Legendary Samurai

[LoyalPaladin]

Hello again playgrounders!

I am going to soon be hosting a 3.5 Oriental Adventures campaign and need to design a legendary warrior from times long ago. Some of it can just be done with fluff, but my players are a big fan of shock and awe in a campaign. So while this is not a gestalt campaign, I'd like to make him a gestalt Samurai (OA)/Ninja (CA) mix. He will sort of be the father of both schoolings.

I could just stick 20 in Samurai and 20 in Ninja... but that would be no fun! Is there any good way to mix the two classes?

List of things I'd like to achieve:
Wear armor while keeping ninja AC bonus and abilities (not mandatory)
Be undetectable via magic.
Have a powerful melee presence.
Immortality (Is that even possible? I could just fluff it.)

Books/Stat Restrictions:
We use HeroForge so pretty much all is game for feats and classes.
34 point buy
Mandatory Human race
Lawful Neutral

Extra note:
Magic items are welcome too. Like I stated previously, he is supposed to be CRAZY powerful. If he has cool magic items he could pass on to players or even just have to make him better that is awesome. My players will dig this kind of thing.

[BWR]

Are the PCs going to go up against him in combat?
If not, there really isn't any reason not to just fluff him. He's awesome, does stuff they can't, leave it at that.

[LoyalPaladin]

Are the PCs going to go up against him in combat?
If not, there really isn't any reason not to just fluff him. He's awesome, does stuff they can't, leave it at that.
They wont fight him ever, but he'd still be a boat load of fun to put together and tell them about after they encounter him. Like I said, they love shock and awe.

[sideswipe]

i wouldn't use gestalt as the players may become upset they they are not allowed gestalt,

the wedded to history feat gives immortality

i would just go samurai 20,
if you take kensai you can use that, feats and other magic items to emulate almost all of ninja in some way.
if you take iaijitsu master you get more than the bonus damage that ninja would give, fully emulating the class. with resources to spare.

i would personally go samurai 5/ kensai 5 (complete warrior)/ iaijitsu master 10
or samurai 5/ kensai 10 (for +10 weapons dirt cheap) /iaijitsu master 5 (enough to gain +(9xCHA + 9d6) to each damage roll :smallwink:)

get some true seeing, put some skill points into acrobatics stuff, enchant armour to not restrict movement as much, whatever you can do with a +10 weapon, and some etherial or miss chance or invisibility item (or all 3)

funny enough, ninja is just about the easiest class to emulate without using spellcasting.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Tome of Battle fits rather nicely with OA stuff. How about swordsage 20? Can wear light armor and gets Wis to AC while doing it. You can take Shadow Hand maneuvers to emulate Ninja stuff and Tiger Claw for melee competency. You can go a step further and make a Master of the Nine build to represent total mastery of his abilities.

[sideswipe]

Tome of Battle fits rather nicely with OA stuff. How about swordsage 20? Can wear light armor and gets Wis to AC while doing it. You can take Shadow Hand maneuvers to emulate Ninja stuff and Tiger Claw for melee competency. You can go a step further and make a Master of the Nine build to represent total mastery of his abilities.

i agree with TOB, its brilliant, another way to say "hi ninja these 3 manoeuvres and 2 stances are your entire class, and i get other things" :smallsmile:
you also get the abilities many more times a day,

and master of nine i really want to play.... but everyone in my group likes melee and im stuck with caster (oh no :smallwink:)

[ExLibrisMortis]

I like these builds (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3563506) for a fast warrior, who can control and also deal damage. For example, you could gestalt the first two builds, and replace the doubled-up levels in warblade with a few dips to grab useful buffs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus): paladin 2, battle dancer 1, monk 1 (wis to AC) etc. depending on what focus you prefer.

[LoyalPaladin]

These are awesome ideas! I am super busy at work right now, but when I get lunch (hopefully) I will look at them more thoroughly!

[ILM]

I recently drafted a Sneak-attack fighter 1/Warblade 9/ Eternal Blade 10 specializing in Diamond Mind maneuvers and especially Diamond Nightmare Blade. He focused on mobility and single, powerful strikes; the Blade Guide was fluffed as the spirit of his ancestors. Seemed very effective but not OMGWTF overpowered (he capped at around 650 damage against one target, 1/encounter - more than enough for a regular table, but way below what we've seen here in the past).

