Best Place to keep your backup spell book?

[magicalmagicman]

1. In your home. Your DM may raid this home with a group of NPC adventurers so you don't have it
2. Buried somewhere. Your DM may say a random guy or creature digging randomly found it
3. Secret Chest. Your DM may say a random ethereal creature found the chest and looted it. Or you lose the focus.
4. Have a called creature hold onto it. DM may say that creature died in battle somewhere.
5. Tattoo a called creature. DM may say that creature died in battle somewhere and body was annihilated so can't be scryed
6. Carve the spellbook on some giant structure, and scry it to study it. DM may say the structure got demolished.
7. Carve the spellbook on a construct/undead, and somehow give it the ability to teleport to you. DM may say the creature got killed somehow.
8. Carry the backup spellbook with you. Inside a portable hole or bag of holding is option. DM may say when you lost your main spellbook, you lost your backup as well.
9. Keep one in a possum pouch on you.

Method of duplications
1. Normal way
2. Secret Page
3. Permanent Image.

*Things you can't do
1. Permanency + Shrink Item and swallow/regurgitate the spellbook or bag of holding. The thing weighs several kilograms, so having it in your stomach will kill you.

My current questions:
1. What's a great creature for #4 and #5?
2. What's a great structure for #6.
3. What's a great creature for #7? Best I got is a simulacrum of a demon/devil for the at will greater teleports, making it practically unkillable.
4. What are some other places to put your backup spellbook?

I'm trying to find the best place to put the backup spell book. Every backup spellbook can be countered but I'm trying to find the one that's the hardest to counter.

[WeaselGuy]

I mean, I keep my Alchemist's Magical Lab in a Portable Hole, complete with my own Wright and a ten foot ladder. See no reason why that won't work for your own Arcane Studio...

Personally, I'm a fan of the Hoard Gullet spell, but I think maybe that's what you had in mind when you spoke of swallowing/regurgitating permanencied + shrink item stuff... although, even if it weighed several kilos, shrinking it would make it weigh less, unless I'm mistaken.

[magicalmagicman]

This is a backup spellbook, so unless hoard gullet lasts at least 1day/level, it wouldn't qualify. Do you know of a way to make it last 1day/level? That would be great.

I forgot about the most simplest method: Carrying a 2nd copy around with you. Thanks for reminding me of that, I'll put it up.

[Yahzi]

A. Don't have a backup spell book. If your DM wants to turn your character into a commoner, he can do it any time he likes. Poof! A god takes away your class levels and replaces them with Commoner. /Shrug, pick up a crossbow, and keep playing until your DM decides to stop being a d***.

B. Start a wizard school and publish all of your spells in the school library. Then if you need to make new spell book you just copy from all of the students and staff. Go out of your way to make all spells public knowledge. (There's no actual in-game reason not to, just a gentleman's agreement that all wizards will be short-sighted egotists who don't want to share).

[Necroticplague]

1. In your head. With Iedetic Spellcasting, you prepare of your spells from your own memory, no spellbook needed.
2.On your body. There are rules for tattooing spells onto yourself. There's a stark limit on what you can store, but its enough to have a few emergency spells ready.
3.Hoard Gullet. Extending it gets you 24 hours at level 12. Or, you could just realize you only need to have it be safe while you're asleep (as you can keep it safe personally while you're awake), and just have it last you through the night from level 8 or 10.
4.Keep a blank book and a bunch of scrolls on hand. Individually, these are likely to escape DM notice, but if your main book gets stolen, you can use the scrolls to write spells in your book.
5.Shrink item+permanency+embedding the (now shrunk) under your skin. BOVD actually has some rules for this (though it would mean you'd need to damage yourself to get it, I think ComScoundrel has something similar without damage, but not as secure).
6.Be a lich, and use your spellbook as a phylactery. At any time, just off yourself, and now you're back at your spellbook location. And to boot, it means your spellbook becomes a very resilient minor artifact, too.

[Deophaun]

Permanent image of your spell book. Spell books everywhere.

