Is there a good pseudo-monk build?

[CaDzilla]

Is there a good build for a "martial artist" prestige class that isn't a monk?

[Troacctid]

Swordsage. The Setting Sun discipline is full of classic martial arts maneuvers.

[Yael]

Unarmed Swordsage.

Edit: Swordsa... Deyum.

[Necroticplague]

Unarmed Swordsage.

Edit:Darn, double ninja'd. In that case, Psywar is a decent brawler.

[CaDzilla]

Also, no swordsage/ anything in ToB

[nedz]

I'm sure you could turn a Bard into a Martial Artiste :smallamused:

[Yael]

Reaping Mauler?
There's a class in the Ultimate Prestige Classes Vol 1 (iirc) that is named Street Fighter, you do funny stuff when fighting unarmed.

[Asrrin]

Tashalatora monk lets you advance monk class abilities in the psionic class of your choice.

Monk1/ClericX/Sacred Fist will get you a divine monk with spellcasting.

Soulshaper classes can pull off the unarmed schtick pretty well if you fluff soulmelds as Ki or something.

[prufock]

Heck, even a fighter can pull off "monk things" better than a monk, thanks to all the bonus feats.

[SowZ]

City Brawler Barbarian variant is a pretty solid monk and would pound a monk into the ground.

[sideswipe]

honestly any martial mix of classes can be made martial artist.

think of a combat style and focus on it, for example off the top of my head i would take something like
spirit lion wolf totem barbarian (whirling frenzy) 1/ scout 3/ ranger 16 (or ranger 14/fighter 2)
swift hunter feat
there is a weapon from MIC that allows you to two weapon fight with unarmed attacks so two weapon ranger,

versatile unarmed strike is good, improved unarmed strike is a given.

you have pounce, so lots of attacks and precision damage is good.
add knockdown and improved trip and you get more attacks,

you run up, punch/kick/elbow a few times, as well as after every hit you trip them and hit them whilst you are on the ground.

[Troacctid]

Okay. Your archetypal martial artist is agile, lightly equipped, and excels at striking weak points and using the enemy's strength and momentum against him. How about a Rogue? Take tricky combat feats like Elusive Target, Spring Attack, and Sidestep Charge.

[Flickerdart]

Druids make excellent martial artists with the Aspect of Nature or Shapeshift ACFs. This is a huge power nerf from Wildshape, but you don't actually have to look different, so just call it "tiger style" or whatever and start hitting people.

Totemists (and to a lesser extent Incarnates, thanks to Astral Vambraces) can also pass for martial artists. Loads of ways to put the hurt on your fists.

[Necroticplague]

Reaping Mauler?
There's a class in the Ultimate Prestige Classes Vol 1 (iirc) that is named Street Fighter, you do funny stuff when fighting unarmed.

Reaping mauler is horrible, and I'm pretty sure that book is 3rd party.

[Yael]

Reaping mauler is horrible, and I'm pretty sure that book is 3rd party.

Both are correct :)

I don't know why a barbarian fighting unarmed reminded me of Apachai... Just... Deyum.

[Hiro Quester]

Seconding druid. A one level monk dip for Improved unarmed strike and improved grapple. Plus your main casting stat as AC bonus.

Choose the appropriate wildshape and use animal styles of Kung fu. Iterative unarmed strikes, then all your natural weapons as secondary attacks.

Plus you are a tiger with a tiger friend, throwing tigers around.

But if you don't go that way, I hear good things about psychic warrior.

Or consider martial wizard5/monk1/swiftblade5/ Abjurant champion4/swift blade 5

[Flickerdart]

Or consider martial wizard5/monk1/swiftblade5/ Abjurant champion4/swift blade 5
BAB+3 requirement says "no."

[nedz]

Heck, even a fighter can pull off "monk things" better than a monk, thanks to all the bonus feats.
Well you'd want Thug Fighter — for the skill points, though you don't quite have the class skills available which Monk gets.

Druids make excellent martial artists with the Aspect of Nature or Shapeshift ACFs. This is a huge power nerf from Wildshape, but you don't actually have to look different, so just call it "tiger style" or whatever and start hitting people.


Druid — Deadly Hunter (UA, p 58)
Gain
Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger).
Lose
Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions).
Gets you some Monk type stuff

Halfling Druid Substitution Levels add climb, jump, move silently, and hide to skill list (6 skills points per level)
Good for skills, though you are small — until you can Wild Shape or Bite of X of course.

[Optimator]

At low levels a Monk with good stats ain't so bad... :smallwink:

[Flickerdart]

Deadly Hunter is terrible - what you gain is in no way worth losing Wildshape for, especially since you can trade that very Wildshape for better martial arts-like techniques and just dip a monk level or buy a belt.


At low levels a Monk with good stats ain't so bad... :smallwink:
Low HP at a level where you die a lot, low AC at a level where AC still very much matters, low damage output when damage-boosting items haven't started appearing yet...nope, Monk's still crap.

[Red Fel]

Well, let's be clear here: What is it that Monks get? Unarmed Strike: Well, IUS is your intro to unarmed strike. Grab a Necklace of Natural Weapons or Fanged Ring and you're already ahead of the game there. A shame ToB is off the table, because SUS would be glorious. Wis to AC: Monk's Belt. Next? Flurry of Blows: It's called having a high BAB. Next? Bonus Feats: Fighter gets them, too, and more of them. Next? Evasion: Dip Rogue 2, get Sneak Attack +1d6 as a bonus. Next? Still Mind, X of Body, Slow Fall: Stop wasting my time. Ki Strike: Again, NoNW is your friend. Blah blah: You get the idea.
Most Monk features can easily be replicated by items and a few feats. Fighter with IUS and a Rogue dip can do pretty much everything, without nearly as much limitation.

