Need help making an Optimized Arthurian Knight [3.5]

[D4rkh0rus]

Been researching, but cant really find much about making this.

Note: Im talking about a knight concept, not the knight class.

The specifics are not too complicated. A Melee combatant (Full BaB) that can wield Sword and Board effectively (I.E can deal enough damage to not be a detriment to an optimized party)(Lance and board while mounted). Wears Heavy Armor with Heavy Shield, has knowledge of royalty, nobility, history, etc. Survival Skills, Diplomatic Skills, etc.

The problem is finding a chassis.

Given normal point buys, more than 14 Intelligence becomes a problem. And given how most of the Classes that would fit this concept have 2+ Int Skill points and barely any skills... I am at a loss.

The only Class that could resolve most of the problems of this, is the Crusader. But he sorely lacks in the department of feats (As sword and Board feats and Mounted Feats among other stuff do take their toll on the small allotment a character has.)


I'd like to ask the playground if there are any ideas for this.

In advance, Thanks.

[sideswipe]

obligatory DMM persist cloistered cleric mention....

i would suggest OA samurai as part.... as you get bonus feats, all the proficiencies you need. 4+int skill points, a family heirloom sword from the noble knights before you and has diplomacy and intimidate. problem is no knowledges as class skills.

[D4rkh0rus]

obligatory DMM persist cloistered cleric mention....

i would suggest OA samurai as part.... as you get bonus feats, all the proficiencies you need. 4+int skill points, a family heirloom sword from the noble knights before you and has diplomacy and intimidate. problem is no knowledges as class skills.

Im gonna check out Samurai

Also, While CC does work. I dont want to rely on Magic to replace Skill... I.e Magic can replace anything except Combat skill, since a simple AMF or Dead zone kills.

[Troacctid]

Is Pathfinder on the table? Cavaliers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) make pretty good knights.

There's also always the option of multiclassing. A two-level Fighter dip gets you your mounted combat feats and proficiencies, and you can fill the rest of your levels with Crusader.

[sideswipe]

Is Pathfinder on the table? Cavaliers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) make pretty good knights.

There's also always the option of multiclassing. A two-level Fighter dip gets you your mounted combat feats and proficiencies, and you can fill the rest of your levels with Crusader.

a point, most melee builds multiclass heavily. fighter 2, maybe a paladin dip for a few levels, the knight class, add TOB if you like it, and Samurai (OA) all give good benifits.

[WhamBamSam]

The Insightful Strike line of maneuvers is pretty good for dealing damage with a one-handed weapon and there are a few good shield maneuvers in Devoted Spirt.

Perhaps some manner of idiot crusader? Or, if you don't mind being an Elf, a Warblade/Eternal Blade might be just the ticket with flavor that could fit surprisingly well.

[Optimator]

Warblade or Crusader with a 2-level Fighter dip seems perfect for this. Shield Counter FTW!

[endur]

Been researching, but cant really find much about making this.

Note: Im talking about a knight concept, not the knight class.

The specifics are not too complicated. A Melee combatant (Full BaB) that can wield Sword and Board effectively (I.E can deal enough damage to not be a detriment to an optimized party)(Lance and board while mounted). Wears Heavy Armor with Heavy Shield, has knowledge of royalty, nobility, history, etc. Survival Skills, Diplomatic Skills, etc.


I'd play the Paladin out of the PHB. Full BAB. Can use Longsword, Heavy armor and Heavy Shield. Ride and Knowledge Nobility and Royalty are class skills. Free Special Mount at 5th level.

Holy Avenger is the best long sword in D&D 3.x. If you can't find or afford a holy avenger, there is the 4th level Paladin Spell "Holy Sword." (which, if you have a magic shop in your campaign, can be a relatively affordable scroll).

[Jeff the Green]

How open are you to homebrew? The desert ToB substitution levels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8887672&postcount=11) are one of my favorite bits of homebrew, and the crusader is perfect for this. You either swap Stone Dragon for Desert Wind or can use Stone Dragon while mounted (and your mount can move without making you leave the stance), gain a mount that can share stances and boosts, and lose Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike.

[(Un)Inspired]

Holy Avenger is the best long sword in D&D 3.x.

Lol, what? This seems very, very incorrect but I'm willing to consider that I may be wrong. What is your criteria for "best" and why is that the defining criteria?



I think you should look at archivist. They've the skills to pay the bills (the skills bills of course) and full bab.

I'd recommend a single level dip into fighter for weapon and armor prof. If you're worried about anti magic look into worshipping mystra.