[Peat]

In a very secure library with a cover reading "Anecdotes of the Great Accountants no. 3" :smallbiggrin:

[sleepyphoenixx]

Get a Possum Pouch (CAdv, 1800gp). It's basically a false stomach that you can store small items in (shrunken spellbook & backup component pouch, for example). Since it takes a DC 30 search check to find very few adversaries even have a chance of discovering it. Cast Magic Aura on it to protect against Detect Magic and similar detection methods.

You can also get a nonmagical hidden pocket or hollow boot heel, lined with lead (CScoundrel). Those can get a search DC of up to 35, are very cheap (11-100gp) and don't require Magic Aura, but you're screwed if the DM decides to steal your clothes/shoes.

If you're allowed to make backup spellbooks with Secret Page get them all. Two hollow boot heels, 1-2 secret pockets and a possum pouch, all with their own backup book. Chances are whoever is searching you will miss at least one.

[magicalmagicman]

Permanent image of your spell book. Spell books everywhere.

This is actually brilliant. Your spellbook is an object, so no reason you can't create a permanent image of one anytime, anywhere, even if your spellbook is destroyed.

Adding possum pouch to 1st post.

[atemu1234]

My last wizard had his hidden in a solid iron ball in the center of a Genesis'd fast time demiplane, with a maze of solid adamantine around it. No more epic level handbook for me.

[NNescio]

Shrink Item the spellbook, then hide it in an Alchemical Tooth (Complete Adventurer, 300 gp).

[atemu1234]

Shrink Item the spellbook, then hide it in an Alchemical Tooth (Complete Adventurer, 300 gp).

But then, doesn't Disjunction lead to broken jaws?

[NNescio]

But then, doesn't Disjunction lead to broken jaws?

MDJ is a burst spell, so it'll require LoE, which is blocked by your head, assuming you don't open your mouth more than one square foot wide.

Granted, you'll have other problems to worry about, unless you're willing to abuse Wish.

[Tarvus]

Wouldn't a spellbook count as magical? I mean read magic is used depending on the use, so I'm not sure. If they are magical, shrink item doesn't work. Something to keep in mind.

If the tattoo method is used, prioritize spells that will get you out of trouble/get your spellbook back. Teleport etc. Tippy has a nice list somewhere I based mine on. Similarly, Spell Mastery can help negate some of the lost.You might also be able to secret page them to hide their nature but unsure, AFB atm.

Instant Summons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/instantSummons.htm) also makes retrieval from wherever it is easier. Secret Chest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm) can be used to keep it hidden for 59 days at a time, though the little focus must be hidden and it has an expensive start up cost (5k+50 gp). Before 60 days theres no loss chance, but a particularly cunning DM might point out that because expeditions can be mounted to find lost items, they can find the chest as well.

Gloves of storing can also hide it. Though Gloves of the Master Strategist gives a free true strike and doesn't have a ridiculous price.

Also remember any thing you can do to hide it on your person can also work on your familiar. Spell sharing is nice.

[magicalmagicman]

Lot of great methods being mentioned here.

My favorite method right now is permanent image. You make a permanent image of a spell book, and send it 400ft deep underground. Couple days later, you either make a permanent image of the same spell book, or a permanent image of the 1st permanent image, and send that deep underground too. Keep doing this and now you got a crazy amount of backup spell books you can retrieve with a thought as long as you're within 400ft of it, or alternatively, create a new permanent image of one of those spell books right then and there without needing to retrieve it. Congrats, now as long as you have 100gp of powdered jade, you can recreate your spell book at will.

Alternatively, you can just scry one of your permanent images, so you don't need the powdered jade.

A good idea might be once you create a permanent image, send it deep underground 200ft, and keep concentrating on it so it stays directly underneath you 24/7. Talk about a spellbook that can't be stolen or destroyed. In fact you might not even need to send it underground since no one can interact with the image physically. You can only turn the pages or move it around by concentrating.