If you prefer something that still feels Monk-y, Battle Dancer (Dragon Magazine) gets you your Monk's unarmed progression, Cha to AC, plus speed boosts, and still get actual class features. They're not as good as maneuvers, but they're a thing.

[ericgrau]

Martial artist means attacks unarmed. So probably some kind of superior unarmed strike build. But I think that feat is in ToB so something similar instead unless the OP is fine with ToB stuff that doesn't use the maneuver system.

Some acrobatics or ki stuff might be thematic too, but optional.

[sideswipe]

Martial artist means attacks unarmed. So probably some kind of superior unarmed strike build. But I think that feat is in ToB so something similar instead unless the OP is fine with ToB stuff that doesn't use the maneuver system.

Some acrobatics or ki stuff might be thematic too, but optional.

well if we get a bit more technical... martial artist is someone who learns a fighting style that was developed by an army to use in combat.
so using any weapon is a martial art as long as you follow some sort of style of fighting.

anything that means open palm or unarmed when translated it what the monk does. and then again they use weapons too, meaning that they just have a widespread training in martial arts.

('im not getting too deep into this for reasons)

[ericgrau]

That's the thing. The martial artist people imagine is different from the monk. Even thematically. I'd rather ignore the monk class and focus on making a martial artist.

[Psyren]

Shou Disciple gets flurry with martial weapons and you don't need to be a monk to enter - that could fit this concept.

You could also use PF's Brawler base class.

[malonkey1]

You could also use PF's Brawler base class.

Seconded. Although, if you want to use PF stuff, there's also an unarmed archetype for Fighters and several decent Monk ATs. But Brawler is definitely my first choice.

[atemu1234]

Note that battledancer still sucks (albeit a little less)

[Curmudgeon]

Best option is a Barbarian with the City Brawler ACF (Dragon # 349, page 92) to gain the Two-Weapon Fighting feat chain specifically with unarmed strikes (the only exception I know of which allows TWF without a second weapon). Add Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle) for base damage, and get your friendly party Wizard/Sorcerer to cast Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon) on you once a day. You'll have more strikes than a Monk with Flurry of Blows, and lots of unarmed damage.

[Troacctid]

Note that battledancer still sucks (albeit a little less)
I always thought Battledancer sucked a lot more. It gets more BAB, sure, but it loses all the bonus feats (which are one of the main draws for Monk IMO) and the class features it does get are super underwhelming. It also doesn't have any of the sweet alternate class features like Invisible Fist or Shadow Blend that are available to Monks. Plus, dead levels all over the place.

[Drelua]

BAB+3 requirement says "no."

Wouldn't fractional BAB get around that, though? 2 1/2 from Wizard plus 3/4 from Monk rounds down to 3. Of course, that's an optional rule, but I was under the impression that its use was generally encouraged around here.

[Flickerdart]

Wouldn't fractional BAB get around that, though? 2 1/2 from Wizard plus 3/4 from Monk rounds down to 3. Of course, that's an optional rule, but I was under the impression that its use was generally encouraged around here.
Never seen it used in any game I've played.

[Necroticplague]

I always thought Battledancer sucked a lot more. It gets more BAB, sure, but it loses all the bonus feats (which are one of the main draws for Monk IMO) and the class features it does get are super underwhelming. It also doesn't have any of the sweet alternate class features like Invisible Fist or Shadow Blend that are available to Monks. Plus, dead levels all over the place.

You're pretty much right on the money. Its good for a one level dip for CHA to AC, then to promptly multiclass out.

[Tvtyrant]

The best Monk in my opinion is a Clericzilla with SUS. Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell on buffs and a monk's belt makes for a potent martial artist.

[Psyren]

You're pretty much right on the money. Its good for a one level dip for CHA to AC, then to promptly multiclass out.

One advantage it gets is flight in-class. A BD 20 vs. a Monk 20 where both have VoP would be an interesting comparison.

[Troacctid]

One advantage it gets is flight in-class. A BD 20 vs. a Monk 20 where both have VoP would be an interesting comparison.

At level 17? Who cares? A Raptoran or Dragonborn would get the same ability for free. Hell, if you're willing to waste so many levels, you might as well play some a monstrous race with a super-high ECL, like a trumpet archon or avoral guardinal. You'd get more out of it, and you can still play it from level 1 with a monster class.

I mean, flight is nice and all, but I'd rather have non-sucky class features up front than one nice feature at the very end.

[Psyren]

At level 17? Who cares?

Someone who isn't a member of the races you mentioned and is in a low-magic or no-magic setting.

For the record, I'm not saying it's a particularly useful ability - but it's still something the monk does not get.

[Drelua]

Never seen it used in any game I've played.

Huh, my mistake. Still, it's an official variant rule that's not too uncommon, so I guess it was worth mentioning.

[animewatcha]

Best option is a Barbarian with the City Brawler ACF (Dragon # 349, page 92) to gain the Two-Weapon Fighting feat chain specifically with unarmed strikes (the only exception I know of which allows TWF without a second weapon). Add Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle) for base damage, and get your friendly party Wizard/Sorcerer to cast Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon) on you once a day. You'll have more strikes than a Monk with Flurry of Blows, and lots of unarmed damage.

Battledancer might also somewhat say it.

[deuxhero]

Wizard and Archivist are good monk builds out of the box: You spend all day copying book after all. If you do it in a monastery or not is just flavor.

[nedz]

Wizard and Archivist are good monk builds out of the box: You spend all day copying book after all. If you do it in a monastery or not is just flavor.
Cloistered Cleric also hits this mark.

What we are being asked for though is a good monk type build — which is an oxymoron.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?233749-Zinc-Saucier-Optimisation-Challenge-3-Crouching-Rakshasa-Hidden-Wyrm) might be a useful resource however.