[Sam K]

I would say stay away from paladin and samurai if you're going for optimized builds. Those classes are some of the least powerful out of the book. While paladins CAN get extremely optimized, it may no longer have the Arthurian knight feel at that point.

Crusader (or warblade with a crusader dip) can do the heavy armor, sword and board thing quite well, because they can use strikes to make up for the less-than-optimal damage of onehanders. Devoted spirit lets you use a shield for more than just boosting your AC, and ofcourse white raven is great for the knight who plans to lead his retainers in battle.

While crusaders and warblades may not get many bonus feats, they have the advantage that they are viable without too many feats invested. Unlike other melees, you don't have to spend 3 feats in order to be able get useful applications of your weapons. For example, you don't need every shield feat in order to have some cool moves with your shield, a couple of devoted spirit maneuvers will be enough. Two levels of fighter will help as well, obviously.

[Seharvepernfan]

Tell your DM that you want to play a full-bab, good fort save, 8 skill points/level aristocrat with fighter bonus feats. Hopefully, your DM is experienced enough to know that this still isn't as powerful as a ToB class. Call it a "knight". Buy a dog and horse as early as possible (the dog can track by scent). Take track at 1st level, and leadership at 6th (to grab an awakened heavy warhorse - they have scent, so they can take over tracking for your dog). Your horse could be any number of things; a monk, a scout, a scout/ranger swift hunter; anything that is fast, skilled, and has good saves. It can sneak for you, even. If your DM hates this idea, just ask for a pegasus who later gains levels in scout. At really high levels, switch it out for an adult copper dragon

You won't have much in the way of class features, though your bonus feats can be spent on martial stance/study. You might dip ranger or paladin for wand access and maybe a few class features. I'd take a level in crusader and warblade at some point for some extra maneuvers/stances. Maybe a couple levels of Cavalier, but don't get carried away. None of these classes will maintain your skill ranks in more than half of your skills.

If your DM is okay with it, ask if you can have a ranger's combat style feats (for TWF), replacing your bonus feats at those levels, but ignore the light-armor-only restriction. If you take Improved Shield Bash and Over-sized TWF, you can use a shield in your off-hand at the regular -2 TWF penalty. The Shield Ward feat would be a good addition.

Now, the only thing you're missing is a decent source of damage (and, y'know, class features). You'll deal plenty as a lancer, but not much as a sword-n-boarder (though you'll have pretty good AC). Alternatively, get an animated shield ASAP and start two-handing.


Knight
d8, full bab, good fort/will, 8 skills/level
Bluff/Diplomacy/Gather Information/Handle Animal/Intimidate/Knowledge/Listen/Ride/Sense Motive/Spot/Survival/Swim
fighter bonus feats, ignore dex for sword-n-board twf prereq

Human Knight 1
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12
Ranks only: Bluff 4, Persuasion 4, Handle Animal 4, Intimidate 4, Nobility/Royalty 4, History 4, Listen 4, Ride 4, Sense Motive 4, Spot 4, Survival 4
Keen Intellect, TWF, Improved Shield Bash, Over-sized TWF
(Flaw)

Human Knight 18/Crusader 1/Warblade 1
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12 (Str 30, Dex 12, Con 30, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12 - Belt Str +6, Bracers Con +6, Item of Righteous Might)
Ranks only: Balance 5, Bluff 22, Diplomacy 23, Handle Animal 21, Intimidate 23, Nobility/Royalty 21, History 22, Listen 21, Ride 21, Sense Motive 22, Spot 21, Survival 21
Keen Intellect, TWF, Improved Shield Bash, Over-sized TWF, Track, Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Leadership, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Shield Ward,
Improved TWF, Greater TWF, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Close-Quarters Combat, Imperious Command, martial study (steel wind)
stances: roots of the mountain, punishing stance
crusader: charging minotaur, shield block, divine surge, leading the attack, battle leaders charge
warblade: war leader's charge, covering strike, iron heart surge, steel wind

[Vhaidara]

It's a PF option, but the Warder from Dreamscarred Press with the Hussar (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hHsiSKoL2nR4oWgzPKQwXfqYENuNkDmBiX323SlTPfc/edit) class template (third class template on the list.

Warder gets you Golden Lion (Lead from the front discipline) and Iron Tortoise (Shield of Denial discipline) and then Hussar adds Piercing Thunder/Lance (My horse is better than You discipline, currently, sadly, unreleased)

[paperarmor]

How about Paladin 5/ Cavalier 10/ x 5?

this gets you a crapton of damage on a charge with either a long sword or lance. ranks in Know (Nobility and Royalty) a paladin's special mount (using the rule in the dmg about alternate mounts)