Most Powerful Race

[Pinkcrusade]

Greetings, Playground.

I was looking over some books (mainly monster dominate books), and it brought about the question of: if banded together, which race would have the highest probability of asserting world dominance? My contention was that Illithids would be the most likely to succeed, as according to their lore they have already done it once, and if you look at their abilities and minions they seem quite capable of total world domination.

This is a discussion for the entirety of a race, not based on individual power.

[atemu1234]

If they'd stop with all the backstabbing, Drow actually stand a fighting chance of ruling the underdark, if not the surface world.

If they could avoid dying a little bit more, Kobolds could literally breed every other race out of existence.

[Xelbiuj]

I don't think there is a standard population size which would really be necessary to give a good answer, well that and reproduction.
Uh, demons or devils, conically it's infinite. Though if it has to be particular ones . . .

Beholders could do well.
Wright apocalypse?

Maybe prismatic dragons, just because they're so boss.
Humans if we're considering pcs, etc. . .

[atemu1234]

I don't think there is a standard population size which would really be necessary to give a good answer, well that and reproduction.
Uh, demons or devils, conically it's infinite. Though if it has to be particular ones . . .

Beholders could do well.
Wright apocalypse?

Maybe prismatic dragons, just because they're so boss.
Humans if we're considering pcs, etc. . .

Water Orcs if we consider personal strengths, I'm surprised that Bahamut hasn't just recruited them all yet :smallwink:.

[Pinkcrusade]

I also feel that if the Githyanki devised a raid on the Material Plane they would be able to do quite well.

[Summerstorm]

Eh, Githyanki are having too many problems. (Getting bashed by the Mindflayers and their better cousins, the Githzerai)

I would say: Humans look like they already won most of it (But because they are pretty nice overall and not THAT big on genocide they allowed the elves, dwarves etc. to flourish alongside)

But if they would REALLY want it, and they get a short prep-time: The Kobolds would decimate everything. Think about it: In the Races of the dragon it is stated that they mature completely in about 5-6 Years (They can run and play/ talk / help out at about two year old - if i remember correctly)
The race is know for being: loyal to their community, driven/ambitious, industrious, clever, ruthlessly brutal and having a high percentage of sorcerors (Or random people with SLA's).

Now give them time and ressources and you have exponential growth of beeings with human-like minds, penchant for magic and an even greater sense of the small community (The only thing they miss is the "bigger Picture"-Kingdom building of the dwarves and humans.)

Kobolds will steamroll everything with numbers and cruelty.

[Forrestfire]

The illithids at the height of their power in the current timeline still lost to the combined might of the lower planes, so while they're good contenders, I don't think they're the strongest (although admittedly, there aren't a lot of races that could deal with that sort of thing, so it might be irrelevant). Overall, I'd say humanity or kobolds, through both races' ability to breed incredibly fast combined with the benefits given by their own natural abilities.

Or, as noted below, Demons. They're kinda scary.

[Telonius]

Warforged could be a possibility, due to a "doomsday device" or other apocalyptic scenario. They naturally don't eat, don't breathe, poison doesn't affect them, neither does disease. So they can contemplate using the sorts of weapons that the rest of the races couldn't. Their biggest problems are reproduction (or lack thereof), small numbers generally, and lack of natural healing. The trick would be getting the first strike, and hitting enough of the Material Plane that they can mop up the survivors.

[Honest Tiefling]

Demons. There's an infinite number of them, so if they could band together better they might actually be able to defeat the Devils in the Bloodwar, and then wreck havoc everywhere.

[Eldan]

Pretty definitely the Tanar'ri, yeah. Ethergaunts are a good contender, too, by sheer magical power.

[Auron3991]

Kobolds already have Pun-Pun the mighty, master of cheese, may all fall before his munchkinry. It's not really a fair fight:smallbiggrin:


Seriously though, if the metallic and chromatic dragons were to join forces, the other races would be in serious trouble.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Pretty definitely the Tanar'ri, yeah. Ethergaunts are a good contender, too, by sheer magical power.

This. Remember the gods were evenly matched with the obyriths. The tanar'ri may not be quite as nasty, but are still monstrously powerful and quite infinite. Ethergaunts are just absolutely terrifying. The weakest of them are mid level wizards.

