Reattaching body parts?

[heavyfuel]

Last night the party decided to find and kill the BBEG of the current arc, a Rogue who just so happened to have the Snatch Trophy feat and the characters that were dropped below 0 had some parts "collected" though they eventually won.

Now, besides rituals and DM Fiat, is there any way to re-attach body parts? These can be magical or mundane (really high Heal check, maybe?)

Edition is 3.5, but I accept most PF stuff

[FocusWolf413]

A regeneration spell works.

[heavyfuel]

A regeneration spell works.

It's for an E6 campaign, so the maximum level for characters is 6. Meaning that without serious cheese, the maximum spell level is 3

[Nibbens]

It's for an E6 campaign, so the maximum level for characters is 6. Meaning that without serious cheese, the maximum spell level is 3

If i'm not mistaken, scrolls can still be cast even when they are out the level range of a caster by really high UMD checks. Or perhaps the usual "hire a higher level wizard" trick?

[Greenish]

Dukar hand coral (CoV) allows you to regrow missing body parts in a matter of days, among other benefits, for just 1.6k gold.

[Necroticplague]

If i'm not mistaken, scrolls can still be cast even when they are out the level range of a caster by really high UMD checks. Or perhaps the usual "hire a higher level wizard" trick?

The problem being that in an e6 world, there aren't any 15th level clerics to create that scroll, nor to hire.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Dukar hand coral (CoV) allows you to regrow missing body parts in a matter of days, among other benefits, for just 1.6k gold.

Provided you still have a hand left to implant it in.:smalltongue:

[heavyfuel]

Dukar hand coral (CoV) allows you to regrow missing body parts in a matter of days, among other benefits, for just 1.6k gold.

Close, but doesn' quite work and it requires Minor Creation or Heal to create the item. Minor Creation is above the limit by a single spell level.

[Greenish]

Close, but doesn' quite work and it requires Minor Creation or Heal to create the item. Minor Creation is above the limit by a single spell level.Artificer.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ah, but wait! An artificer can craft stuff with 4th level spell requirements even in E6. This would make it very rare, but technically doable.

[heavyfuel]

Artificer.


Ah, but wait! An artificer can craft stuff with 4th level spell requirements even in E6. This would make it very rare, but technically doable.

Hmmm. I'm really not that familiar with how Artificers work, although there is one (lv 6) in the world already. Mind elaborating how it's done?

[ApologyFestival]

The problem being that in an e6 world, there aren't any 15th level clerics to create that scroll, nor to hire.
Creation of the scroll is beyond the power of mortals in an E6 world, but outsiders and legendary figures still exist. Truly exemplary service to a church could reasonably provide a few treasured scrolls from the vaults, or maybe an angel with access to regeneration as a spell-like ability could restore lost limbs as a reward. I understand that providing players with means to access high-level spells is counter to E6's goals, but surely exemptions can be made for lost limbs.


Close, but doesn' quite work and it requires Minor Creation or Heal to create the item. Minor Creation is above the limit by a single spell level.
If your world has psionics and psionic-magic transparency, a 1st-level shaper could create or assist in the creation of the item. Psionic minor creation is a 1st-level power.

[heavyfuel]

If your world has psionics and psionic-magic transparency, a 1st-level shaper could create or assist in the creation of the item. Psionic minor creation is a 1st-level power.

Sorry, no Psionics... I also don't use psionic-magic transparency beyond the XPH rule (SR, Dispel and Detect Magic, and AMFs)

[Fouredged Sword]

Hmmm. I'm really not that familiar with how Artificers work, although there is one (lv 6) in the world already. Mind elaborating how it's done?

An artificer can craft items with 4th level spells due to the "artificer level+2" clause in their item crafting rules. They can make anything an 8th level wizard or cleric could make. They have to make a (mildly) difficult skill check to do so, but they have lots of skill boosting built directly into the class invocations.

They can ALSO scum through all those PRC lists that have spells at lower levels.