[Yael]

Swordsage into master of nine into legacy champion nets more legend than Link, but ToB stuff tends to overshine other martials.

Another vote into the Wedded to History feat, it is just too good.

Samurai 20 is nice and filled with feats, but Kensai levels do the same as Ancestral Daisho. I will second Swordsage 20.

[sideswipe]

Kensai levels do the same as Ancestral Daisho.

in the same way fabricate does the same as crafting,

ancestral daisho is permanent and takes literally weeks if not months past a +2 weapon, whereas the kensai is 24 hours no matter what.

the addition it makes is that every time the master appears in the campaign he could have a different +10 weapon, for whichever circumstance he is needed for. rather then stuck with an all purpose one. it gives story flexibility.

as a player i would always consider kensai even with the daisho as it means you can adapt your weapon in short periods of time.

[Manly Man]

Honestly, my favorite thing to do for emulating a Samurai is to just go straight Warblade 20, and fluff them to be one. Considering the setting, you could just add proficiency with bastard swords so he can use a katana (which is a discipline weapon for Diamond Mind anyway, I rule initiators to be proficient with all of their disciplines' weapons in my personal games as well).

[Andezzar]

The warblade can already use the katana the way it is supposed to be used - as a two-handed weapon. Only using both the katana and the wakizashi at the same time requires extra training.

[DMVerdandi]

Well, if they will never fight him, why not simply make him into a deity?

Divine rank 5 Demigod
Ninja 20/ Samurai 20
Give him the Salient Divine abilities he would need to be... More badass than usual(ahem, alter reality), and voila.

Make him a regional "kami" of warfare and bushido, and patron of the light and dark classes of bushi (samurai/ninja)

[Blackhawk748]

Am i the only one that noticed that the OP put CW Samurai up not OA? because please fix that as i almost had a heart attack lol

To mimic others Warblade into Kensai should be good for your build, sweet weapon with a bunch of attacks (thank you Iron Heart) as well as being maneuverable, as Steel Wind and its Ilk are only a standard action. Honestly if you are gonna gestalt (and the PCs shouldnt see his sheet so they shouldnt know anyway) you may want to consider making him a Warblade/Kensai//Scout, and netting Invisibility some other way, as moving 30 ft and then using Adamantine Hurricane will be awesome on so many levels.

[sideswipe]

Am i the only one that noticed that the OP put CW Samurai up not OA? because please fix that as i almost had a heart attack lol

To mimic others Warblade into Kensai should be good for your build, sweet weapon with a bunch of attacks (thank you Iron Heart) as well as being maneuverable, as Steel Wind and its Ilk are only a standard action. Honestly if you are gonna gestalt (and the PCs shouldnt see his sheet so they shouldnt know anyway) you may want to consider making him a Warblade/Kensai//Scout, and netting Invisibility some other way, as moving 30 ft and then using Adamantine Hurricane will be awesome on so many levels.

wow well done, i swear that was wrong, and when i originally read it i made sure it said samurai (OA) and ninja (CA). but that must have been just me thinking no one would do that to themselves....

[Blackhawk748]

wow well done, i swear that was wrong, and when i originally read it i made sure it said samurai (OA) and ninja (CW). but that must have been just me thinking no one would do that to themselves....

Minor nitpick, the Ninja is CAdv, Swashbuckler and Hexblade are the only two base classes in CW.
Well technically there is another but im pretty sure thats for NPCs

So to clarify, OP, please for all that is holy dont take the CW Samurai, use the OA one, its just better.

[sideswipe]

Minor nitpick, the Ninja is CAdv, Swashbuckler and Hexblade are the only two base classes in CW.
Well technically there is another but im pretty sure thats for NPCs

So to clarify, OP, please for all that is holy dont take the CW Samurai, use the OA one, its just better.

i swordsaged you with an edit before you posted that. but well done.

[Blackhawk748]

i swordsaged you with an edit before you posted that. but well done.

Bugger lol

@OP: incase you are unaware of why we are saying this, ill tell you. The CW Samurai is bad, like worse than Monk bad, like worse than Truenamer bad. Its so bad it is the only base class i have ever banned from my table, and im a very permissive DM.

[Red Rubber Band]

The Vecna-blooded template will make you immune to divinations.
Dark template will make you harder to detect via mundane senses.