[Rubik]

The Shadow. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjhtQiUzRY)

A single shadow can kill a creature every other round or so, if it focuses on the weak, sickly, young, and low-Str animals, which creates another shadow within 1d4 rounds. It doesn't have daylight powerlessness like the wraith does, and it's incorporeal, unlike the wight, so it is immune to anything nonmagical and can ignore 50% of non-abjurations and non-force effects. Furthermore, it can hide within walls and take out chickens and dogs and rats and suchlike until there's a huge army of shadows. It has no Con score and has the undead type, so it doesn't need to rest or eat, and so it can continually consume living things without having to stop. And with an Int of 6, it would be smart enough to plan with its spawn and avoid spellcasters long enough to gain an overwhelming foothold.

Starting with one shadow, it can start at sunset and can destroy an entire city by the time the dawn comes, after which all the resulting shadows can spread around the countryside, spawning from more and more living things until the entire planet is consumed, only slowing down a little whenever they encounter something living. Cities would be a speedbump. Low level non-spellcasters would be more fodder for the shadowpocalypse, with no hope of survival, and any spellcaster under level 15 would also most likely be destroyed unless they can immediately flee via teleportation or are immune to negative energy or Str damage.

So, yeah, the existence of a single shadow with enough sense to build a power base before coming to the attention of a mid-level character with a magic weapon or a spellcaster could destroy 99% of all living things on its plane within a few weeks, and could even render large portions of infinite planes utterly uninhabitable, consuming all living things at an exponential rate.

IE, everything else is screwed.

[kaffalidjmah]

The Shadow. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjhtQiUzRY)

A single shadow can kill a creature every other round or so, if it focuses on the weak, sickly, young, and low-Str animals, which creates another shadow within 1d4 rounds. It doesn't have daylight powerlessness like the wraith does, and it's incorporeal, unlike the wight, so it is immune to anything nonmagical and can ignore 50% of non-abjurations and non-force effects. Furthermore, it can hide within walls and take out chickens and dogs and rats and suchlike until there's a huge army of shadows. It has no Con score and has the undead type, so it doesn't need to rest or eat, and so it can continually consume living things without having to stop. And with an Int of 6, it would be smart enough to plan with its spawn and avoid spellcasters long enough to gain an overwhelming foothold.

Starting with one shadow, it can start at sunset and can destroy an entire city by the time the dawn comes, after which all the resulting shadows can spread around the countryside, spawning from more and more living things until the entire planet is consumed, only slowing down a little whenever they encounter something living. Cities would be a speedbump. Low level non-spellcasters would be more fodder for the shadowpocalypse, with no hope of survival, and any spellcaster under level 15 would also most likely be destroyed unless they can immediately flee via teleportation or are immune to negative energy or Str damage.

So, yeah, the existence of a single shadow with enough sense to build a power base before coming to the attention of a mid-level character with a magic weapon or a spellcaster could destroy 99% of all living things on its plane within a few weeks, and could even render large portions of infinite planes utterly uninhabitable, consuming all living things at an exponential rate.

IE, everything else is screwed.

and a single chaotic evil soulborn will jump to level X in a few days. But, nice idea :)

[Eldan]

The Shadow. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjhtQiUzRY)

A single shadow can kill a creature every other round or so, if it focuses on the weak, sickly, young, and low-Str animals, which creates another shadow within 1d4 rounds. It doesn't have daylight powerlessness like the wraith does, and it's incorporeal, unlike the wight, so it is immune to anything nonmagical and can ignore 50% of non-abjurations and non-force effects. Furthermore, it can hide within walls and take out chickens and dogs and rats and suchlike until there's a huge army of shadows. It has no Con score and has the undead type, so it doesn't need to rest or eat, and so it can continually consume living things without having to stop. And with an Int of 6, it would be smart enough to plan with its spawn and avoid spellcasters long enough to gain an overwhelming foothold.

Starting with one shadow, it can start at sunset and can destroy an entire city by the time the dawn comes, after which all the resulting shadows can spread around the countryside, spawning from more and more living things until the entire planet is consumed, only slowing down a little whenever they encounter something living. Cities would be a speedbump. Low level non-spellcasters would be more fodder for the shadowpocalypse, with no hope of survival, and any spellcaster under level 15 would also most likely be destroyed unless they can immediately flee via teleportation or are immune to negative energy or Str damage.

So, yeah, the existence of a single shadow with enough sense to build a power base before coming to the attention of a mid-level character with a magic weapon or a spellcaster could destroy 99% of all living things on its plane within a few weeks, and could even render large portions of infinite planes utterly uninhabitable, consuming all living things at an exponential rate.

IE, everything else is screwed.


Except for, you know, the many many things who are immune to shadows. Like all the other, stronger undead. Or things who can make themselves immune or have a fighting chance otherwise, like the stronger demons or the ethergaunts.

