Is my necromancer build okay?

[djwood]

Hey dice rollers! My friend is starting a DM and I decided to be a wizard (spell focus necromancer!)

So this is me!

Race : fire genasi
Alignment: chaotic evil
Sex: please! (Male)
Age : 25

Stats
Str: 13(+1)
Dex:16(+3)
Con:16
Int:20(+5)
Wis:15(+2)
Cha:11(0)

Ref:5
Fort:5
Will:7

HP: 55

Feats
Iron skeleton
Steel skeleton
Mithral skeleton
Adamantine skeleton
Corpscrafter

Skill checks
Knowledge (anatomy,religion,mystery,arcane)
Listen
Art of magic

My familiar is a skeleton warrior

And I have 9000 gp (house rules) and I don't know what to buy. I was thinking oil and matches so I can set my tools on fire to do fire damage cause there so buffer defence wise. But to be honest Im a necromancer noob can I take some spells from the libris book? How can I create a undead from the libris book? Like I want to make a goul or a brain in a jar how could I possibl do it? If I wanted a shadow as a creature do I capture of or do I make one? And how many can I control at a time ? And what are HD or DR ! Basically I'm lost xD

Step by step help would be really appreciated and if you suggest me to change something, I can because we haven't started yet.

[Solaris]

Wizard is better for the damage/debuff side of necromancy, while cleric is better for the undead minionmancy. You're not really going to want a lot of undead minions, but rather one or two big tough undead monsters.

What are Iron Skeleton and the other [Metal] Skeleton feats?

This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584.0) is a pretty good necromancer handbook. I used it to help my brother make a necromancer character.

[Demidos]

Couple questions--

First, please post what level you are, it'll be helpful.

Second, how powerful is the rest of the group going to be? Are they all experienced players likely to bring powerful builds to the table, or relative newcomers like yourself? Necromancers can be very powerful, and although it sounds fun having a super powerful awesome character, it generally ends up with the rest of the group not having very much fun. If you can get a hold of some of the builds other people are playing, that'd be helpful.

Things you should check:
The special metal feats I've never heard of. A quick google implies that they're from d&d wiki/ aka not official feats. If you DO want to go for boosting their HP like that, using the "desecrate" spell with an alter to an evil god will help in that regard. I've also never heard of the art of magic skill.

Suggestions for items:
Buy a +2 to your primary stat item. Its basic and useful. Other than that, more AC (armor class) is always good.

HD and DR:
HD refers to hit dice. For players, hit dice = levels (put simply). For monsters, if they have, say 3d10 hit points, that means they have 3 HD, but that's less important if you aren't DMing. DR refers to damage reduction. If you attack an enemy for 5 damage and they have DR 3/--, they take 2 damage. The "/--" refers to what can pierce it. If a, say, Golem has damage reduction 10/adamentine, he will take 10 less damage from attacks that do not come from an adamentine weapon.

[OldTrees1]

For 9K gp, I would buy a +1 Weapon[2K], a +1 Cloak of Resistance[1K], and Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm)[3K] for low level defensive buffs like Mage Armor. That leaves 3K gp for undead and traveling expenses.

As a Wizard, you can learn Wizard spells from any book. The Spell Compendium and Libris Mortis will have some nice ones for you.

As a Wizard, you will find it almost impossible to control any undead beyond Zombies and Skeletons. The means for creating such undead (usually the mid level Create Undead spell) will not give you control of the creature. The class feature needed to control such undead is called Rebuke Undead (the negative energy version of Turn Undead). Clerics and Dread Necromancers(from the "Heroes of Horror" book) are the best sources of Rebuke Undead.

Are the Iron skeleton thru Adamantine skeleton feats from Dandwiki? If they are the same as the ones on Dandwiki then I would strongly urge you to avoid them.

Ask more questions and receive more answers. Also what books are permitted? For instance, can you use the Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror. It seems more up your alley.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

My main objection is to the tired gender pun. :smalltongue:

My second objection is to the CE necromancer potentially not playing nice with the rest of the party; I'd talk to them about your concept to see if it fits.

