idiot crusader

[geekintheground]

what level does the idiot crusader come start getting his maneuvers refreshed every round? there are probably different versions but this is the one im looking at: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8218.0
i honestly just cant seem to wrap my head around it as cool as it is...

[Feint's End]

I'm honestly not sure if this build is legal but I'm AFB right now so I'll have to take a look later on

[Bakkan]

The basic idea behind the Idiot Crusader is to build it in such a way as to have at least as many maneuvers granted as known. Since this necessarily means that he has more maneuvers readied than known, we get into a situation that the rules of the game are silent on. What happens when a character is able to ready more maneuvers than he knows requires DM adjudication. The Idiot Crusader relies on a DM ruling that in this situation, you simply ignore the additional ``readied maneuver'' slots that you can't fill. In the absence of the Idiot Crusader, this is the easiest and most straightforward ruling, but some DMs may rule differently specifically in order to make the Idiot Crusader impossible.

Once we have that the Idiot Crusader can work (based on DMs ruling), we require another ruling which determines the minimum level that an Idiot Crusader can do his thing. Specifically, we need to know whether two different martial adepts can select the same maneuver as a known maneuver. As far as I can tell, the rules are not clear on this question.

Option 1: A single character with two or more martial adept classes cannot know the same maneuver through two classes.

With this option we can obtain the magical "maneuvers known = maneuvers granted" condition by taking Crusader after taking one or more Swordsage or Warblade levels in order to lock the Crusader class out of some of its potential maneuvers known. This can be accomplished at level 3 by taking one or two levels of Warblade, making sure to pick three of the maneuvers from Stone Dragon and White Raven as maneuvers known, and then taking two or one levels of Crusader and the Extra Granted Maneuver feat at 3rd level. The Crusader only has access to six level 1 maneuvers, and the Warblade level(s) have already taken three of them. The Crusader is therefore only able to pick the three remaining maneuvers, and he has three maneuvers granted at this level. This build can be adjusted so that you take Crusader level to get access to higher-level maneuvers, but you will need a lot more levels of Warblade (and probably Swordsage also) to make sure to lock out all but a few of the Crusader maneuvers.

Pros of using this method: Comes online very quickly
Cons of using this method: This method requires on an additional DM ruling; it is harder to get higher-level maneuvers to your Idiot

Option 2: A single character with two or more martial adept classes can know the same maneuver through two classes.

In this case we obtain parity of known and granted maneuvers by taking prestige classes which add to maneuvers readied (and hence granted), but make sure that we don't add too many maneuvers known. This is actually easier than it sounds by RAW. In the description of how prestige classes advance martial adept progression on page 96 of Tome of Battle, Maneuvers Known and Maneuvers Readied are two separate sections and each one includes language indicating that you select one of your martial adept progressions to advance. Nothing suggests that the two benefits have to be to the same class. Therefore the idea is to take a prestige class, give all the maneuvers known to another martial adept (i.e. Swordsage or Warblade) and give all the maneuvers readied (and granted) to Crusader. Something like Swordsage 6/Crusader 1/Master of Nine 2 (with Extra Granted Maneuver) accomplishes this at level 9 and I think that's the earliest this method works.

Pros of using this method: Requires no additional DM ruling; can get higher-level maneuvers simply by taking Crusader + PrC later in the build, can include more levels of Crusader for Crusadery goodness; doesn't require your other class to take lot of potentially less useful maneuvers simply because they are also on the Crusader list
Cons of using this method: Comes online later; must fulfill prerequisites of a prestige class 9partiacularly onerous if you're using Master of Nine, the otherwise best prestige class for this method)


Generally when I theorycraft an Idiot Crusader I use Option 2. I find that I have more flexibility and can get more power into the character with it.