[Nibbens]

The problem being that in an e6 world, there aren't any 15th level clerics to create that scroll, nor to hire.

Ooooooooooooooooooh! *Stands Corrected*

Sorry, I was unaware of what E6 was. lol. Now I know! :D

[Psyren]

The problem being that in an e6 world, there aren't any 15th level clerics to create that scroll, nor to hire.

Not currently, but that doesn't mean higher level spells (or incantations, rituals etc.) aren't still lying around from a forgotten age. After all, the same arguments could apply to resurrection, yet I'm sure there's been some E6 campaigns that allowed you to do that.

[heavyfuel]

A question: How high would a Heal check DC be to do that? Like, I don't assume it would be insenly high. My gut tells me it would be 30. Maybe 25+x where X is the amount of hours the part's been missing from the body.

What do you guys think?

[Zubrowka74]

Profession (Seamster) ?

[heavyfuel]

Profession (Seamster) ?

I suppose that would give him a Synergy bonus, but really, it should be a Heal check

[Red Fel]

A question: How high would a Heal check DC be to do that? Like, I don't assume it would be insenly high. My gut tells me it would be 30. Maybe 25+x where X is the amount of hours the part's been missing from the body.

What do you guys think?

I don't think a Heal check could reattach a lost limb. Apart from epic skill checks, skills generally can't reproduce explicitly supernatural results, and causing a severed limb to reattach and be fully functional, outside of a truly exceptional surgical facility with state-of-the-art materials and training, is pretty close to magical.

Take a look at the regular uses of Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/heal.htm). It's fairly mundane: recovering HP, stabilizing at death, removing crippling injuries (i.e. restoring movement speed), treating poisons and diseases. Fairly mundane. Now look at the epic uses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#heal) of the skill - doing the exact same thing, but much faster. Recover your HP in an hour as you would in a day, or in a week. Basically, it's the same HP-recovery functionality, but faster.

And that's HP recovery - you're basically just accelerating what the body does naturally (healing itself over time). As a rule, reattaching severed limbs is not something the body does naturally over time. Now, modern medicine can reattach a fully severed limb. But it requires a lot - precise training, a sterile environment, prompt response, precise tools, and an extensive period of physical therapy. A flub in any one of these can lead to serious, even lethal complications.

Consider again the fact that, allowing a person to recover a day's worth of HP in an hour is a DC 50 check; a week's worth is 100. And that's equated to bandages, salves, and plenty of bed rest. This is substantially more than applying a poultice and some chicken soup; this requires more supplies, more training, and more precision than other Heal checks. I'd say that restoring a lost limb is easily a Heal DC of well over 100.

Bottom line, E6 is more lethal, more tactical. With less high-level magic to throw around, you can't bounce back from death or crippling injury as easily. The power to reattach a severed limb is suitably epic, and would likely require undertaking an epic quest. So give it to your PCs! Give them a quest to find the legendary Lake of Healing, or Goblet of Wholeness, or the Ark of Wishes, or some suitably amazing thing that will give them back what they've lost.

Or, you know, buy grafts. Because grafts are a thing.

[heavyfuel]

It's something doctors do all the time, suturing parts back together, and that's what I was using as guideline. Not even modern medicine can make a person heal 24 times faster (DC 50), so arguably it would be less than that.

Then we have PFSRD with the Asclepian Doctor feat (from SKR) which puts the the DC for much harsher things at 20 (though you need 7 PF ranks, or 10 3.5 ranks in heal, both can be achieved with the "Skilled Beyond your Years" E6 feat)

So really, I was thinking, with a similar feat, it could be a DC 30 or 25+x

[Coidzor]

Creation of the scroll is beyond the power of mortals in an E6 world, but outsiders and legendary figures still exist. Truly exemplary service to a church could reasonably provide a few treasured scrolls from the vaults, or maybe an angel with access to regeneration as a spell-like ability could restore lost limbs as a reward. I understand that providing players with means to access high-level spells is counter to E6's goals, but surely exemptions can be made for lost limbs.

