Most Damage Possible?

[holygroundj]

Okay, I'm bad at what you would call "the maths" So I'm curious. I have several scenarios.

What is the maximum possible damage you can do in certain number of rounds? The static bits would be one enemy AC 18, but infinite HP (A training dummy in WoW terms). No resistance to any form of damage. Damage can accumulate. You have not surprised the enemy, but they have not acted yet. You cannot be buffed from an outside source.

Scenarios: No Magic items

Level 6 and 20
1 round, 5 rounds.

ALL the magic Items (anything in the DMG/suppliment)

Level 6 and 20
1 round, 5 rounds.

Any variant and feat in the PHB. No houserules, but "commonly" accepted or debated rulings should be okay (i.e. crossbow expert, etc).

Assume everything crits and you roll max damage. I'm talking literally the highest number you can get.

[Demonic Spoon]

Why do we need to assume AC 18 if we're also assuming a crit? Is attack bonus meaningful for this calculation or not?

[GiantOctopodes]

Okay, I'm bad at what you would call "the maths" So I'm curious. I have several scenarios.

What is the maximum possible damage you can do in certain number of rounds? The static bits would be one enemy AC 18, but infinite HP (A training dummy in WoW terms). No resistance to any form of damage. Damage can accumulate. You have not surprised the enemy, but they have not acted yet. You cannot be buffed from an outside source.

Assume everything crits and you roll max damage. I'm talking literally the highest number you can get.

1) Why not include surprising the enemy, if you want the highest damage possible?

2) If everything crits, doesn't the AC no longer matter?

3)I'll save you some time, the Eldritch Knight, Hasted, using two weapons coated with purple worm venom is going to win all categories. 6 attacks per round dealing 12d6 damage with each attack is 432 damage per round using your rules just from the poison alone. The weapon damage, stat damage, and so forth will contribute, sure, but even there they have 6 attacks gaining said stat bonuses, so it will only widen the gap. Action surge is going to be used in just about any nova build, and this one has it built right in.

At level 5, the fighter is the only one who has action surge *and* extra attack, so he'll win with whatever poison your GP limit lets him procure there, at level 20 it's possible someone has a better use for 9 levels than getting a second action surge and an extra attack, but I find it doubtful. Eldritch Knight wins all categories with poisoned melee weapons in your listed conditions, he's already widely recognized as the king of single target damage and you make it so much worse with your arbitrary and unrealistic conditions.

Eh, fine, I'll figure out the rest of the math. 16 damage per attack (1d8 critted, max damage) + 5 for str (I'm not assuming any magic items, but it could be raised to +9 for str with magic items) + 72 for poison is 93 damage per attack total. He gets 4 (base) + 4 (action surge) + 1 (bonus action) + 1 (hasted) in the first two rounds, and 4 + 1 + 1 after that, dealing 930 damage per round for two rounds, then 558 per round thereafter, for a total of 3534 damage over 5 rounds.

Note that magic items can of course increase that figure further, but more importantly, note that the chances of actually dealing this damage figure are 1/(6^456)*(8^76), or 1/(2.9*10^423), and that's assuming all attacks crit in the first place, which has a chance of 1/(20^38), or 1/(2.7*10^49). Overall, the likelihood of this occurring cannot be expressed in words. I would give trivial examples of what is more likely, such as winning the mega millions 3 times in a row, but as that is only 4*10^32, it does not even begin to express it. In fact, you are more likely to win the lottery 45 times in a row than to actually have this occur in any game of D&D in which you are playing, even assuming you have met the criteria. In other words, it's never going to happen. Ever.

[holygroundj]

Why do we need to assume AC 18 if we're also assuming a crit? Is attack bonus meaningful for this calculation or not?

While the attack bonus isn't meaningful per se, I guess I wanted to avoid a situation where the only chance of hitting the creature comes from a crit. So, the attack would have to hit on an 18, but all damage dice are doubled/gain whatever bonus from critting an enemy you want.

I want to avoid having someone with a -1 modifier, but it honestly doesn't matter. Have fun with the mental excercise.