[Manly Man]

Minor nitpick, the Ninja is CAdv, Swashbuckler and Hexblade are the only two base classes in CW.
Well technically there is another but im pretty sure thats for NPCs

So to clarify, OP, please for all that is holy dont take the CW Samurai, use the OA one, its just better.

Or, as others have said, take Warblade or Swordsage instead.

[sideswipe]

Or, as others have said, take Warblade or Swordsage instead.

not everyone likes TOB, or knows how to use it, or has the book, or the book is traditionally the first on a banned list.

we all know that any build for a melee/mundane can be made better by splashing in or instead using TOB. and i do suggest he looks at it, but we are helping him with other alternatives in case of any of the things i have stated

[Urpriest]

Is it possible to combine Master of Nine and Eternal Blade? That would be pretty good at conveying the whole "legendary master of all schools of martial arts" theme.

[Killer Angel]

For the samurai part, you can use for startin point the evergreen Takahashi no Onisan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153726), by ShneekeyTheLost.
He's so epic, that he doesn't need to fight: enemies tremble at his sight!

[Andezzar]

Is it possible to combine Master of Nine and Eternal Blade? That would be pretty good at conveying the whole "legendary master of all schools of martial arts" theme.While it may be possible the OP specified that the character would have to be human. Being an elf is a requirement for the Eternal Blade.

[sideswipe]

While it may be possible the OP specified that the character would have to be human. Being an elf is a requirement for the Eternal Blade.

half elf with human heritage is subtype human and also qualifies for elf only stuff :smallwink:

[Andezzar]

half elf with human heritage is subtype human and also qualifies for elf only stuff :smallwink:The OP specified that the character must be a member of the human race, a half-elf is not, no matter what he qualifies for.

[LoyalPaladin]

These are all great ideas. I tend to shy away from maneuvers, but I'll give it a shot. I think he is better off two handing the katana anyways and forgoing the wakizashi.

Just because I'm not super familiar with a lot of the maneuvers, what makes Diamond Mind so special?

For stats, should I prioritize Str>Con>Wis>Cha>Dex>Int? Or should a character like this be dex based. I guess mixing a Gestalt Samurai/Ninja type character increases MAD.

I dig the wedded to history feat. Anyone else have suggestions?


@OP: incase you are unaware of why we are saying this, ill tell you. The CW Samurai is bad, like worse than Monk bad, like worse than Truenamer bad. Its so bad it is the only base class i have ever banned from my table, and im a very permissive DM.
Oops. I'll amend that. I must've just pulled the wrong book, cuz I know better... my shame knows no bounds. Perhaps I should DMPC a ronin, because my honor has been stained.

[Andezzar]

Just because I'm not super familiar with a lot of the maneuvers, what makes Diamond Mind so special?Replace saves with a Concentration check. Not only will the bonus be higher, you also do not autofail on a 1.


For stats, should I prioritize Str>Con>Wis>Cha>Dex>Int? Or should a character like this be dex based. I guess mixing a Gestalt Samurai/Ninja type character increases MAD.For a warblade CHA is the dumpstat WIS is not really impotant. STR should be primary, DEX and CON are important and you get some use out of INT.

[LoyalPaladin]

Replace saves with a Concentration check. Not only will the bonus be higher, you also do not autofail on a 1.

For a warblade CHA is the dumpstat WIS is not really impotant. STR should be primary, DEX and CON are important and you get some use out of INT.
Awesome. That helps me a lot.

[Svata]

Nothing to contribute, other than to echo the cries for ToB, but if you make him, please, please have a villain refer to him as a "foolish samurai warrior". Please. Bonus points if said villain can Polymorph/Wildshape/anything similar.

[LoyalPaladin]

Nothing to contribute, other than to echo the cries for ToB, but if you make him, please, please have a villain refer to him as a "foolish samurai warrior". Please. Bonus points if said villain can Polymorph/Wildshape/anything similar.
Maybe a black dragon with some sort of devil template that has class levels in sorcerer. I feel like I'm going to be hosting "Crouching Dungeons, Hidden Dragons" but hey, if the players want it...

[Red Fel]

Nothing to contribute, other than to echo the cries for ToB, but if you make him, please, please have a villain refer to him as a "foolish samurai warrior". Please. Bonus points if said villain can Polymorph/Wildshape/anything similar.

And great flaming eyebrows!

... That is all.