What's the rest of the party playing? Necromantic wizards can do some crazy stuff like Animate Dread Warrior (Unapproachable East) or general fear-stacking shenanigans but you don't necessarily want to do that sort of thing if it would outshine your group.

[Sception]

Not a fan of those feats.

There are several key first party products for enhancing a necromantic character. Important ones include the following (in no particular order):

Spell Compendium - a number of useful spells, including the most up to date versions of revive undead, awaken undead, summon undead chain, and, iirc, plague of undead.

Heroes of Horror - mostly DM campaign stuff, much of it bad (your DM should avoid the corruption rules in particular, they're messy and super exploitable). Notable primarily for the Dread Necromancer class, one of the themed spontaneous casters (similar to Warmage in complete arcane or Beguiler in PHBII), this one focused on necromancy. Probably the best class for creating & controlling undead, also has a number of other useful or thematic features. If you're the party's only arcane caster, however, you should consider cross class skill investment (or even a level dip, though that's not strictly necessary since you're cha based) in use magic device, plus some monetary investment in key utility scrolls & wands.

Libris Mortis - the 3.5 monsternomicon for undead, lots of great fluff, and a bunch of good crunch, from the corpsecrafter line of feats (generally superior to the metal skeleton stuff you've already taken), to prestige classes like Pale Master and Master of Shrouds (True Necromancer, while cool, is generally considered a trap choice). Some good spells, but most of them were later updated in the spell compendium, so use that for the most current versions. Libris Mortis also has the necropolitan template - generally the best way for a necromancer to become undead, as it doesn't come with level adjustment (you lose a level when you have it applied, and it costs a lot of money, and your have to find a Necropolitan enclave in your DM's campaign to agree to take you on and perform the ritual, though).

Draconomicon - the 3.5 monsternomicon for dragons. Lots of great fluff and monsters, mostly DM material. For a necromancer, it is notable for the 'Skeleton Dragon' and 'Zombie Dragon' templates, which explicitly replace the usual skeleton and zombie templates when animate dead is cast on a dragon corpse. They are significantly superior to regular skeletons and zombies, and have no hit dice cap. If you have access to these templates, then the corpses of dragons become an extremely valuable resource for you.

Dragon Compendium - This is a 2nd party rather than a 1st party product, collecting a bunch of content from Dragon Magazine. For you it's relevant for the... What was it called? Death Master class? something like that. Anyway, it's a necromancy themed class aligned with the archdemon Orcus. All relevant cleric & wizard core necromancy spells, most key arcane utility spells (so you don't need UMD), a skeletal companion, rebuking, some other interesting or thematic features. If your game includes access to non-core spells, however, then this class is only worthwhile if your DM will let you use the spell research rules to add in-theme spells from non-core sources to your spell list (revive undead, awaken undead, summon undead chain, plague of undead, etc).


Wizard, Cleric, Death Master, and Dread Necro are the main classes to consider. That list pretty much puts them in arguably descending order of general power and utility but ascending order of talent when it comes to creating and controlling undead, assuming your campaign will continue past 8th level - the Dread Necro's ability to create permanent undead servants doesn't turn on until then. If you aren't going to reach 8th level or spend much campaign time above it, then the Death Master shoots way ahead on the undead control front, between its class feature undead servant at first level and its access to Animate Dead as a second level spell.

Other classes can have necromantic themes. Incarnate from Magic of Incarnum with the Necrocarnate PrC is a favorite of mine. Binder from Tome of Magic has some neat stuff. The Eberron campaign setting's Artificer can be insanely powerful and makes a really interesting 'arcane craftsman' sort of necromancer, supplementing undead servants with powerful constructs. Warlock from Complete Arcane isn't a powerful class, but it's a lot of fun, very straight forward to play, and has one of the most user friendly versions of the Animate Dead spell - did you find a good corpse for a permanent minion? Pay the material cost as usual. Just want to animate the goblins you just killed in this room temporarily for some extra help in the next room? sure, you can do that for free. Fallen paladins and Cleric/Fighter multiclasses can get a tone of Necromantic mileage out of the Bone Knight PrC in Eberron's Five Nations book (probably the best version of the necromantic Gish in the game, and way better & cooler than blackguard). Clerics that Multiclass with Martial Adept classes from the Tome of Battle have the Ruby Knight Vindicator, which while not explicitly necromantic in its abilities is themed towards a necromantic deity, and between the clerics native necromantic abilities and access to animate dead, and the Crusader's awesome stances and maneuvers can be a strong contender with Bone Knight for awesome necromantic Gish.