[Myzz]

I'd have to agree with GiantOctopodes on this one, and add that giving everyone auto crits for this makes the maths WAAY easier and at the same time WAAY unrealistic... and minimizes anyone with an expanded crit range (is Champion really the only way to get expanded crit range now?)

[kaoskonfety]

SNIPING - In fact, you are more likely to win the lottery 45 times in a row than to actually have this occur in any game of D&D in which you are playing, even assuming you have met the criteria. In other words, it's never going to happen. Ever.

I'll show you!

*starts rolling dice in an effort to get this done before the heat death of the universe*

Or you know, not...

[Submortimer]

I'll play along.

We'll be using Fighter 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer 16. Agonizing blast, Repelling blast, Action Surge, and quicken spell. Also, hex.

so, at level 20, you're looking at three castings (Regular+Quickened+Action surge) of hexed, 4 beam eldritch blast, aeach dealing 2d10+2d6+5 damage a piece. that's 444 max damage the first round. Following that, max critical damage is 296 damage for the next 4 rounds, and he could technically keep it up for another 2, using 2 sorcery points a round and having 15 to burn.

add that up, that's 1628 damage in 5 rounds, and you jut blasted him 520' away. congrats.

[Tvtyrant]

Assumption: DM does not ban using weapons more than 1 size category higher than you (technically a variant).

Gargantuan Greatsword: 8d6 damage a hit.
Fighter 11/Barbarian 3 (level 14 build). 4 attacks using frenzy, reckless attack cancels out disadvantage for using oversized weapon.

Purple Worm poison on greatsword.

Strength 20.

(8d6+12d6+5)x8=600 damage assuming all crits, average damage, all hits.

Redux, acidentally multiplied the 5. 580 damage.

Chance to hit: 60%
Average damage: 360 348

Damage with action surge: 720 698 in a turn, assuming average hit and average damage per hit but all crits. Without critting 360 180 damage.

If assuming crits and max damage but only 60% hit rate: 588 in a round.

If all hits, all crits, max damage: 980 damage.

[GiantOctopodes]

Assumption: DM does not ban using weapons more than 1 size category higher than you (technically a variant).

Gargantuan Greatsword: 8d6 damage a hit.
Fighter 11/Barbarian 3 (level 14 build). 4 attacks using frenzy, reckless attack cancels out disadvantage for using oversized weapon.

Purple Worm poison on greatsword.

Strength 20.

(8d6+12d6+5)x8=600 damage assuming all crits, average damage, all hits.

Redux, acidentally multiplied the 5. 580 damage.

Chance to hit: 60%
Average damage: 360 348

Damage with action surge: 720 698 in a turn, assuming average hit and average damage per hit but all crits. Without critting 360 180 damage.

If assuming crits and max damage but only 60% hit rate: 588 in a round.

If all hits, all crits, max damage: 980 damage.

Why x8? Even on your action surge, it's 3 x 2 = 6 + 1 (frenzy) = 7 attacks. The Gargantuan Greatsword, which I do indeed find to be exceedingly unlikely to be allowed on a medium sized character, would perform just as well in the Fighter's hands. Haste balances out Frenzy, so the fighter always has the advantage in the number of hits, and if you're allowing gargantuan weapons, I suspect (though cannot confirm as I don't know where you're getting oversized weapon stats) that you're better off using two gargantuan one handed weapons so you can use dual weapon wielder and get an extra attack, raising the total to 5 (at 14) or 6 (at 20) vs the 4 per round your build has beyond the first round.

[Tvtyrant]

DMG 278 for oversized weapons. I was aiming for the most damage at level 14, which is much more likely then level 20. I am also bad at math, so I apologize for any mistakes.

At level 20 yes the Fighter is the better bet, but the difference in damage dice between a big two hander and a big one hander is pretty tremendous (made up for by poison.)

8d6 for a gargantuan greatsword, 4d6 for a gargantuan scimitar.

[Symphony]

I'll play along.

