Any build -> T2

[Larkas]

So, I remember reading sometime ago someone saying that any one build could be cranked up to 11 and shot up to T2. I think it involved feat based spellcasting. However, I don't know any specifics, or even whether it was 3.5 or PF specific. Do you have any idea what this is all about?

[sideswipe]

the tier list does not take into account optimisation, so saying you could optimise a class to move it up/ down a tier is wrong.

any class can have 15 in knowledge the plains.....

so yes, using things you can make any class broken, but that comes from abusing rules and spellcasting, not the class itself.
the way the class works and its abilities without interacting with feats/races/builds is what designates it on the tier list.

[Larkas]

That's why I said "build", not "class". The bard class is T3. Add some sublime chord in a concrete build and you break the tier ceiling and land at the bottom of T2. But the bard will still be classified as T3. Likewise, a wildshaping mystic ranger is solid T3, though the ranger is merely T4. You can classify a build's versatility/power in terms of the tier system, you just won't change the build's constituent classes in the tier system.

Now, could we get back to my original question?

[Jormengand]

Well, any build can get to tier 1 the moment it gets its hands on gate (Candle of invocation, anyone?) or wish (BoVD sacrifice rules). *Shrug*.

Suspect that wasn't the idea, though.

[sideswipe]

Well, any build can get to tier 1 the moment it gets its hands on gate (Candle of invocation, anyone?) or wish (BoVD sacrifice rules). *Shrug*.

Suspect that wasn't the idea, though.

well it is a little bit, feat based casting is designed to give flexibility but is usually used to bend the game over a bench.

i believe hidden talent is a big one, giving psionic powers.
the soulmeld feats are pretty good since you can get (i believe) any soulmeld you want and there are little restrictions, getting more chakra and pumping it in is not very limited either, so gaining casting abilities that increase your versatility and don't have strong restrictions is usually the key for any class to be bumped up to higher levels of power.

[AmberVael]

Getting high level spellcasting via feats is mainly done through heighten spell abuse, using a loop of heighten spell and the Extra Spell Slot feat. Essentially, using methods like earth spell and sanctum spell (I think there are other methods as well to artificially heighten spells the appropriate amount) you can effectively cast higher level spells, allowing you to take a higher level slot with the extra spell slot feat, at which point you can repeat the process until you have the level of spell you desire. Acquiring spellcasting in the first place is generally done through the magical training feat.

Acquiring a decent spell list is admittedly another task you need to accomplish though, because this method gives you plenty of slots but only cantrips to cast in them.

[sideswipe]

Getting high level spellcasting via feats is mainly done through heighten spell abuse, using a loop of heighten spell and the Extra Spell Slot feat. Essentially, using methods like earth spell and sanctum spell (I think there are other methods as well to artificially heighten spells the appropriate amount) you can effectively cast higher level spells, allowing you to take a higher level slot with the extra spell slot feat, at which point you can repeat the process until you have the level of spell you desire. Acquiring spellcasting in the first place is generally done through the magical training feat.

Acquiring a decent spell list is admittedly another task you need to accomplish though, because this method gives you plenty of slots but only cantrips to cast in them.

fear my maximised, empowered, twinned RAY OF FROST

[AmberVael]

fear my maximised, empowered, twinned RAY OF FROST

Lets go twinned fell drain sonic snaps instead.

[Larkas]

Getting high level spellcasting via feats is mainly done through heighten spell abuse, using a loop of heighten spell and the Extra Spell Slot feat. Essentially, using methods like earth spell and sanctum spell (I think there are other methods as well to artificially heighten spells the appropriate amount) you can effectively cast higher level spells, allowing you to take a higher level slot with the extra spell slot feat, at which point you can repeat the process until you have the level of spell you desire. Acquiring spellcasting in the first place is generally done through the magical training feat.

Acquiring a decent spell list is admittedly another task you need to accomplish though, because this method gives you plenty of slots but only cantrips to cast in them.

I guess that would work. Regarding better spells, maybe getting Int-based Magical Training and ignoring the part of spellcraft that says "wizard only", or getting someone else to inscribe them for you, or using a borrowed spellbook?

EDIT: Or using some shady reading of Greyhawk Method?

[Grod_The_Giant]

the soulmeld feats are pretty good since you can get (i believe) any soulmeld you want and there are little restrictions, getting more chakra and pumping it in is not very limited either, so gaining casting abilities that increase your versatility and don't have strong restrictions is usually the key for any class to be bumped up to higher levels of power.
Soulmelds are versatile, but they don't have that much raw power-- the two main classes are T3 and T3 or 4. Shape Soulmeld gives you one meld; you need to take another feat (Open Chakra) to bind it, a third (Expanded Capacity) to make it powerful, and still more to get the essentia to invest in it. Shape Soulmeld is a great way for any class to get a little extra magic, but it's not a god-power option.

[Chronos]

And yet another feat (Split Chakra) if you also want to be able to use a magic item in that slot.

Then again, though, getting 9th-level spells via feats also requires a ton of feats, more than a single character can get without extreme abuse, so I'm not sure that that's so much different.

[Inevitability]

The Magical Training feat + a fiendish pact for a 9th-level spell slot + Arcane Disciple (envy) = 1/day Wish. Wish for a candle of invocation, go nuts from there.