Change requirement of persist spells to spells that can be permanencyed

[With a box]

I think that it is more sane requirement then "personal or fixed range".
It would nurf persist spell.
Would I have problem if I lower its adjustment to +4?

[atemu1234]

I don't honestly think Persistent Spell is actually broken, if used as a normal metamagic feat. If anything, what you're doing is actually making it far more powerful.

What makes it broken is it's just fuel for the entire "free metamagic" fire. Incantatrix can use it for free. That makes incantatrix broken, not the feat.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A good part of the spells you can make permanent is basically stuff you don't want to waste spell slots on. Most of the rest wouldn't be worth casting at +4 slots.

Persistent Spell is not the problem. The problem is all the metamagic cost replacers that let you persist spells basically for free.

[Svata]

There really is no need. The only use if Persist Spell is DMM:Persist, and even then, it takes 3 feats or choosing certain domains (thereby losing the opportunity to have other domains). Even if they do buid for DMM:Persist, and optimize their domain choices for it, it won't get out of hand if you don't let nightsticks stack. They'll be able to persist two, maybe three spells a day, if they invest in Cha and take Extra Turning (but with cleric feats being how they are, its a pretty great feat if you're going a DMM route. Or, hell, even a devotion-feats-out-the-wazoo build) which is another opportunity cost, as usually Turn Undead isn't very good, so clerics don't need much Cha.


Oh yeah, forgot about Incantrix. Persistent Shapechange is pretty great, I'll give you that one, but remember, Greater Dispel Magic works on it just as well as any other spell. Also, reaving dispel. Never make a spellcasting villain with ninths without it. It literally makes casters buffing (only) themselves the worst idea.

[Chronos]

Oh yeah, forgot about Incantrix. Persistent Shapechange is pretty great, I'll give you that one, but remember, Greater Dispel Magic works on it just as well as any other spell.
Maybe, maybe not. When you're casting a whole bunch of your spells at once, like a persistomancer is likely to, it becomes worthwhile to invest in a lot of short-duration CL boosters. It's not too hard to get all of your persisted spells up to a CL where Greater Dispel Magic won't even have a chance of touching them, even if your normal spells over the course of the day aren't that high.

[Deophaun]

Maybe, maybe not. When you're casting a whole bunch of your spells at once, like a persistomancer is likely to, it becomes worthwhile to invest in a lot of short-duration CL boosters. It's not too hard to get all of your persisted spells up to a CL where Greater Dispel Magic won't even have a chance of touching them, even if your normal spells over the course of the day aren't that high.
Yup. When up against a persistomancer, you pretty much need an AMF. Although dweomer vortex works great. It's just really obscure.

[NNescio]

Persistent Spell Clericzilla is fine as long as he doesn't get to (ab)use nightsticks.

Incantatrix is another story.

[Necroticplague]

Don't forget spelldancers can persist all there spells out of combat, given time. Need fatigue immunity to do more than one, but there are spells (which you can persist) that give you that.

[Flickerdart]

The best nerf for Persist and other super-powerful metamagic without straight-up banning Incantatrix is to limit added metamagic to the level you can normally cast before reduction. So sure, you can persist your Displacement as a 3rd level spell, but you have to be able to cast 9th level spells first.