[LentilNinja]

In the Fighter's armor. It may be a bit sweaty and smell weird after a couple encounters but it'd still work out nicely. :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Shrink Item on your spellbook... (http://i.imgur.com/XzFqYLO.gif)

I mean, it's a classic for a reason.

[Inevitability]

1. Take yourself and a mindraped human (with lots of class levels and power-increasing templates, just in case) for a nice trip to the Etheral Plane.

2. Create a Timeless Dead Magic demiplane.

3. Hand the human your spellbook and command him to guard it with his life.

4. Arrange for yourself to be Wished out of there. Oops, that really should have been step one.

5. Be Wished out of the demiplane.

Now you are free, the human is staying on the plane forever with your spellbook, and if you need it you can just Wish him to you and repeat the procedure.

[Psyren]

2.On your body. There are rules for tattooing spells onto yourself. There's a stark limit on what you can store, but its enough to have a few emergency spells ready.

Very much this. If you're in a campaign where a "backup spell book" is at all a serious concern, use these rules!

[Darrin]

Permanent image of your spell book. Spell books everywhere.

Would a programmed image be better? You could trigger it with something like, "appears whenever I have not touched my spellbook within 24 hours".

I'm not sure it can be cast on a person or object, though... I think the area of effect is limited to wherever you initially cast the spell. Even if it could be cast on yourself, it could be dispelled. And the duration is too short, needs to be long enough to study your spells.

[ninjamaster1991]

In Your Mind II: Electric Boogaloo'
1) Put ranks in Autohypnosis. 1/2 rank will let you make checks, but you may as well put more ranks in it - it's more useful than Profession (Underwater Basketweaver), and you have more than enough skill points to spare.
2) Memorize your spellbook, page by page. It's a DC 15 check, so taking 20 lets anyone with a non-negative Wisdom SCORE (not modifier) can beat it automatically.
3) ???
4) Profit! Whenever you lose your spellbook, just make Autohypnosis checks and re-scribe your spellbook.

If your DM lets you prepare your spells straight from memory, it'd be absolutely broken - but it's worth a shot anyway.

[Psyren]

In Your Mind II: Electric Boogaloo'
1) Put ranks in Autohypnosis. 1/2 rank will let you make checks, but you may as well put more ranks in it - it's more useful than Profession (Underwater Basketweaver), and you have more than enough skill points to spare.
2) Memorize your spellbook, page by page. It's a DC 15 check, so taking 20 lets anyone with a non-negative Wisdom SCORE (not modifier) can beat it automatically.
3) ???
4) Profit! Whenever you lose your spellbook, just make Autohypnosis checks and re-scribe your spellbook.

If your DM lets you prepare your spells straight from memory, it'd be absolutely broken - but it's worth a shot anyway.

This won't work - Autohypnosis explicitly cannot memorize magical or exotic writing.

[Inevitability]

This won't work - Autohypnosis explicitly cannot memorize magical or exotic writing.

Is a spellbook any of those things? It is not 'magical' in the strict sense of the word. Spellbooks do not ping Detect Magic, nor would a Disjunction or Antimagic Field affect them.

'Exotic' is defined nowhere in the rules, so I guess it would be DM dependent where to draw the line.

[ninjamaster1991]

This won't work - Autohypnosis explicitly cannot memorize magical or exotic writing.

'Magical' writing is generally considered to be things like scrolls and those weird ink-moves-around-as-you-look-at-them tomes. A spellbook is mundane, just complex enough most people can't figure it out.
And it doesn't ban you from exotic writing, it prohibits 'similarly exotic scripts', which I assume is to prevent trying to memorize psionic writing, Dark Speech, or other technically nonmagical texts.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Seeing how spellbooks are described as "arcane magical writings" that argument is more wishful thinking than reality. Arcane Magical Writings (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings)

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another’s spellbook or on a scroll),...

[magicalmagicman]

I'm gonna have to agree with the others on the autohypnosis. Damn, it was too good to be true.

As for programmed image, it lasts only 1round/level once triggered. Doubt you can memorize even 1 spell with that.