None of those options will be quite as adept at creating or controlling the undead, however.


If going cleric, consider a level dip into a strong will save class and early entry (level 4, iirc) into Master of Shrouds from Libris Mortis. The class grants all sorts of summoned incorporeal undead abilities (which you can make permanent by having them create the spawn and then rebuking the spawn, a trick that dread necromancers can imitate via summon undead... IV? V? I forget, the one that gets shadows). If you spend much time at high/epic levels, then the Master of Shrouds summons do peter out in power, but for most of the level progression they're amazing if not outright game breaking. Even at high level, there are a lot of monsters that just cannot handle incorporeal adversaries.

Otherwise, if you plan on animating a lot of skeletons or zombies (skeletal or zombie monsters and especially dragons are almost always stronger and more controllable than anything you can make with the create undead spells), and you are leveling up from low levels, consider a two level dip in the Pale Master PrC from Libris Mortis for free animate dead 1/day. That way you don't have to spend money or spell slots on it. Costs a caster level, but for a focused necromancy character it can be very much worth it. Honestly, if you do dip into Pale Master, it may be worth taking all the way, especially if you can't access a cohort via the leadership feat otherwise.

Apart from those, any relevant or powerful caster PrCs are fine for a necromantic character.


If you're going to be spending most of your time at high and epic levels, then cheap access to animate dead doesn't matter anymore, because Plague of Undead is better, and by the time you can cast it it's essentially free anyway.

Corpsecrafter and Destruction retribution are good feats (though the latter can be unfriendly for the party). Tomb Tainted Soul is all but obligatory for Dread Necromancers, unless you can start as undead or become undead early in your game (See the necropolitan template in Libris Mortis). All of those are from Libris Mortis.


Regardless of what brand of necromancer you play, you can easily create utterly unmanageable armies of the undead in 3.5. Unless you're explicitly playing in a mass battles game, do not do this, it will bog down the game and make it awkward for everyone.

Instead animate or control a handful of useful skeletons or zombies, about one per party member, and order each one to follow the instructions of one of your fellow party members. A flying skeletal nightmare mount for your archer ranger or lance using charger. A beefy bodyguard zombie fire giant for your wizard. A rebuke-commanded shadow flanking buddy for your rogue. Keep something simple, but useful for yourself. Maybe an ostentatious animate floating throne crafted from the skull of a beholder then animated to carry you about / bite any flying enemies that get too close. At later levels, maybe a gargantuan old blue dragon zombie as an airship for the party. Rely on summoned undead for cheap utility like scouting or checking for traps.

Keep the 'party undead' under active control, and let other undead, particularly the largest brutes you can animate that eat up the most hit dice, go uncontrolled, then regain control of them via castings of the 'command undead' spell every few days. Party undead should be made intelligent with 'awaken undead', so that they can follow more complicated instructions.

I mean, sure, create an undead army at high levels (or, better, let your cohorts and followers do that, if you have the leadership feat), but leave it at home with your cohort/s (from leadership, undead leadership, or Pale Master PrC) defending the party's remote fortress base. Don't clog up adventures with them. Let them be an available party resource if the DM ever wants to do a mass battle adventure. Don't try to take them dungeon delving.