That, or the DM should really reconsider their pro-dismemberment stance.

[Red Fel]

It's something doctors do all the time, suturing parts back together, and that's what I was using as guideline. Not even modern medicine can make a person heal 24 times faster (DC 50), so arguably it would be less than that.

Then we have PFSRD with the Asclepian Doctor feat (from SKR) which puts the the DC for much harsher things at 20 (though you need 7 PF ranks, or 10 3.5 ranks in heal, both can be achieved with the "Skilled Beyond your Years" E6 feat)

So really, I was thinking, with a similar feat, it could be a DC 30 or 25+x

First off, that feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/sean-k-reynolds-games/general-feats---3rd-party---sean-k-reynolds-games/asclepian-doctor) is third party, so grain of salt.

Second, it places the base DC for raising the dead at only 10 more than healing 1d8 HP. That's right, it's a DC 20 to heal 1d8 HP, a DC 30 to raise someone who died that same day. That should give you some idea of how balanced the feat is.

And third, look at the "Repair Injury" function, which is also DC 20. It explicitly states that it cannot regrow missing tissue or recover lost limbs. Now, admittedly, what you're describing is reattaching a limb, not regrowing it, but still, that's the closest in the description, and it kind of precludes what you want.

Short version, if you really want to homebrew a feat that lets people stitch dead tissue back on, fine. But you wanted to avoid DM fiat, and homebrew wanders a bit close to precisely that.

Those grafts are still out there, chief.

[heavyfuel]

That, or the DM should really reconsider their pro-dismemberment stance.

Fighting a capital E Evil sadistic big bad has consequences. You can't expect to come out of such a fight unharmed.


First off, that feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/sean-k-reynolds-games/general-feats---3rd-party---sean-k-reynolds-games/asclepian-doctor) is third party, so grain of salt.

Second, it places the base DC for raising the dead at only 10 more than healing 1d8 HP. That's right, it's a DC 20 to heal 1d8 HP, a DC 30 to raise someone who died that same day. That should give you some idea of how balanced the feat is.

And third, look at the "Repair Injury" function, which is also DC 20. It explicitly states that it cannot regrow missing tissue or recover lost limbs. Now, admittedly, what you're describing is reattaching a limb, not regrowing it, but still, that's the closest in the description, and it kind of precludes what you want.

Short version, if you really want to homebrew a feat that lets people stitch dead tissue back on, fine. But you wanted to avoid DM fiat, and homebrew wanders a bit close to precisely that.

Those grafts are still out there, chief.

I knew it's 3rd party, I just thought that, being in pfsrd meant it was PF approved. Though you're right about the resurrect DC being too low.

I really don't want grafts in my campaign, as I'm not familiar enough with them. Also, don't they like, make you crazy if you're not evil?

Guess I'll just have the artificer make that coral item, maybe amp up the price due to its rarity

[Coidzor]

Fighting a capital E Evil sadistic big bad has consequences. You can't expect to come out of such a fight unharmed.

unharmed =/= permanently disabled because the DM is deadset against any potential way to alleviate the damage and was super-focused on permanently gimping characters rather than trying to win the fight.

You also seem to either have failed fully consider the consequences of such or you're cataloging the potential solutions the party can find in order to make sure you have a way to shoot them all down, neither of which is exactly best practices.

[heavyfuel]

unharmed =/= permanently disabled because the DM is deadset against any potential way to alleviate the damage and was super-focused on permanently gimping characters rather than trying to win the fight.

You also seem to either have failed fully consider the consequences of such or you're cataloging the potential solutions the party can find in order to make sure you have a way to shoot them all down, neither of which is exactly best practices.

It was known by the party that he kept trophies. Don't know about you, but I'd be pissed if, as a player, I knew that and he didn't maim me just out of DM fiat.

