[3.P] Worthwhile prestige classes/good dips for a Zweihander Sentinel

[Ninane]

I'm in need of help. Pathfinder is extremely new to me. I was invited to a game that is tonight...about a week ago. I'm completely stumped as to what would be best to strengthen a Zweihander Sentinel. (DM allowed dreamscarred press material since extending the invitation.)

I have personal goals that I want this character to achieve: it is not a leader; it is a follower. As a follower, she'll cede to the will of the group readily (low cha score) but will not act against her desire to protect and serve. I do not want to usurp anyone's niche role in the campaign, since the players are already well entrenched in their roles. ZweiSentinel forms the backbone of the character's build.

Party composition: LG paladin of Asmodeus (tank), NG human Oracle of Lathander (healer/other things oracles do), NG pixie Rogue (sneaky), CG gnome Alchemist (explosions), and N elf Artificer (constructs/artificer stuff).

Allowed material: Dreamscarred press, any 3.0/3.5 (some adjustments made at dm discretion), dragonlance, first party pathfinder material (forms backbone of the game mechanics)

Current stat array: 20 17 16 15 12 9 (cha's probably going to be the 9, nothing else has been assigned)

I will be using the White Dragonspawn Template and probably Human race for the +2 to an abil score.

I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide. Thanks in advance.

[ghanjrho]

Honestly? Straight Zweihander Sentinel is an excellent way to go, especially for someone new to Pathfinder. Out of curiosity, why go White Dragonspawn?

[deuxhero]

If you can (it's still unreleased) sticking Bushi on Zweihander Sentinel is pretty good, just avoid Mithiral Current maneuvers that use a dance check.

If you really needed to multiclass from there, Psion+Awakened Blade combos nicely, though it takes a while to come online (I also think you lack the wisdom needed to qualify)

[ZamielVanWeber]

Out of curiosity, why go White Dragonspawn?

Dragon type, flight, natural weapons, substantial natural armor, a decent early game breath weapon, +2 Dex, and +2 Con (and, of course, the +1 to sorcerer). The template is silly. Only thing close is sea dragonspawn which loses flight for swim but rocks massive stat buffs. No idea how much ZHS likes Wis/Cha though, so white is a safer bet.

[PsyBomb]

What level are you starting at? If you start at 7 or higher, you can arrange to be a pretty good Battle Templar. Focus on Golden Lion and Iron Tortoise, and have fun. Mage Hunter is a decent alternative, as well. I prefer straight ZHS builds, but if you must PrC then those are typically the best ones for Warders.

[Ninane]

First thank you all for your replies so far. These are incredibly helpful.


Out of curiosity, why go White Dragonspawn?

Some googling brought the template to my attention. Free flight without losing racial benefits is what drew me to it over say, Dragonborn of Bahamut. I remembered hearing pounce is helpful to marital classes and only vaguely remember that fly helps. Additionally, the DM allowed people to take a LA+1 template for free even though LA isn't really a thing in PF.

It's super cheesy but I did make sure to clear it by the DM first. I also asked him to ask if the other table members were okay with it; he said it wasn't necessary, if I recall. If they dislike it when I present it, I have no problem going along with somehow removing it.


If you can (it's still unreleased) sticking Bushi on Zweihander Sentinel is pretty good, just avoid Mithiral Current maneuvers that use a dance check.

Are you referring to the Teppou Bushi on the pathfinder srd site? Or a different sort? If it is the Teppou Bushi, I am concerned with a flavor conflict. The character's alignment is NG and I'm not too fussy about an alignment shift, but it feels like the class is locked into something Lawful. Is this a newbie mistake to think so?


What level are you starting at? If you start at 7 or higher, you can arrange to be a pretty good Battle Templar. Focus on Golden Lion and Iron Tortoise, and have fun. Mage Hunter is a decent alternative, as well. I prefer straight ZHS builds, but if you must PrC then those are typically the best ones for Warders.

