What power level would this be?

[Judge_Worm]

After 3 months and 12 burned out campaigns. My group's starting over, again. Yay!

Anyway the campaign idea this time is a low-mid level singular objective campaign (because we keep trying to start extremely long campaigns and fail). It takes place in a New World type scenario where the "Old World" (standard high fantasy) has begun setting up shop or colonies, call it what you will. We will be playing natives who are doing something for some reason (I don't know what or why). What this means is that we don't have access to metal weapons or armor (and wouldn't know how to use any we scavenged); the only arcane casters are Sorcerers, Witches and Adepts, ; no Ardents or Psions, but other psionic classes are okay; no Clerics, but instead Favored Souls gain cleric class features and are called "Shaman"; no monks (this affected noone); Paladins lose smite evil class feature, their alignment restriction loosened (LN, LG, or NG), and they can take a mount (no Old World animals like horses, elephants or camels) with CR equal to Paladin level; and finally no core races, not from the PHB or MM.

Now to exploit use these regulations I plan on starting with a level 6 anthropomorphic lizard (a Saurixtl I'm calling it) Paladin who fights with an obsidian long spear on the back of a Half-Celestial* Rust Monster (CR 6).

The question being, how powerful is this? I'm worried that if we end up fighting a bunch of old worlders that my flying mount of metallic doom will be too powerful, but on the other hand if we don't then what good is a gold eating layabout when it's only food is my loot?


*Before it's asked, I'll be rolling my mount's stats so the RM's 2 Int is actually a -8 to that ability score, as long as I can get at least a 12 in that stat it can qualify for Half-Celestial.

[Vhaidara]

That sounds like around a T4, T3 if you went absolutely nuts with ACFs.

Sounds like an absolutely fun build. Did paladins get anything to compensate for losing their main class feature?

[mvpmack]

Probably T4. It sounds pretty OK, though I'd play a druid, sorc, or bard in this environment depending on the overall needs of my team. Barbarian might be good too, since you could probably get like, some kind of greatclub or stone greataxe.

Also how can you not know how to use a weapon as a martial class? I have training in operating and using rifles, and it would take me virtually 0 time to learn to handle and fire a black powder gun or crossbow. It would take me a few days to learn how to reload one proficiently. D&D martial characters are superhuman masters of the battlefield. They should just be able to see a sword, and as soon as they identified it as a cutting implement, use it effectively.

[(Un)Inspired]

Sounds pretty low power I think you might want to be worried that you're not going to be effective enough.

It sounds like Erudite is the king of classes in this setting. Probably artificers as well.

[Flickerdart]

Don't forget that the Paladin special mount sets Int rather than boosts it - so it would have an Int of 6, regardless of the base creature. Make sure it has at least 8 WIS to get the SLAs.

I've played with a half-celestial magebred (+0 CR templates, learn to love them) warhorse as a paladin mount. Between the high AC, SR, DR, and energy resistances, it was like a tank, and the incredibly fast fly speed helped me blitzkrieg everything we met.

[Vhaidara]

It sounds like Erudite is the king of classes in this setting. Probably artificers as well.

Erudite is actually a Psion variant, so it get's banned with Psion. I'm guessing he probably just forgot to mention an Artificer ban, it wouldn't line up at all with the idea of them being the primitive people.

Yes, we're primitive. Please ignore the robots marching in the background.

[(Un)Inspired]

Erudite is actually a Psion variant, so it get's banned with Psion. I'm guessing he probably just forgot to mention an Artificer ban, it wouldn't line up at all with the idea of them being the primitive people.

Yes, we're primitive. Please ignore the robots marching in the background.

An artificer could be someone who sees all this old world tech and it just kinda clicks for them. They're able to reverse engineer it and create their own wonders. I think it would be a cool edition to the world and it wasn't banned.

You're right about erudite though.

[Judge_Worm]

Internet ate my reply.
Edit: spit it back out
Edit #2: and then ate my original edit


Probably T4. It sounds pretty OK, though I'd play a druid, sorc, or bard in this environment depending on the overall needs of my team. Barbarian might be good too, since you could probably get like, some kind of greatclub or stone greataxe.

Also how can you not know how to use a weapon as a martial class? I have training in operating and using rifles, and it would take me virtually 0 time to learn to handle and fire a black powder gun or crossbow. It would take me a few days to learn how to reload one proficiently. D&D martial characters are superhuman masters of the battlefield. They should just be able to see a sword, and as soon as they identified it as a cutting implement, use it effectively.