I had also fully considered the consequences, all of them can be overcome, and then some, with a feat (like SF:Listen), a not so precious commodity in e6. What I am looking for is another way for them to overcome these scars

And in d&d, not being permanently damaged pretty much means unharmed, as all else takes no more than 8 hours and a cleric to heal

[Psyren]

Fighting a capital E Evil sadistic big bad has consequences. You can't expect to come out of such a fight unharmed.

Er... there are far more imaginative and interesting consequences you can inflict on PCs than simply "your martial character is useless now."

[heavyfuel]

Er... there are far more imaginative and interesting consequences you can inflict on PCs than simply "your martial character is useless now."

Could you give examples?

Also, losing an ear doesn't make anyone useless, nor does losing a finger. I realize now that I didn't say what the injuries were, but no one lost a hand o a whole foot. These injuries were supposed to be overcome one way or another, depending on the injury. I'm just looking for alternative ways.

[Psyren]

If it's something inconsequential like an ear or finger or even an eye then yeah, the character will generally retain functionality, but that also makes the gesture kinda pointless aside from fluff. But if it's a hand or foot, it will drastically impact certain characters, most notably martial classes.

As for examples of what I would do - high-CL curses, programmed instructions, unwanted passengers (consider the entire line of Necroctic Cyst feats, or look for monsters that can ride around in an unwitting victim's body), retaining some of their hair or skin to scry on them/make clones or ice assassins later, reading their memories to go after their family and friends, afflicting them with an addiction, just about anything to do with Taint... there's a lot you can do that will impede their chances of success without cutting off entire avenues of study to them. A tainted fighter can still fight - yeah he might go crazy periodically during combat, or see things that aren't there, or have occasional bouts of nausea, but he has two hands to hold a sword with and two legs to move quickly around the battlefield. That sort of thing.

[Coidzor]

It was known by the party that he kept trophies. Don't know about you, but I'd be pissed if, as a player, I knew that and he didn't maim me just out of DM fiat.

You'd be pissed that the enemy wasn't stupid? :smallconfused: I mean, there's taking trophies from, y'know, defeated or slain foes and stopping in the middle of a fight to be a git when one's survival is on the line.

Besides, there's a big difference between taking, say, someone's ear or setting down and lopping off one of their hands, feet, or the entire bloody limb.

Besides, you only maimed them out of DM capriciousness in the first place anyway. You decided that they'd run into a foe that was more concerned about maiming them so that they're easy pickings for the next villain than actually winning.


I had also fully considered the consequences, all of them can be overcome, and then some, with a feat (like SF:Listen), a not so precious commodity in e6. What I am looking for is another way for them to overcome these scars

So you want to have them be forced to eat a feat to fix this problem and you want to shut down all other non-feat-based methods? Or did you just realize that maybe requiring them to take a feat for this might be a little extreme, showing that you did not, in fact, fully consider this move


And in d&d, not being permanently damaged pretty much means unharmed, as all else takes no more than 8 hours and a cleric to heal

To a certain extent. Even death is temporary compared to what you've decided is a good idea to do and require a feat to fix.

[Bronk]

Not all grafts make you evil... fiendish grafts might, but there are many other kinds.

If you really want to heal them though, you might have to suck it up and have higher level magic. You were against shenanigans, but maybe they could encounter a friendly nymph with a free fourth level druid spell slot and a lucky reincarnation roll...

[GreyBlack]

AND NOW, FOR THE CONTINUING WONDERS OF MEDICAL SCIENCE!

If I were you, I would have the characters roll a Heal or Knowledge (biology) check. If they make it, then they would be able to know about stories of limbs being reattached by doctors. If they make it back to the village/city, and if their limbs are relatively intact/fresh (preserve corpse for a spell, for example, or keeping it on ice), then a doctor with Skill Focus (Heal), access to state of the art equipment, an astronomical dexterity, Self-Sufficient, maxed profession (doctor), and heal checks, then I'd set that against a Heal Check of DC 30 to reattach the limb.

This is actually science: people have lost limbs and had them reattached before, so I would model it much like that. Roll a % to see if the limbs are sufficiently fresh and preserved and, if they are, let the doctor reattach them after several hours of surgery. If they aren't, well, sorry Jack.