We'll be using Fighter 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer 16. Agonizing blast, Repelling blast, Action Surge, and quicken spell. Also, hex.

so, at level 20, you're looking at three castings (Regular+Quickened+Action surge) of hexed, 4 beam eldritch blast, aeach dealing 2d10+2d6+5 damage a piece. that's 444 max damage the first round. Following that, max critical damage is 296 damage for the next 4 rounds, and he could technically keep it up for another 2, using 2 sorcery points a round and having 15 to burn.

add that up, that's 1628 damage in 5 rounds, and you jut blasted him 520' away. congrats.

While you don't blast the target as far away, you should probably throw in Scorching Ray instead of some of those Eldritch Blasts. Assuming 1 per round, that's (4d6+2d6+5)*9, (4d6+2d6+5)*8, (4d6+2d6+5)*7, and (4d6+2d6+5)*12, all of which are significantly stronger than the (2d10+2d6+5)*4 you would be replacing in each round.

Revising your figures, that would be 665 in the first round, with 476, 435, 394, and 394 in the following 4 rounds for a total of 2364 over 5 rounds, but I'm not sure how far away you could push it. Scorching Ray and Eldritch Blast only have a range of 120', so let's see. Assuming you start 10' away (so no disadvantage), the first round you'd push the target 80' and move 60' from movement, leaving you 30' away after the first round. Every additional round you are pushing it 40' and moving 30' for a difference of 10', so I guess that only leaves you 70' away after the fifth round. So, okay, I guess you could push it 240' in those 5 rounds without it going out of range. The flight from Sorcerer also helps keep up with it.

[Ashrym]

I will argue open hand monk at level 20. Infinite hit points means infinite damage on quivering palm because of the save or die effect. Over 5 rounds that's double infinity with a round to spare for a touch down dance.

[Balor777]

Necromancer with 120 skeletons.Dip their arrows in purple worm poison.I wont calculate damage :smallbiggrin:

[SharkForce]

Necromancer with 120 skeletons.Dip their arrows in purple worm poison.I wont calculate damage :smallbiggrin:

no, you need to spend a slot on simulacrum (via wish) first. then you *and* your simulacrum each take a slightly lower number of skeletons, and rain down horrific poisony death upon your enemies (and don't forget to make every bow and every arrow also magical, you get as many magic items as you want after all).

[GiantOctopodes]

DMG 278 for oversized weapons. I was aiming for the most damage at level 14, which is much more likely then level 20. I am also bad at math, so I apologize for any mistakes.

At level 20 yes the Fighter is the better bet, but the difference in damage dice between a big two hander and a big one hander is pretty tremendous (made up for by poison.)

8d6 for a gargantuan greatsword, 4d6 for a gargantuan scimitar.

At 14, Fighter has haste, so hasted eldritch knight has 4 attacks with the greatsword, or identical to the barbarian, while a better choice would be to use a glaive, which would do 4d10 (8d10 on the auto crits vs 16d6 is a loss of 16 damage per attack, or 64 total damage, but you get one extra attack at 152 damage). The EK doesn't get haste until 13, so the barbarian / EK combo could in theory do better than a straight fighter at 16, due to rage bonuses and being able to use the heftier weapon and not lose out on any attacks. However, at 17 the fighter gets a second action surge, and once again takes top spot, so unless optimizing for level 16 and only level 16, straight fighter is still the better choice

[GiantOctopodes]

I'll play along.

We'll be using Fighter 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer 16. Agonizing blast, Repelling blast, Action Surge, and quicken spell. Also, hex.

so, at level 20, you're looking at three castings (Regular+Quickened+Action surge) of hexed, 4 beam eldritch blast, aeach dealing 2d10+2d6+5 damage a piece. that's 444 max damage the first round. Following that, max critical damage is 296 damage for the next 4 rounds, and he could technically keep it up for another 2, using 2 sorcery points a round and having 15 to burn.

add that up, that's 1628 damage in 5 rounds, and you jut blasted him 520' away. congrats.

While he doesn't push them any further away, I'll point out that a fighter using the aforementioned tactics and a longbow can deal the previously indicated damage figure (more than twice what you stated), add another 380 to it (for sharpshooter) and do it to characters *starting* up to 600 feet away without penalty. Meanwhile, your warlock pushes them out of his own range when they cross the 300 foot threshold.