D'oh...I should have specified in the OP. I'm to level the character to 9. Iron Tortoise requires shield proficiency, so it'd have to be Golden Lion if I did go down that path. - E: Nevermind, forgot about Armament Shield by raw allowing it to be used in place of a shield.

Cleric 3 (2nd level divine)/ Zweihander Sentinel 6 and next level start Battle Templar (since Aegis is one of the cooler parts of the class and it improves at ZweiSent 6)

or

Zweihander Sentinel 6 / Mage Hunter 3

Thank you. These give me something to think about other than a simple straight-Zweihander Sentinel -- which isn't off the table, I just like having options.

A side note: Is there a faster base class dip that gets 2nd level divine spells before 3 levels of Cleric?

[DarkSonic1337]

The Bushi he's reffering to is a class template that will be released in Path of War Expanded, see the thread for details (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373269-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War-Expanded). It does some nice things.

Opens up the mithral current discipline (also in PoW2), a school with support for the Iaido styles (sheathed sword). Some notable maneuvers are the "....wave" maneuvers which allow you to make a melee attack from "close" range, reaching blade stance which gives you +5ft reach on attacks when you draw your weapon, various maneuvers that let you make free trip attempts in addition to your attacks, DISRUPTIVE WAVE! (when targeted by a spell, make a charge attack against the caster before it resolves, and an extra +2 on the forced concentration check cause why not?), and lots of counters that let you attack your opponent in addition to potentially negating attacks.

It also gives you quick draw and mixed combat (in addition to allowing you to threaten squares while your weapon is sheathed)

[deuxhero]

It also combos well with Awakened Blade because it allows you to recover a maneuver easily with little cost, which will trigger Awakened Blade's Hypercognitive Focus which will regain one of your focuses which can be used to Precognitive Defenses.

It won't come online till level 13 mind you, but spamming counters is pretty cool.

edit: Also being a manifester lets you increase your size and pull off the "manifest Vigor while sharing it with your psycrystal, then manifest Share Pain on it" trick (it gives 10 HP per PP which is pretty big), both of which are big boons to a Warder's tanking

[Elricaltovilla]

I don't really see much reason to multiclass with a zweihander sentinel. In Pathfinder, abilities advance based on class level, not character level, so if you multiclass you lose out on progressing all of those juicy class features that you really want. In addition, Path of War is really robust and can be used to heavily customize your Initiator so that you can get the disciplines and class features you want without having to trade out.

Do you want to heal? Join the Empyreal Guardians and get access to Silver Crane. Want to Teleport? The Wayward Path has your Veiled Moon maneuvers right here. There will eventually be a Martial Tradition for every discipline, so if your DM is flexible enough, you should be able to convince him to allow you to swap any one class discipline for a different one.

The only time to really consider multiclassing is if there's a Path of War PrC you want. I saw somebody mention Awakened Blade, which is great for multiclassing with Psion or Tactician (although Tacticians don't want to dump CHA). Somebody else mentioned Battle Templar, don't do that. Battle Templar is a trap option for Warders, there aren't any Int based Divine casters in Pathfinder (although since you're using 3.Pf if you have access to the Archivist, go right ahead and do that).

Multiclassing isn't necessary in Pathfinder or Path of War especially, since you have all of these amazingly good class features that build off of each other as you level. Don't multiclass unless there's something specific you really want. This isn't 3.5, you don't need to worry about your class sucking just because its a martial class.

[Jigawatts]

Are you guys playing in an actual Dragonlance campaign, or just using the material from there?

Edit: Nevermind, just reread "Paladin of Asmodeus" and "Oracle of Lathander".

[Sayt]

Out of curiousity, where is the Dragonspawn template from?

[Jigawatts]

Out of curiousity, where is the Dragonspawn template from?
I'm guessing its the Dragonspawn template from the Dragonlance sourcebook Dragons of Krynn.

[Ninane]

Out of curiousity, where is the Dragonspawn template from?

Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pg 222