[djwood]

sooo sorry friends I'm lvl 7 and yes those feats are from the d&d wiki if they aren't good which feat should i replace them with? and thank you for explaining the HD thing but i think necro needs to know how many HD a monster has right? i think i have a limit of HD monster that I can control and the adamantium skeleton feat does this

Adamantine Skeleton (3.5e Feat)








Adamantine Skeleton [Necromantic][edit]

Undead you create have their skeleton structure reinforced by adamantine

Prerequisite: Able to create undead, Iron Skeleton, Steel Skeleton, Mithral Skeleton

Benefit: When you create an undead creature you may choose to add 200 gp worth of Adamantine and an emerald worth at least 100 gp to the material components of the spell. If you do, the undead creature gains 8 hitpoints per Hit Die. A skeleton created with this feat also gains +8 natural armor, DR 8/-, and gains +3 to hit, and deals +3 damage with its claw attacks which bypass hardness less than 20. An undead created in this way counts as four Hit Die higher for the purposes of creating it and controlling it.

Special: This feat may only be applied to undead that have an intact skeleton (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, but not ghosts, for example). You may not apply this feat to an undead in conjunction with any other feat that reinforces its skeleton.

[OldTrees1]

Ok. Suspicious confirmed.

Here is a summary of undead control(the various control pools and their traits):

Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm)
This allows you to control 4x your caster level in HD. However you can only control Skeletons and Zombies. So at 7th level you usually have a 7 caster level. So you would be able to control 28HD of skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. This is a weak control pool but it is a way to create new skeletons and zombies from corpses so it is still relevant.

Command Undead(spell) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm)
This allows you to control 1 mindless undead(skeleton or zombie) for 1 day per caster level and that is per casting. At 7th caster level, you could control 7 20HD skeletons for 1 2nd level spell slot per day.

Rebuke Undead(Cleric or Dread Necromancer class feature) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead)
This allows you to control your Effective Cleric Level of HD of any undead. If you were a 7th level Cleric or a 7th level Dread Necromancer your Effective Cleric Level would be 7. So you could control 7HD of undead. Unlike Animate Dead and Command Undead, you could use this to command 2 3HD Shadows (6HD out of your 7HD pool).


So what sources are you allowed to use? Obviously your DM is allowing you to use Libris Mortis and the Player's Handbook, but what other books/sources do you have access to? (This is relevant to the replacement feats and other info)

Another question: How do you have 55hp at 7th level with 16 Con?

[djwood]

Im allowed to use all the books ! And is my HP to high?


Ok. Suspicious confirmed.

Here is a summary of undead control(the various control pools and their traits):

Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm)
This allows you to control 4x your caster level in HD. However you can only control Skeletons and Zombies. So at 7th level you usually have a 7 caster level. So you would be able to control 28HD of skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. This is a weak control pool but it is a way to create new skeletons and zombies from corpses so it is still relevant.

Command Undead(spell) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm)
This allows you to control 1 mindless undead(skeleton or zombie) for 1 day per caster level and that is per casting. At 7th caster level, you could control 7 20HD skeletons for 1 2nd level spell slot per day.

Rebuke Undead(Cleric or Dread Necromancer class feature) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead)
This allows you to control your Effective Cleric Level of HD of any undead. If you were a 7th level Cleric or a 7th level Dread Necromancer your Effective Cleric Level would be 7. So you could control 7HD of undead. Unlike Animate Dead and Command Undead, you could use this to command 2 3HD Shadows (6HD out of your 7HD pool).


So what sources are you allowed to use? Obviously your DM is allowing you to use Libris Mortis and the Player's Handbook, but what other books/sources do you have access to? (This is relevant to the replacement feats and other info)

Another question: How do you have 55hp at 7th level with 16 Con?

[djwood]

And what feats do you recommend me then? And what should be the spells I should take to command an army?


Ok. Suspicious confirmed.

Here is a summary of undead control(the various control pools and their traits):

Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm)
This allows you to control 4x your caster level in HD. However you can only control Skeletons and Zombies. So at 7th level you usually have a 7 caster level. So you would be able to control 28HD of skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. This is a weak control pool but it is a way to create new skeletons and zombies from corpses so it is still relevant.

Command Undead(spell) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm)
This allows you to control 1 mindless undead(skeleton or zombie) for 1 day per caster level and that is per casting. At 7th caster level, you could control 7 20HD skeletons for 1 2nd level spell slot per day.