[Aramis Rhett]

I also suck at "the maths" and would love it if someone would check on a level 20 half orc barbarian berzerker, in rage, using frenzy, GWF + greatsword/axe, with an assumed max str of 24? And any modifiers you can think of, i.e. poisons, magic weapons, spell buffs, anything along those lines.
Thank you kind patrons of the playground.

Edit: also, please factor all the bonus die from brutal critical, both from race and class.

[Wolfsraine]

I'll play along.

We'll be using Fighter 2/Warlock 2/Sorcerer 16. Agonizing blast, Repelling blast, Action Surge, and quicken spell. Also, hex.

so, at level 20, you're looking at three castings (Regular+Quickened+Action surge) of hexed, 4 beam eldritch blast, aeach dealing 2d10+2d6+5 damage a piece. that's 444 max damage the first round. Following that, max critical damage is 296 damage for the next 4 rounds, and he could technically keep it up for another 2, using 2 sorcery points a round and having 15 to burn.

add that up, that's 1628 damage in 5 rounds, and you jut blasted him 520' away. congrats.

Can't you technically blast them upwards with eldritch blast and repelling blast? Up can be a straight line away from you... 52d6 fall damage on the way down =P

[Aramis Rhett]

Will give it a go myself.
Barbarian Berserker
Half-Orc
24str
2 base attacks (add one with frenzy)
Greataxe 1d12
Crit for 2d12 + 3d12 from brutal critical from class +1d12 from brutal critical from race
Multiply x3 for a full round of attacks (for weapon damage only)
Total = 216 from the Greataxe
Add 7 x 3 for str mod
Add 4 x 3 for rage damage
New Total = 249 with str and rage damage
That's 1245 over 5 rounds with ONLY natural ability and a starting weapon.
Add GWF damage: 10x3/round x 5rounds = 450
New Total = 1695 with GWF
+3 Weapon: 3x3/round x 5 rounds = 45
New Total = 1740 with +3 weapon
Standard Poison from PHB adds 120 over 5 rounds
New Total = 1860
Impressive figures for a single class with only info from PHB, and not having to blow 2 major abilities (Action Surge). Very solid sustained damage, even if frenzy were dropped.

Using figures GiantOctopedes used for purple worm poison (12d6 per attack) and substituting the standard poison, the new total = 1740 + 1080 (purple worm) = 2820

Anyone willing to go over my numbers is more than welcome to do so.

Someone else take over and do purple worm poison (since I do not know its damage) and spell buffs (assume scroll of haste if possible), as I am AFB.

[Daehron]

wild mage sorcerer, twinned scorching rays, blahdy bladhy math stuff, wild magic surge that triggers additional damage... like three 4d10 lightning bolts on top of whatever the blahdy blahdy blah blah math comes to.

btw, that just happened tonight...

dwarven wild mage sorcerer shoots out 3 magic missiles, one each at three goblins. Wild magic surge. The magic missiles have 4d10 lightning bolt trails...

Never seen a deader trio of goblins.

Ouchie.

[Ashrym]

wild mage sorcerer, twinned scorching rays, blahdy bladhy math stuff, wild magic surge that triggers additional damage... like three 4d10 lightning bolts on top of whatever the blahdy blahdy blah blah math comes to.

btw, that just happened tonight...

dwarven wild mage sorcerer shoots out 3 magic missiles, one each at three goblins. Wild magic surge. The magic missiles have 4d10 lightning bolt trails...

Never seen a deader trio of goblins.

Ouchie.

Scorching ray isn't eligible for twin spell because it targets multiple creatures. This was confirmed by Jeremy Crawford on twitter and available at the sage advice page.

[Aramis Rhett]

1)

Eh, fine, I'll figure out the rest of the math. 16 damage per attack (1d8 critted, max damage) + 5 for str (I'm not assuming any magic items, but it could be raised to +9 for str with magic items) + 72 for poison is 93 damage per attack total. He gets 4 (base) + 4 (action surge) + 1 (bonus action) + 1 (hasted) in the first two rounds, and 4 + 1 + 1 after that, dealing 930 damage per round for two rounds, then 558 per round thereafter, for a total of 3534 damage over 5 rounds.