EDIT: Just so there's no confusion, i'd also model it as such:
Level 3 Expert (Doctor) - 18 wisdom or intelligence (likely one of the smartest doctors around, and I've never liked that Heal was based on Wis) (+4) with Skill Focus (Heal) (+2) and Self-Sufficient (+2) for feats. Doctor has access to state of the art equipment (+2 masterwork tools) and synergy skill bonus (+2). Having an assistant working with him gives +2 as well. Adding up these bonuses, he would get a +14 bonus to reattach before skill ranks. Assuming 6 ranks, he gets +20, meaning that if the doctor took 10, he would be able to reattach those limbs. Assuming correct after-care (6-8 weeks), the nerves should reattach themselves together and you should gain functionality after 2 months of physical therapy.

[heavyfuel]

You'd be pissed that the enemy wasn't stupid? :smallconfused: I mean, there's taking trophies from, y'know, defeated or slain foes and stopping in the middle of a fight to be a git when one's survival is on the line.

Besides, there's a big difference between taking, say, someone's ear or setting down and lopping off one of their hands, feet, or the entire bloody limb.

Besides, you only maimed them out of DM capriciousness in the first place anyway. You decided that they'd run into a foe that was more concerned about maiming them so that they're easy pickings for the next villain than actually winning.

Snatch Trophy is a free action after you drop someone below 0 HP. So yeah, Id be pissed if he didn't draw from his near limitless resource pool (free actions) to maim me. It would be out of character for him and I feel like my actions don't matter because the DM will just save me with plot armor.


So you want to have them be forced to eat a feat to fix this problem and you want to shut down all other non-feat-based methods? Or did you just realize that maybe requiring them to take a feat for this might be a little extreme, showing that you did not, in fact, fully consider this move

To a certain extent. Even death is temporary compared to what you've decided is a good idea to do and require a feat to fix.

Nope, I didn't decide that a feat tax would be too much. Between beating him and all of his crew, the party got enough XP to get 1+1/2 feat. Not to mention the considerable addition to their wealth and reputation. The players, however, asked me these questions, and so I came to you. The feat tax is good imo, I just don't want to deny my players other methods.

And death is not temporary in e6. Creating a new character means you're still playing, but if your PC dies, he's dead. Dying in my table means your new character will have less feats and less wealth, so it's objectively worse to die.


AND NOW, FOR THE CONTINUING WONDERS OF MEDICAL SCIENCE!

If I were you, I would have the characters roll a Heal or Knowledge (biology) check. If they make it, then they would be able to know about stories of limbs being reattached by doctors. If they make it back to the village/city, and if their limbs are relatively intact/fresh (preserve corpse for a spell, for example, or keeping it on ice), then a doctor with Skill Focus (Heal), access to state of the art equipment, an astronomical dexterity, Self-Sufficient, maxed profession (doctor), and heal checks, then I'd set that against a Heal Check of DC 30 to reattach the limb.

This is actually science: people have lost limbs and had them reattached before, so I would model it much like that. Roll a % to see if the limbs are sufficiently fresh and preserved and, if they are, let the doctor reattach them after several hours of surgery. If they aren't, well, sorry Jack.

EDIT: Just so there's no confusion, i'd also model it as such:
Level 3 Expert (Doctor) - 18 wisdom or intelligence (likely one of the smartest doctors around, and I've never liked that Heal was based on Wis) (+4) with Skill Focus (Heal) (+2) and Self-Sufficient (+2) for feats. Doctor has access to state of the art equipment (+2 masterwork tools) and synergy skill bonus (+2). Having an assistant working with him gives +2 as well. Adding up these bonuses, he would get a +14 bonus to reattach before skill ranks. Assuming 6 ranks, he gets +20, meaning that if the doctor took 10, he would be able to reattach those limbs. Assuming correct after-care (6-8 weeks), the nerves should reattach themselves together and you should gain functionality after 2 months of physical therapy.