[Psyren]

Seeing how spellbooks are described as "arcane magical writings" that argument is more wishful thinking than reality. Arcane Magical Writings (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings)

I was going to quote this but I went out to dinner, so thanks for that.

[Zanos]

There's an ACF feature in one of the dragon magazines called Eidetic Wizard(I think) that gives up your familiar and scribe scroll in exchange for being able to memorize your spellbook, you use incense instead of ink to add new spells to your headspells. If you're playing with a DM that likes to mess with your spellbooks, I highly recommend it.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's an ACF feature in one of the dragon magazines called Eidetic Wizard(I think) that gives up your familiar and scribe scroll in exchange for being able to memorize your spellbook, you use incense instead of ink to add new spells to your headspells. If you're playing with a DM that likes to mess with your spellbooks, I highly recommend it.

It has the drawback that you'll never get the cheaper spellscribing that a Blessed Book offers though, so you'll probably always have less spells than a non-eidetic wizard, in addition to losing your familiar (or anything you could have traded it for) and bonus feat.

And if your DM is zealous enough to make normal, reasonable precautions insufficient you very likely have an OOC problem that won't be solved by a player vs DM arms race.

[magicalmagicman]

Eidetic keeps being suggested to me but unfortunately my DMs hate dragon magazine, which is why I look at backup or recovery options.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Eidetic keeps being suggested to me but unfortunately my DMs hate dragon magazine, which is why I look at backup or recovery options.

How likely is this to come up in your game? Because after a certain point losing your spellbook despite your paranoid precautions can't come off as anything but horribly contrieved.
At that point it's probably time to take the issue up with your DM ooc instead of trying ever more elaborate schemes, because in the end the DM can get around anything if he doesn't care about his world making sense.

[Necroticplague]

Here's a possibly cheesy method:

In your dreams;

Step1:put ranks on lucid dreaming. Dip factotum if you want to be able to get full ranks, pick up feat that lets you pay for cross-class skills at 1:1 if you want to lower the cost.
2: while you're sleeping, use lucid dreaming to recognize that you are doing so.
3: use lucid dreaming ability to create architecture to create a library full of spellbooks, containing a variety of spells.
4: rest for 8 hours within the dream, then prep spells from this library. Time on the reign of dreams is 10 times as fast as the material, so you have enough.
5:wake up, with your spells now prepared, no spellbook needed.

[magicalmagicman]

How likely is this to come up in your game? Because after a certain point losing your spellbook despite your paranoid precautions can't come off as anything but horribly contrieved.
At that point it's probably time to take the issue up with your DM ooc instead of trying ever more elaborate schemes, because in the end the DM can get around anything if he doesn't care about his world making sense.

It doesn't happen often, but he does expect you to be able to recover from one. i.e. entire party is captured and escape scenarios, which includes erase spell spammage on your tattooed body during captivity.

Lucid Dreaming is 3.0, but due to the absence of lucid dreaming in the update booklet, I'm sure it's legal in 3.5. It's still a bit grey that you can create spellbooks under the "change one aspect" of your dream.

[Necroticplague]

Lucid Dreaming is 3.0, but due to the absence of lucid dreaming in the update booklet, I'm sure it's legal in 3.5. It's still a bit grey that you can create spellbooks under the "change one aspect" of your dream.

EH, that's not really the grey part, since it is innocuous (a library full of books doesn't harm anyone), and it is a part of the dream. The more grey part is whether you'd wake up with the spells prepped. Under the planes time trait, it says "But the nature of the plane makes time spent on the plane less real. No matter what visitors experience, only memories remain when they leave Dream. Spells cannot truly be cast or learned, nor items won or lost, nor experience points earned when dreaming."I'm not sure if preparing a spell would count as learning it, or whether you would consider it a memory. Of course; depending on your level, you can get around even that restriction: once your dream-self gathers up a spellbook, you can try Plane Shifting back to whatever plane you are on in order to give it to yourself.