At first I was thinking Wilder but then it hit me- Rust Monster mount, which was just too awesome not to do.
As for the second part. I dunno, not that it matters since obsidian is like the most BAMF material to use albeit ridiculously expensive for such use irl. In game it basically replaces Adamantine (for enhancement and strength) and Cold Iron(for damage reduction) and it automatically gives the wounding property, all for the price of mithril. But then again I also get stuck with crappy wooden armor.
The armor bit makes sense if only because you wouldn't know how to put it on, I couldn't put myself in fullplate. The weapon bit is a bit of a stretch but kinda makes sense when you consider that our characters have only ever seen metal used as jewelry or currency, why would you waste something decorative like that as a weapon?



That sounds like around a T4, T3 if you went absolutely nuts with ACFs.

Sounds like an absolutely fun build. Did paladins get anything to compensate for losing their main class feature?

A broken mount. And no code of conduct. And 1 fighter bonus feat every three levels, which I forgot to mention in the op.

And which ACFs could I go nuts on?
I do have the opportunity to swap my casting with that of a Ranger, Bard, or PsyWar.



Sounds pretty low power I think you might want to be worried that you're not going to be effective enough.

It sounds like Erudite is the king of classes in this setting. Probably artificers as well.

No Psions. Druid is king (as always). I'm tired of playing full casters anyway. And I haven't played a paladin in so long...



The general consensus is Tier 4ish, my goal being no more than low tier 3ish. So this works out. I think I'm the only healer too, I guess that means I'm gonna need a larger share of the loot.

[Vhaidara]

Oh, well, I was going to say A-Game Paladin (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376) levels of ACFing. It basically trades out everything "Paladin" about the paladin.

With your options, I would actually go for PsyWar manifesting. If the GM allows you to manifest mobility buffs onto your mount (you have got Share Spells), then you could have some real fun with that.

[sideswipe]

over 9000.....

[ericgrau]

A mount with CR = your level rather than ECL = your level means this is super powerful. You'll be better off giving most of your gear to it rather than using much yourself, and this will create something above its CR and above your level in power. Destroying your loot may keep this in check though not all loot is metal. And it might make your party mad too.

[Judge_Worm]

A mount with CR = your level rather than ECL = your level means this is super powerful. You'll be better off giving most of your gear to it rather than using much yourself, and this will create something above its CR and above your level in power. Destroying your loot may keep this in check though not all loot is metal. And it might make your party mad too.

I noticed the easily brokenness of it immediately. All those lower CR than LA templates...


Oh, well, I was going to say A-Game Paladin (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376) levels of ACFing. It basically trades out everything "Paladin" about the paladin.

With your options, I would actually go for PsyWar manifesting. If the GM allows you to manifest mobility buffs onto your mount (you have got Share Spells), then you could have some real fun with that.

I took PsyWar manifesting, and traded Lay on Hands, Remove Disease, and my Turn Undead for a fighter bonus for fighter bonus feats (as a PsyWar) which basically makes me a psychic warrior with a some paladin features.



The party has been decided;
Myself: Anthropomorphic Lizard Paladin
Other Guy #1: Varag Barbarian/Rogue
Other Guy #2: Warforged Barbarian
Other Guy #3: Killoren Favored Soul
Team Leader: Aventi Sorcerer
Surprisingly no Druids or Rangers
We're apparently all agents of the Temple of Quexicoatl(spelling?) I'm a sergeant of the local militia who volunteered to aid the Temple in their time of need, amongst my companions are is my top lieutenant, a Temple guardian, a local shaman, and leading the pack is a sorcerer-priest. We are on a mission to recover a lost artifact that was stolen from a destroyed temple.
Our first brilliant idea, well random guess, was the invading peoples. So we attack one of their vessels, sailed halfway out to sea, and then lit their fleet on fire. Then we got stuck because surprisingly none of us knew how to pilot a galleon. So in a moment of shear genius our shaman came up with the idea of sacrificing the captured crew members to regain the favor of our gods. Which was pretty good timing because the Priest was contemplating making a swim for shore. However the millennia old temple guardian made a brazen, almost blasphemous comment that instead of sacrificing the enemy we could instead coerce them to pilot vessel. Having none of that, I gave him(her?, it?) a stern talking to. We proceeded to sacrifice the captives, after the second to last one a sudden powerful gust blew us back to a nearby fishing village. In celebration of our victory we sacrificed the last captive (their leader) in a public ceremony. Then we used some of our new found wealth to have the local priestess speak with the dead captain, unfortunately it yielded no results except that an even bigger fleet would be on its way. So we dumped all the excess gold at the local temple. We kept one of their exploding sticks, which the varag, having the most experience out of all of us in using magical devices attempted to reverse engineer it. He, well didn't succeed at it, but we did learn the shiny rocks go in after the powder, and he has a new name, "One-Eye."
Also, shiny rocks not deflected by wooden breast plate.