That's exactly along the lines of what I was thinking after the players asked if medicine was good enough in the world for such prcedures. Not just a doctor, the best doctor around. They're also in the largest city in the known world, so if there's a person like this in the world, it's in this city. The cleric also was smart enough to grab a couple scrolls of Preserve Organ, which will keep everything fresh for 24hrs.

If there are adventurers capable of beating up an elephant with their bare hands, or take 5 heavy crossbow hits to the face and be fine, there's no reason a DC 30 heal check shouldn't be able to reattach a finger that's been magically conserved.

I'll still think about whether I should allow such a check or not though

[Psyren]

Could you give examples?

Also, losing an ear doesn't make anyone useless, nor does losing a finger. I realize now that I didn't say what the injuries were, but no one lost a hand o a whole foot. These injuries were supposed to be overcome one way or another, depending on the injury. I'm just looking for alternative ways.


If it's something inconsequential like an ear or finger or even an eye then yeah, the character will generally retain functionality, but that also makes the gesture kinda pointless aside from fluff. But if it's a hand or foot, it will drastically impact certain characters, most notably martial classes.

As for examples of what I would do - high-CL curses, programmed instructions, unwanted passengers (consider the entire line of Necroctic Cyst feats, or look for monsters that can ride around in an unwitting victim's body), retaining some of their hair or skin to scry on them/make clones or ice assassins later, reading their memories to go after their family and friends, afflicting them with an addiction, just about anything to do with Taint... there's a lot you can do that will impede their chances of success without cutting off entire avenues of study to them. A tainted fighter can still fight - yeah he might go crazy periodically during combat, or see things that aren't there, or have occasional bouts of nausea, but he has two hands to hold a sword with and two legs to move quickly around the battlefield. That sort of thing.

Reposting in case you missed my answer

[Bronk]

Hmm, the silthilar from Lords of Madness are relatively low level (9HD) good aligned aberration/fey that have 'mastered the art of grafting and shaping living flesh to suit their own needs'. They have some fairly expensive grafts, but could use their skills for lesser things too. If all else fails, they have a version of PAO they could use as a supernatural ability... That could be better than the nymph/reincarnation example.

[tomandtish]

It's something doctors do all the time, suturing parts back together, and that's what I was using as guideline. Not even modern medicine can make a person heal 24 times faster (DC 50), so arguably it would be less than that.



The first documented successful reattachment of a limb was the reattachment of the arm of a 12yo at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, MA, USA in 1962. Among other things, it involved successful repair of the brachial artery.

And that's the big thing, making sure arteries and veins line up correctly and are sewn correctly.

Some quick looking online seems to indicate the following (I could find no one site with a lot of data):

Odds of limb being eligible for reattachment: usually low (although clean severing injuries are a more likely candidate).

IF they decide to reattach, odds of successful reattachment (limb will stay on without having to be subsequently removed): 70% (but seems to drop the larger the limb, so fingers have a better chance than a wrist, which has a better chance than a leg).

Percentage of use of the limb: Even if reattachment takes, most people lose some of the functionality. Most followup studies I was able to find seem to indicate that 50%-80% functionality is the norm, again dropping with regards to the size and complexity of the limb.

In short, it's not all that old a technique by historical standards. and unlike our normal heal checks, there probably isn't going to be a fully functional limb at the end of it.

[heavyfuel]

If it's something inconsequential like an ear or finger or even an eye then yeah, the character will generally retain functionality, but that also makes the gesture kinda pointless aside from fluff. But if it's a hand or foot, it will drastically impact certain characters, most notably martial classes.

As for examples of what I would do - high-CL curses, programmed instructions, unwanted passengers (consider the entire line of Necroctic Cyst feats, or look for monsters that can ride around in an unwitting victim's body), retaining some of their hair or skin to scry on them/make clones or ice assassins later, reading their memories to go after their family and friends, afflicting them with an addiction, just about anything to do with Taint... there's a lot you can do that will impede their chances of success without cutting off entire avenues of study to them. A tainted fighter can still fight - yeah he might go crazy periodically during combat, or see things that aren't there, or have occasional bouts of nausea, but he has two hands to hold a sword with and two legs to move quickly around the battlefield. That sort of thing.