Rebuke Undead(Cleric or Dread Necromancer class feature) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead)
This allows you to control your Effective Cleric Level of HD of any undead. If you were a 7th level Cleric or a 7th level Dread Necromancer your Effective Cleric Level would be 7. So you could control 7HD of undead. Unlike Animate Dead and Command Undead, you could use this to command 2 3HD Shadows (6HD out of your 7HD pool).


So what sources are you allowed to use? Obviously your DM is allowing you to use Libris Mortis and the Player's Handbook, but what other books/sources do you have access to? (This is relevant to the replacement feats and other info)

Another question: How do you have 55hp at 7th level with 16 Con?

[djwood]

And what feats do you recommend me then? And what should be the spells I should take to command an army?



And what's wrong with adamantine skeleton feat isn't it balanced?

[j_spencer93]

Um i would just drop those skeleton feats and go with corpsecrafter and those feats. and your hp seems to high...7 x 4 = 28 (1d4 per level, maxed even) with +3 per HD = 21....you should only have 49 hp max.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Its kind of bad actually. It has feat taxes and doesn't give you more than what you can get from other feats. If your DM is ok with homebrew and you like the feat then by all means take it.

I'm going to suggest that you take the Dread Necromancer class instead of Wizard. That way you can rebuke undead as an arcane caster without needing to multiclass.

[Sception]

Short list feats to consider:

Corpsecrafter, Destructive Retribution (Libris Mortis). The first grants undead you create improved stats and HP, and is a prerequisite for the latter which causes your undead to explode for negative energy damage when destroyed, harming nearby living creatures and healing undead. While the latter feat can be quite powerful, it also can be party unfriendly, so take that into consideration. If you play the dread necromancer class, Corspecrafter loses some of its luster, as some of its benefits don't stack with your level 8 class feature.

Tomb Tainted Soul (Libris Mortis). You are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy as though you were undead. Obvious synergy with Destructive Retribution, particularly if you can convince your party members to take the feat as well. Practically required for Dread Necromancers (a class from Libris Mortis), who have unlimited out of combat negative energy healing. If not a dread necro, or if you can become actually undead, this becomes less good or redundant.

Necromantic Presence / Necromantic Might (Libris Mortis). Passive buff & turn resistance auras for your undead.

Spell Focus / Greater Spell Focus [necromancy]. If you use a lot of offensive necromancy spells, you'll find they often allow saving throws. Making those saves harder to pass can be a significant benefit.

Spell Penetration / Greater Spell Penetration. If you use offensive necromancy spells, you'll find that many allow spell resistance. Bonuses to overcoming that resistance can be a significant benefit. In the long run, these are probably a better investment than Spell Focus, but both can be worthwhile.

Arcane Disciple: for dread necromancers, to pick up some utility spells not otherwise on their spell list, though it does require investment in wis, which is otherwise a dump stat, and the spells can only be used 1/day.

Leadership/Undead Leadership. Background fluff & utility feats. You don't want to take your cohorts / followers on adventures, they'll get in the way and make things awkward. But good to leave at home managing the base, or help out if mass battles become a thing. Your cohort can help you access key necromancy spells and effects that you might lack - desecration and rebuke undead for most arcane casters; command undead (the spell) for divine casters; magic circle and dimensional anchor and basic utility like teleoportation circle for Dread Necromancers - along with any necro utility spells not on your spell list that you might not want to burn advanced learning slots on - awaken undead comes to mind.

Empower/Mazimize/Twin spell, etc. Metamagic feats can be quite useful for any caster. Necromancers in particular like those that enhance ray of enfeeblement early on or enervation later on. These three are the most notable. Any feat or ability that reduces the cost of metamagic is also good, just google search 'optimizing metamagic in 3.5' or something to find guides, it's a big topic to cover.

Craft Wand, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Scroll - all useful feats for castery types.

[OldTrees1]

Im allowed to use all the books ! And is my HP to high?


And what feats do you recommend me then? And what should be the spells I should take to command an army?


And what's wrong with adamantine skeleton feat isn't it balanced?

