Because, if you look in the PHB, you will find that the Sorcerer's 4 pages contain 1.5 pages of fluff, 2 pages of "Sidebar: Familiars", and .5 pages of tables. Oh, and an entry saying they get simple weapons.

[Blackhawk748]

Alternate suggestion: Different components for different descriptors. So your [force] spells require a bit of perfectly clear glass, your [fire] spells require coal, and so on. That way the component is tied a bit more closely to the content of the spell. You could still vary by school or level if you want.

I honestly think this would be cool, obviously a game where this is the norm would probably be low magic as well more "barbaric"

Hell lets mix all three ideas and just say you need at least one of them, this causes less strain on the caster and still has you concerned about "ammo"

[Tarvus]

Interesting. Reminds me of a couple of things I saw once - I don't even remember who it was, but someone homebrewed a few optional material components. Not required for any spell, use them with the right spells to get a little bit extra. Low-cost but high enough to need counting, like getting arrows made of special materials - a cheap little boost when you need it, but not something to use by default.

Isn't this very similar to the Metamagic Components from Unearthed Arcana?
UA's ones reproduce pretty much any of the core metamagics, but at the cost of an expensive additional component. Its spell specific too, so heightening Web requires Ritually prepared drider silk while Extending Unseen Servant requires the sacrifice of a fancy valet's uniform. What you describe is similar, just at lower power (a bonus to saves for example, rather than heightening for example)

As an additional aside to that, there are some interesting metaphorical links/references in those spell/MM component couples as well, might be worth checking out for inspiration for the op.