Can secret page do these stuff?

[gogogome]

A player I'm DMing claims secret page can do the following
1. Turn a page of writing into a spell and completely negate the scribing costs. Both gp and time.
2. Make spells you don't know. There is no craft check involved so the spell does everything for you, so you don't need to know the spell, just need to know that it exists.

So basically, he can write a book completely filled with "This is a sentence. This is a sentence. This is a sentence." and turn it into a spell book by casting an insane number of secret pages on it, and gain access to every spell in the game through that one spell, without ever buying a scroll.

[Yahzi]

A player I'm DMing claims secret page can do the following
Of course not. Sure, the spell says you can change a page to look like another spell, but it never said it would teach you the spell. You can't cast secret page and say, "Turn the text into the most awesomest poetry ever, so great it will make gods weep." Unless of course you can write such poetry yourself.

The only text you can create with Secret Page is text you already know. That is the clear intent of the spell: you can write something over the top of something else. But you can't use the spell to create information; only to disguise it. If the designers had intended it to be a way to learn spells, they would have said so. After all, they gave us Read Magic which is expressly described as assisting in learning spells (although for the life of me I don't understand how it helps).

[gogogome]

Of course not. Sure, the spell says you can change a page to look like another spell, but it never said it would teach you the spell. You can't cast secret page and say, "Turn the text into the most awesomest poetry ever, so great it will make gods weep." Unless of course you can write such poetry yourself.

Thanks for using that word :D.

But how about using secret page to get around the gp cost and time requirement?

[kaffalidjmah]

Well...if you have a scroll of a spell you don't know, you can alter the text of something on the spellbook to be like the scroll. I don't know if on the spellbook you just need to use special ink always or not, but hey, use magic boccob book and done

EDIT: for the time, if you copy it with a spell that is just one standard action is for sure faster than days of study for research

[Deophaun]

But how about using secret page to get around the gp cost and time requirement?
Time requirement, sure. GP cost? Somewhat. Let's look at the text of the spell:

Secret page alters the contents of a page so that they appear to be something entirely different. The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell. Explosive runes or sepia snake sigil can be cast upon the secret page.
Note how specific the wording is: You can turn the text of one spell into the text for another spell. We aren't looking at turning the first few pages of the phonebook into scorching ray here. We're turning one page of magic missile into one page of scorching ray.

But just one page. Scorching ray still needs two:

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook

Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook.
Time

The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level.
Space in the Spellbook

A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages.
Materials and Costs

Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page.
So it's a great spell for readjusting your traveling spellbook. However, you aren't going to get more than twice what you had.

Edit: BTW, if this bugs you, just say "no."

[gogogome]

Edit: BTW, if this bugs you, just say "no."

Well, that will make me a bad DM :smalltongue:.

The text does say changing 1 spell into a different spell, but I agree with the player that it's just an example. No reason why you can't change a text of a spell into a poem, and vice versa.

[sleepyphoenixx]

As others have said, you can't write a spell you don't already know. Since wizards spells known are the spells written in your spellbook you can only save on scribing costs if you make a duplicate.

I'd even say it's the only way to realistically make a duplicate/backup spellbook in most campaigns.

You'd need 100 casts to duplicate even the most basic spellbook. Even a level 20 wizard with Int 30 only gets 39 spells of 3rd level and above per day, and that's if he fills all available slots with them, so you'd need at least 3 days.
But that's still a lot faster than the normal way, which takes 12 hours/spell if you copy an already existing book that is yours.

How many campaigns regularly have that kind of downtime? And even if they do you probably have something better to do than copy your spellbook(s) "just in case".
The downside is that Secret Page can be dispelled, but your backup spellbook should never be in a situation where it's a target of dispel.

[atemu1234]

No. You can't just duplicate a spell and hope to use that to learn it. I may allow it as a way to create a duplicate spell book (if you have access to spell slots for it), but I wouldn't let them just get new spells this way.

[Trasilor]

A player I'm DMing claims secret page can do the following
1. Turn a page of writing into a spell and completely negate the scribing costs. Both gp and time.
2. Make spells you don't know. There is no craft check involved so the spell does everything for you, so you don't need to know the spell, just need to know that it exists.

So basically, he can write a book completely filled with "This is a sentence. This is a sentence. This is a sentence." and turn it into a spell book by casting an insane number of secret pages on it, and gain access to every spell in the game through that one spell, without ever buying a scroll.

No. The spell specifically states:


The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell.

That implies that you change the text of a spell in your spellbook to show the text of another spell. First, this does nothing to change the original cost to scribe a spell in a spell book (100 gp per page) nor the the amount of pages a spell takes up (1 page per spell level, min 1 page). A wizard could change the spells in their spellbook into what they think another spell would look like, but it would not function as it is a fake.

At this point it is important to point out how arcane writing works:


To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in her own way. Another person’s magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until she takes time to study and decipher it.

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another’s spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers a magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

Once a character deciphers a particular magical writing, she does not need to decipher it again. Deciphering a magical writing allows the reader to identify the spell and gives some idea of its effects (as explained in the spell description). If the magical writing was a scroll and the reader can cast arcane spells, she can attempt to use the scroll.

So, while another wizard (or anyone with access to read magic) would be able to 'decipher' the spell, no one would be able to learn it - as it is not a real spell. Essentially, the spellcraft check to prepare/learn the spell will always fail.