Ok. So since you want a Necromancer, I would suggest jumping over to the Dread Necromancer class (found in the Heroes of Horror book). It has a limited spell list but it is versatile enough, and is spontaneous so you don't need to "take" spell it also has all the control pools you would be interested in (Animate Dead, Command Undead and Rebuke Undead).

For feats I would suggest:
Corpse Crafter(LM), Destructive Retribution(LM), Extend Spell(PHB), Chain Spell(Complete Arcane), Tomb-tainted Soul(LM for self healing)

The [Metal] Skeleton feats are not balanced because:
The cost more gold for a relatively weak bonus and hard harder to animate/control with animate dead.

DreadNecromancer Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096381)

[djwood]

Friend it's kinda to late to change classes I've gone so far to make him xD but can I just take one cleric lvl to get rebuke? And is rebuke really that better than animate or summonm/command?


Its kind of bad actually. It has feat taxes and doesn't give you more than what you can get from other feats. If your DM is ok with homebrew and you like the feat then by all means take it.

I'm going to suggest that you take the Dread Necromancer class instead of Wizard. That way you can rebuke undead as an arcane caster without needing to multiclass.

[OldTrees1]

Friend it's kinda to late to change classes I've gone so far to make him xD but can I just take one cleric lvl to get rebuke? And is rebuke really that better than animate or summonm/command?

Rebuke is powered by your levels in classes that get Rebuke. There are other ways to boost it but those cost thousands of gp per +1HD of intelligent undead.
Phylactery of Undead Turning(DMG): +4 to turn/rebuke level. [11K gp]
Scepter of the Netherworld(LM): +3 to turn/rebuke level. [9K gp]

So for 20K gp and 1 level of Cleric you would have 8th level Rebuking


Rebuke is the only way to get persistent intelligent undead. (Animate and Command can't and Summon is only temporary). Command can compete with Rebuke by sheer numbers of mindless undead(it is the undead army option) but it will never get you ghouls or shadows(and it sounded like you were more interested in a variety of undead).

Since it is too late to change classes, I would suggest taking Summon Undead III thru V as a replacement for Rebuke Undead. I would still drop those [Metal] Skeleton feats for Extend Spell, Chain Spell, Undead Leadership and Destructive Retribution.

Edit: Added the turning boosting items.

[djwood]

but isnt leadership for people with high CHA ? which isn'T me 11



Rebuke is powered by your levels in classes that get Rebuke. There are other ways to boost it but those cost thousands of gp per +1HD of intelligent undead.
Phylactery of Undead Turning(DMG): +4 to turn/rebuke level. [11K gp]
Scepter of the Netherworld(LM): +3 to turn/rebuke level. [9K gp]

So for 20K gp and 1 level of Cleric you would have 8th level Rebuking


Rebuke is the only way to get persistent intelligent undead. (Animate and Command can't and Summon is only temporary). Command can compete with Rebuke by sheer numbers of mindless undead(it is the undead army option) but it will never get you ghouls or shadows(and it sounded like you were more interested in a variety of undead).

Since it is too late to change classes, I would suggest taking Summon Undead III thru V as a replacement for Rebuke Undead. I would still drop those [Metal] Skeleton feats for Extend Spell, Chain Spell, Undead Leadership and Destructive Retribution.

Edit: Added the turning boosting items.

[OldTrees1]

but isnt leadership for people with high CHA ? which isn'T me 11

Leadership is better for more Charismatic individuals, but it is still good for average Cha individuals. Also I suggested it more as a flavor feat to fit with your undead army idea.

[djwood]

ahhh ! I like how you think! But now i'm requestioning myself about changing classes if I do rechange classes could you please help me? like a guide? :o



Leadership is better for more Charismatic individuals, but it is still good for average Cha individuals. Also I suggested it more as a flavor feat to fit with your undead army idea.

[OldTrees1]

ahhh ! I like how you think! But now i'm requestioning myself about changing classes if I do rechange classes could you please help me? like a guide? :o

I will help as much as you wish.