Try computing a level 20 Half-Orc Barbarian berserker, wielding Harizawn (from HotDQ), with 24 str, purple worm poison, rage + frenzy, haste, and GWF. Just edges out the EK. (Assuming scroll Haste doesn't require conc)
My mathing put me at 3820 for 5 rounds.

[GiantOctopodes]

Will give it a go myself.
Barbarian Berserker
Half-Orc
24str
2 base attacks (add one with frenzy)
Greataxe 1d12
Crit for 2d12 + 3d12 from brutal critical from class +1d12 from brutal critical from race
Multiply x3 for a full round of attacks (for weapon damage only)
Total = 216 from the Greataxe
Add 7 x 3 for str mod
Add 4 x 3 for rage damage
New Total = 249 with str and rage damage
That's 1245 over 5 rounds with ONLY natural ability and a starting weapon.
Add GWF damage: 10x3/round x 5rounds = 450
New Total = 1695 with GWF
+3 Weapon: 3x3/round x 5 rounds = 45
New Total = 1740 with +3 weapon
Standard Poison from PHB adds 120 over 5 rounds
New Total = 1860
Impressive figures for a single class with only info from PHB, and not having to blow 2 major abilities (Action Surge). Very solid sustained damage, even if frenzy were dropped.

Using figures GiantOctopedes used for purple worm poison (12d6 per attack) and substituting the standard poison, the new total = 1740 + 1080 (purple worm) = 2820

Anyone willing to go over my numbers is more than welcome to do so.

Someone else take over and do purple worm poison (since I do not know its damage) and spell buffs (assume scroll of haste if possible), as I am AFB.

GWF should be 150 in your example, not 450.

Please note that haste scrolls cast the spell, so you'd have to have it on a spell list to use it at all (requiring wizard / bard / whatever 1, or fighter 3 for the 1st level of Eldritch Knight), and even then it requires an ability check or it doesn't go off unless you are able to cast that level spell normally, and on top of that, it casts the spell in all ways, so it'd still require concentration. Not going to work for your purposes.

But fine, let's buff up the fighter just a smidge. Since I don't believe gargantuan weapons would be allowed, let's be a half orc, use a glaive, and toss in Great Weapon fighting. Fighter deals 1d10 (Glaive) + 1d10 (Crit) + 1d10 (Half Orc Brutal Crit) + 10 (GWF) + 5 (Str) + 12d6 (Poison) = 117 damage per attack. 6 attacks per round normally (4 base + 1 Polearm Master + 1 Haste), 10 on an action surge. 1170 damage per round for the first two rounds, 702 damage per round thereafter, 4446 over 5 rounds.

[Aramis Rhett]

GWF should be 150 in your example, not 450.

Please note that haste scrolls cast the spell, so you'd have to have it on a spell list to use it at all (requiring wizard / bard / whatever 1, or fighter 3 for the 1st level of Eldritch Knight), and even then it requires an ability check or it doesn't go off unless you are able to cast that level spell normally, and on top of that, it casts the spell in all ways, so it'd still require concentration. Not going to work for your purposes.

But fine, let's buff up the fighter just a smidge. Since I don't believe gargantuan weapons would be allowed, let's be a half orc, use a glaive, and toss in Great Weapon fighting. Fighter deals 1d10 (Glaive) + 1d10 (Crit) + 1d10 (Half Orc Brutal Crit) + 10 (GWF) + 5 (Str) + 12d6 (Poison) = 117 damage per attack. 6 attacks per round normally (4 base + 1 Polearm Master + 1 Haste), 10 on an action surge. 1170 damage per round for the first two rounds, 702 damage per round thereafter, 4446 over 5 rounds.

I did mention math is not my strong suit lol. Sucks about haste though :(
Even so, not bad for it's own native abilities without magical augmentation. Still doesn't top over the EK, but still very respectable.
Edit: By saying native abilities, I mean it is the only class without the ability in a subclass to cast anything of benefit in combat in the ways of arcane or divine magic.