[LoyalPaladin]

And great flaming eyebrows!

... That is all.
Should I name the godlike samurai Jack?

[Red Fel]

Should I name the godlike samurai Jack?

Now you're just being absurd. What kind of name for a Samurai is Jack?

No, you should have him a nameless wanderer, who simply takes on the name given to him by the strange natives. That makes far more sense. :smallwink:

[LoyalPaladin]

Now you're just being absurd. What kind of name for a Samurai is Jack?

No, you should have him a nameless wanderer, who simply takes on the name given to him by the strange natives. That makes far more sense. :smallwink:
Hahahaha. Actually, how would we stat Aku. I do happen to neat a BBEG who happens to be a demon king. I was hoping for some sort spellcaster specializing in fire, turning into a dragon sounds thematically great actually.

[Red Fel]

Hahahaha. Actually, how would we stat Aku. I do happen to neat a BBEG who happens to be a demon king. I was hoping for some sort spellcaster specializing in fire, turning into a dragon sounds thematically great actually.

Turns into a dragon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs8Z-oBoEdc), you say?

Actually, if shapechanging were the primary schtick, Druids and the assorted Druid-who-changes-into-stuff PrCs (particularly Master of Many Forms) are an easy go-to.

Otherwise, just pic Wiz or Sorc and grab Shapechange. I think it's safe to say that Aku is a pretty high-level encounter anyhow.

[LoyalPaladin]

Turns into a dragon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs8Z-oBoEdc), you say?
It's going to be one of those days in the playground. Hahaha.


Actually, if shapechanging were the primary schtick, Druids and the assorted Druid-who-changes-into-stuff PrCs (particularly Master of Many Forms) are an easy go-to.

Otherwise, just pic Wiz or Sorc and grab Shapechange. I think it's safe to say that Aku is a pretty high-level encounter anyhow.
They are going 5-18 I believe. So they have time. I like the druid idea. Maybe I'll grab a couple levels in Sorc for fireball or something. Sorc>Druid>Master of Many Forms? This is not my normal group to DM for, but I have DMed for them in the past and I play with some of them. (Woohoo for D&D 3x a week now haha..)

[Red Fel]

They are going 5-18 I believe. So they have time. I like the druid idea. Maybe I'll grab a couple levels in Sorc for fireball or something. Sorc>Druid>Master of Many Forms? This is not my normal group to DM for, but I have DMed for them in the past and I play with some of them. (Woohoo for D&D 3x a week now haha..)

Maybe find a race with a fire-based SLA, and you can lose the Sorc dip altogether? For example, Celadrin can cast Scorching Ray from their eyes, which just screams evil overlord. I would have suggested a Dragonborn, but this is a BBEG we're talking about, so no dice.

Alternatively, Dragonfire Adept is an option, giving you lots of cool abilities, a breath weapon, flight, and lots of neat tricks.

[Svata]

You can always refluff dragonborn as a Tiamat equivalent, just shift the bonii around a bit, or something. Then again, if he's the shapeshifting master of evil, he shouldn't be in service to anyone. Maybe just go whole hog, slap Half-Dragon on him. Its CR less less cripling than LA, (+2 as opposed to +3), and as he's probably your BBEG, he should be CR=Party Level+3 or 4, as boss fights should be fairly tough.

[Andezzar]

A single high CR opponent will probably die quickly because of the action economy. Better make a BBEG with a CR around the party level and add some tough henchmen to get an overall encounter level of party level +3 or +4

[Svata]

Dude. Druid. SNA [X]. cast right before the PCs get there, maybe two or three times, depending.

[LoyalPaladin]

Dude. Druid. SNA [X]. cast right before the PCs get there, maybe two or three times, depending.
I was just planning on whipping out the calculator and multiplying his health... haha. They are playing a no magic group though. So that is a thing to be careful I guess. They wanted it to be hardcore warriors of the east. The world is magic; but they want to be a potion chugging, steel wielding, melee group. Maybe an archer. I've got to be careful not to make it too crazy. But if I kill them, it's their funeral. Literally. They'll be alright.

[Urpriest]

Awesome. That helps me a lot.

Diamond Mind also has a lot of cool maneuvers that do the "one precise, deadly strike" thing, including maneuvers that use your Concentration check for damage, maneuvers that multiply damage of one attack, and those that deliver touch attacks.