The Fire Genesai has +2 Int and -2 Cha as racial modifiers.
You are past 4th HD but not at your 8th HD so you have had a +1 to an ability(I assume Int)
This means you rolled 13/16/16/17/15/13 before modifiers.
If we switch the 17, 15 and 13 around and apply the +1 to Cha instead this time we get
Str 13(+1), Dex 16(+3), Con 16(+3), Int 17(+3), Wis 13(+1), Cha 16(+3)
Those are easily good enough stats for a Dread Necromancer and you are still very intelligent(just in case that was important to your character's personality).

Since your Int modifier is +3, you would get 5 skill points per level (20 at 1st level) for a total of 50 skill points. Your new class skills are: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge(arcana), Knowledge (religion), Profession, and Spellcraft. You can spend a maximum of 10 skill points per skill. I would recommend spend some points on cross class skills like Listen or Spot despite getting only 1 rank per 2 points.

Your HP is 7d6(Dread Necromancers get more hp) +21hp. Ask your DM how he does hp(since I don't know how he reached 55 for a 7th level wizard with 16 Con). However average hp would be 48hp (since the 1st HD is maximized for PCs).

[djwood]

you truly are a undead saint! thank you ! I will kick ass in your honour! my new catch phrase will be '' by the power of oldtree, die and serve me!

so what would I need to take for feats since my metal feats weren't that great!

and 9000 gp what would I need ?

thank you so much you have no idea how much I appreciate it!



I will help as much as you wish.

The Fire Genesai has +2 Int and -2 Cha as racial modifiers.
You are past 4th HD but not at your 8th HD so you have had a +1 to an ability(I assume Int)
This means you rolled 13/16/16/17/15/13 before modifiers.
If we switch the 17, 15 and 13 around and apply the +1 to Cha instead this time we get
Str 13(+1), Dex 16(+3), Con 16(+3), Int 17(+3), Wis 13(+1), Cha 16(+3)
Those are easily good enough stats for a Dread Necromancer and you are still very intelligent(just in case that was important to your character's personality).

Since your Int modifier is +3, you would get 5 skill points per level (20 at 1st level) for a total of 50 skill points. Your new class skills are: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge(arcana), Knowledge (religion), Profession, and Spellcraft. You can spend a maximum of 10 skill points per skill.

Your HP is 7d6(Dread Necromancers get more hp) +21hp. Ask your DM how he does hp(since I don't know how he reached 55 for a 7th level wizard with 16 Con).

[OldTrees1]

you truly are a undead saint! thank you ! I will kick ass in your honour! my new catch phrase will be '' by the power of oldtree, die and serve me!

so what would I need to take for feats since my metal feats weren't that great!

and 9000 gp what would I need ?

thank you so much you have no idea how much I appreciate it!

Your welcome and thanks for the battlecry.

For your feats, you get 1 at 1st, 3rd and 6th. You will get another at 9th, 15th and 18th levels.
Tome Tainted Soul would allow you to heal yourself outside of combat. (cost 1 feat)
Extend Spell + Chain Spell would multiply the size of your skeletal army. (cost 2 feats)
Undead Leadership will give you a 2nd in command for your army. (cost 1 feat)
Corpsecrafter is very similar to your 8th level class feature that you get next level. (cost 1 feat)

I can't read you mind to know which you would prefer most. These are all good options(as well as some others listed above by other posters). Personally I would take Extend Spell, Chain Spell and Undead Leadership but your preferences might differ.

9000gp at 7th level as a Dread Necromancer. That is harder. Normally it is 19000 by then. Your priorities are getting your defenses up since you are a caster. As a Dread Necromancer you can wear any light armor for no penalty. So we will start with a +1 Chain Shirt[1250gp]. You also need to be boosting your saves. So a +1 Vest of Resistance[1000gp]. A Bag of Holding I[2500gp] is important. You will eventually get a +2 Cloak of Charisma[4000gp] so why not now.That leaves you 250gp for mundane equipment, travel expenses, and reserve funds. I would include a Longbow in your mundane equipment(and choose longbow as your 1 martial weapon proficiency).

