Crusader/Martial Manevuer Question

[Vander Nars]

Iv search and i cant find an answer for this but my question is if I have multi base attacks like you get at +6/+1 can i still use a strike manevuer like Vanguard Strike and make a full attack? Or do i lose my second base attack when using a strike manevuer?

[kaffalidjmah]

Using strike maneuver require you some kind of action, like a standard or a full round. If you expend you standard action you can't attack later, only move, because you will have only a move action. Vanguard strike is a standard action maneuver, so no full attack, just a vanguard strike (that deal the standard amount of damage) and a move action

[Vander Nars]

Ok i had a feeling thats how it worked, this seems ok at low levels but once u get like 4 total attacks it seems like using abilitys would nerf the **** out of your damage, unless the higher level manevuers are extremely strong to justife the lost of 3 or 4 extra base attacks.

[TheIronGolem]

Well, remember that those extra iterative attacks are progressively less likely to hit your target; missed attacks deal no damage. There's also the fact that martial maneuvers frequently have rider effects like ignoring DR (which you see a lot of at high levels). And yes, higher-level maneuvers do more bonus damage.

In the end, a martial adept still doesn't quite match the Barbarian or Fighter in terms of potential for Big Damage NumbersTM, but they're way more versatile.

[Red Fel]

Ok i had a feeling thats how it worked, this seems ok at low levels but once u get like 4 total attacks it seems like using abilitys would nerf the **** out of your damage, unless the higher level manevuers are extremely strong to justife the lost of 3 or 4 extra base attacks.

Here's the thing you have to remember. If you are using a single attack, at your highest BAB modifier (one attack at +6 BAB, for example), that's a standard action. That means that you can still perform a move action, as well as a swift or immediate action, on your turn. You can also perform a free action.

If you're performing multiple attacks due to a high BAB (so one at +6 and one at +1, for example), you are using your full attack action. When you use a full attack action, you can make a five-foot step that turn, as well as a swift or immediate action and free actions, but may take no other actions unless you have a special ability that allows it.

So, for example, if you make a single attack on your turn, you can use any maneuvers that require a move, swift, or immediate action to initiate. If you make a full attack, however, you may only use maneuvers that require a swift or immediate action, as your move action has been subsumed into the full attack.

Hence why boosts and counters are so valuable; they typically don't require your standard or move action, and can therefore be used even when you make a full attack.

Make sense?

[Vander Nars]

Ty red that help break it down for me to understand and ty to everyone for the replies iv searched for days for this info