[Honest Tiefling]

So...How many powerful demons can control undead? I mean with all of their clerics and freaking Orcus, I would assume that the demons would just march right in after the shadow-apocalypse and rule everything. Heck, they can fight the Ethergaunts for them.

[Marlowe]

Honestly, I can't even see Githyanki surviving as a race on the material plane, they're weak for their LA, few in number, make enemies with everybody and have precisely one individual higher than level 16. If they didn't live in a place where they don't age or need to eat they'd probably be dust by now.

Ethergaunts are scary individually and as a culture. The thing against them is numbers. Looking at their book description the total number of Ethergaunts in the universe is only about 10,000*. 10,000 people with nasty monster abilities and the spells of 9th level wizards (at least) is still scary; but not against everybody else.

Of course, the OP said "world domination". There are many worlds on the prime material. If somebody wants to posit a universe where the Drow, Gith, Ethergaunts, Kender, Mongrelfolk or whatever have entirely taken over at least one world completely there's nothing wrong with that.

*in case you're wondering, that's just extrapolating the estimated number of Black Ethergaunts (who are supposed to be the community leaders) by the average size of Ethergaunt settlements.

[Rubik]

Except for, you know, the many many things who are immune to shadows. Like all the other, stronger undead. Or things who can make themselves immune or have a fighting chance otherwise, like the stronger demons or the ethergaunts.Again, 99% of the living creatures they encounter. High level spellcasters and Sp/Su users with abilities useful against them are fairly rare. Everything else can either be taken down easily by one or two shadows (initially) or overwhelmed with dozens or hundreds who swarm them (the next day).

And most undead most likely won't do much about them. By the time they even notice, there'll be far, FAR too many to deal with short of epic magic.

[Marlowe]

Ooo. Ooo. Semi-serious nomination.

The Fey.

Seriously, they're already everywhere. Their numbers are unknown. They seem to come into existence just as a side-effect of there being a "here" to exist in, and nobody knows what they're up to.

[Rubik]

Seriously, they're already everywhere. Their numbers are unknown. They seem to come into existence just as a side-effect of there being a "here" to exist in, and nobody knows what they're up to.Sounds like Twilight fangirls.

Or celebrities.

[ben-zayb]

Again, 99% of the living creatures they encounter. High level spellcasters and Sp/Su users with abilities useful against them are fairly rare. Everything else can either be taken down easily by one or two shadows (initially) or overwhelmed with dozens or hundreds who swarm them (the next day).

And most undead most likely won't do much about them. By the time they even notice, there'll be far, FAR too many to deal with short of epic magic.

Dunno. Infinite demons sounds infinitely larger in scale compared to a finite number of shadows.

EDIT: Also, goodluck on making Create Spawn work on Animals and any other non-Humanoid types.

[Seclora]

Ooo. Ooo. Semi-serious nomination.

The Fey.

Seriously, they're already everywhere. Their numbers are unknown. They seem to come into existence just as a side-effect of there being a "here" to exist in, and nobody knows what they're up to.

Do -they- know what they're up to? I don't have an answer or anything, it's just that they've got all the same problems the Tana'ri have, but with better food and fanboys/girls who don't have to run from paladins...usually.

That said, they also have the theoretical(or at least unstated) numbers of the Tana'ri so either one, if racially unified, could be a viable contender for chaotic overlord of the planes.

[Telonius]

Doppelgangers. By some accounts, they've already achieved world domination. :smallbiggrin:

[AlanBruce]

EDIT: Also, good luck on making Create Spawn work on Animals and any other non-Humanoid types.

They got to them as well... (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/umbralcreature.shtml)

Of course, if the above information is dated, outsiders should be fine from these creatures, but many other types in the Material (where most stuff happens, anyway), would be effectively infected.

Drop a lone shadow in a forest and let it go crazy as it turns all manner oif critters and by sundown, the nearby village will be overwhelmed by swarms of umbral squirrels.

[ben-zayb]

They got to them as well... (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/umbralcreature.shtml)

Of course, if the above information is dated, outsiders should be fine from these creatures, but many other types in the Material (where most stuff happens, anyway), would be effectively infected.

Drop a lone shadow in a forest and let it go crazy as it turns all manner oif critters and by sundown, the nearby village will be overwhelmed by swarms of umbral squirrels.Funny you mention that since Animals can't be Umbral creatures. Their create Create Spawn ability is exactly the same as a shadow's (affects Humanoids only and only creates other shadows, not bestow umbral templates).