Oh, 1 thing to note. Unfortunately, the Dread Necromancer only gets Animate Dead at 8th level. Until then you would only have undead you have captured via Rebuke Undead and Command Undead alongside your followers/cohort.

[atemu1234]

I'd rebuild into a Necromancer / Ur-Priest / Mystic Theurge. Probably with academic priest. Human race.

[OldTrees1]

I'd rebuild into a Necromancer / Ur-Priest / Mystic Theurge. Probably with academic priest. Human race.

Why?
If the OP were asking about a metamagic focused necromancer then this would make more sense (more slots and access to Divine Metamagic). But the OP's original design(with all the [Metal] Skeleton feats and questions about Ghouls, brain in a jars, and Shadows) looks like it goes in the opposite direction(towards the minionmancer necromancer).

[Bonzai]

There are two obscure ways that I have found to get turn/rebuke as a Wizard without multi classing.

First, is a helmet in either the players guide to Faerun or Magic of faerun, I can't remember which. It's called the Shadow Crown, or something very similar. It's expensive, but let's you turn and rebuke as a 10th Lvl cleric. With all the +cleric lvl to turn/rebuke items I think you can get up to the equivalent of a lvl 22 cleric.

The second is by 2 Dragon Magazine feats. The pre-req feat is called God Touched. It gives you a once per day +1 luck bonus related to your patron dieties portfolio... Like turn/rebuke checks. The 2nd feat is called Divine Channeler. Once per day you can turn/ rebuke as a cleric half your level. Both feats are in Dragon #305.

That's about it, and I've looked about every where.

[atemu1234]

There are two obscure ways that I have found to get turn/rebuke as a Wizard without multi classing.

First, is a helmet in either the players guide to Faerun or Magic of faerun, I can't remember which. It's called the Shadow Crown, or something very similar. It's expensive, but let's you turn and rebuke as a 10th Lvl cleric. With all the +cleric lvl to turn/rebuke items I think you can get up to the equivalent of a lvl 22 cleric.

The second is by 2 Dragon Magazine feats. The pre-req feat is called God Touched. It gives you a once per day +1 luck bonus related to your patron dieties portfolio... Like turn/rebuke checks. The 2nd feat is called Divine Channeler. Once per day you can turn/ rebuke as a cleric half your level. Both feats are in Dragon #305.

That's about it, and I've looked about every where.

Divine Channeler seems OP.

[OldTrees1]

There are two obscure ways that I have found to get turn/rebuke as a Wizard without multi classing.

First, is a helmet in either the players guide to Faerun or Magic of faerun, I can't remember which. It's called the Shadow Crown, or something very similar. It's expensive, but let's you turn and rebuke as a 10th Lvl cleric. With all the +cleric lvl to turn/rebuke items I think you can get up to the equivalent of a lvl 22 cleric.

The second is by 2 Dragon Magazine feats. The pre-req feat is called God Touched. It gives you a once per day +1 luck bonus related to your patron dieties portfolio... Like turn/rebuke checks. The 2nd feat is called Divine Channeler. Once per day you can turn/ rebuke as a cleric half your level. Both feats are in Dragon #305.

That's about it, and I've looked about every where.


Shroudcrown: This agate-studded bronze circlet holds considerable power over undead. The wearer of the shroudcrown can turn undead as a 10th-level cleric, and she gains a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities of undead creatures. Furthermore, the wearer is constantly affected as if by a hide from undead spell. Though the shroudcrown is not actually
cursed in any way, its owners have an unfortunate tendency to meet messy ends at the claws of the very undead creatures against which it protects.
Moderate abjuration; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, hide from undead, resistance, creator must be a cleric of at least 10th level; Price 113,600 gp
So affordable at 16th level for half your wealth.

[Vhaidara]

Divine Channeler seems OP.

Spending 2 feats for 1/day turn undead at half power? That's OP?

[Bonzai]

So affordable at 16th level for half your wealth.

Yup, that's the one. Like I said, it's pricey, but considering what it does, it should be.

[Hamste]

If you can get the feats for it lord of the uttercold and tomb tainted should are great for necromancers with a wizard base. Blast yourself and your minions back to health.