Yeah, it was never supposed to have much of a mechanical effect. Only a little.

Problem is that, besides Necrotic Cyst, Taint, and going after their loved ones, none of those apply to e6. Even then, the Cyst and Taint can both be removed fairly easily, and the Cyst means spending an action to maybe curse them in they live. Well, I much preferred spending that action dealing another handful of d6s of damage (He had already killed a few loved ones)


The first documented successful reattachment of a limb was the reattachment of the arm of a 12yo at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, MA, USA in 1962. Among other things, it involved successful repair of the brachial artery.

And that's the big thing, making sure arteries and veins line up correctly and are sewn correctly.

Some quick looking online seems to indicate the following (I could find no one site with a lot of data):

Odds of limb being eligible for reattachment: usually low (although clean severing injuries are a more likely candidate).

IF they decide to reattach, odds of successful reattachment (limb will stay on without having to be subsequently removed): 70% (but seems to drop the larger the limb, so fingers have a better chance than a wrist, which has a better chance than a leg).

Percentage of use of the limb: Even if reattachment takes, most people lose some of the functionality. Most followup studies I was able to find seem to indicate that 50%-80% functionality is the norm, again dropping with regards to the size and complexity of the limb.

In short, it's not all that old a technique by historical standards. and unlike our normal heal checks, there probably isn't going to be a fully functional limb at the end of it.

This is much better than saying "Heal checks are useless because there are no rules for such things". Thanks for bringing this to my attention. However, we should still remember that while this is a low fantasy setting, it's still a fantasy setting. A Heal DC of over 30 is WAY beyond what a normal doctor could achieve in that age. A normal doctor would be a lv 1 Expert with 4 ranks, SF:Heal, self-sufficient and maybe 13 Wis. If he takes 10 with an assistant, we're looking at 4+3+2+1+10+2=22. So a tough but doable check of 40, which isn't even a possibility for the normal guy,

A kickass doctor would be a 5th level cleric. With max ranks, 22 wis (18 + Owl's Wisdom), synergy, masterwork toolkit, assistant, an extra feat, a custom item of +5, and outside magical support (Divine Insight is +10), you have 8+6+3+2+2+2+2+5+10+10=50. That's an Epic DC in case you weren't paying attention. That's the DC character that are literally immortal beat. He can stich your finger back just fine.


Hmm, the silthilar from Lords of Madness are relatively low level (9HD) good aligned aberration/fey that have 'mastered the art of grafting and shaping living flesh to suit their own needs'. They have some fairly expensive grafts, but could use their skills for lesser things too. If all else fails, they have a version of PAO they could use as a supernatural ability... That could be better than the nymph/reincarnation example.

I really dislike the idea of having sentient races of ECL above 6 in an E6 game, so this race most definitely doesn't exist in the world.

[Psyren]

Yeah, it was never supposed to have much of a mechanical effect. Only a little.

Problem is that, besides Necrotic Cyst, Taint, and going after their loved ones, none of those apply to e6. Even then, the Cyst and Taint can both be removed fairly easily, and the Cyst means spending an action to maybe curse them in they live. Well, I much preferred spending that action dealing another handful of d6s of damage (He had already killed a few loved ones)

In E6 those are pretty difficult to remove actually. The lowest ones that can do it are RD and RC, and both contain clauses that "special curses/diseases may not be countered by this spell." The rest - Atonement, Heal, Miracle etc. - are generally out of reach of an E6 game.

[heavyfuel]

In E6 those are pretty difficult to remove actually. The lowest ones that can do it are RD and RC, and both contain clauses that "special curses/diseases may not be countered by this spell." The rest - Atonement, Heal, Miracle etc. - are generally out of reach of an E6 game.

The cyst requires a DC 20 heal, I just showed a cleric 5 beating a DC 50 above (though I may have overlooked some non-stacking bonus). He's strong, but he's still not epic, not even for e6

Taint can be removed by good deeds. Sure, it's a pain to do that, especially with the amount of restrictions imposed, but it's too far from permanent.

[Psyren]

Taint can be removed by good deeds. Sure, it's a pain to do that, especially with the amount of restrictions imposed, but it's too far from permanent.

It's permanent if you want it to be. Taint ability:


Simple good deeds are not enough to remove taint. A character wishing to reduce his taint score through good deeds must undertake a particular ritual under the guidance of one of his deity’s clerics. The ritual prepares the character to undertake the deed.

The ritual is not specified, and only sample deeds are given, so both are up to you. It's not going to happen unless you specifically enable it - which, if you're maiming characters in the first place sounds like you want the effects to be fairly lasting.

[Nightcanon]

If we're talking cosmetic damage only, one option is that the PCs think of it not as losing a finger/ ear, but as gaining a new nickname and a cool new story ("...anyhoo, that's how I lost me nose, and how me and Three-Finger Tom killed the mad scalper. Thanks for the ale. What's that son? How do I smell? Pretty terrible, wouldn't you say!")
Alternatively, I did hear tell that St Tordealbach the Loon regrew his foot after it was bitten clean off in a fight with the Wyrm of Tannar. They say that he fasted and prayed for a week in the Basilica of San Gianno in Ulstarn. They do say that after he was sainted his relics were kept in a box there, and if the Lord Canon of the Basilica prays over a wounded man in the White Chapel on St Tordealbach's day, miraculous healing kay be granted to the faithful.. (plot hook: do quest for the Lord Canon of St Tordealbach, before 2 months have passed, to get ritual restoration spell)

[Ashtagon]

If your world has psionics and psionic-magic transparency, a 1st-level shaper could create or assist in the creation of the item. Psionic minor creation is a 1st-level power.

That transparency rule only means detection and dispelling spells/powers function against powers/spells of the other kind. It doesn't allow for more general substitution.

[JDL]

Artificer scroll cheese + Reincarnation. Why grow back a finger when you can get a whole damn new body?

[goto124]

Using the above method, can I turn my detached arm into a nice little wield-able weapon and make lots of horrible puns?



*No I cannot two hand my fist.

*Not allowed to play a race with 3 or more arms, just to cut off one arm and two-hand it.

** Using two arms to swing the third without cutting it off first is right out.

*** I may not cut off the hands of a monk and use them as improvised weapons for 2d8 damage.

****Enchanting them and making them a major artifact is RIGHT out.

***** Enchanting it to explode after the fingers count down does not make it a Hand Grenade.

****** No, my character is not "lending a hand" when he beats them with the dismembered explosive hand.
******* If I do that with Lenin's arm, he's not "Lenin a hand" either.

****** Claiming to really hand it too the enemy is right out.

*******Being hired to acquire such a hand is not a "hand job" and never will be.
********I am not allowed to say "This thing is really handy" after every single kill I get with it.

*********And when I congratulate another party member with said hand, I am not allowed to say "Gotta hand it to you" or any variation therein.

xth* If I take on a foe by myself with the hand an win, not allowed to say I beat them singlehandedly single-handed.

yth* If I take out a foe while the hand is in my backpack, I am not allowed to say that I beat them with one hand behind my back.

[atemu1234]

Unfortunately the Grafting feat requires 10 ranks in heal. At 6th level, well...

[SangoProduction]

Consider, if you would, that D&D uses an abstract point-based damage system. You are trying to import specific, actual damage into this system. That's not going to work by raw, because it's an entirely different system.

However, there is a third-party book, Torn Asunder which adds specific damage to critical hits, including lopping off fingers and what have you. Similarly, it contains methods for healing the damage. 1d4 fingers would be a moderate crit, so a moderate cure light wounds would heal it. Where as losing half their arm would be a serious crit, requiring serious cure light wounds.