Dealing With OOC Conflict:

[Hattish Thing]

So, I'm part of Pathfinder Society, which is a gaming group of about thirty or forty people that get together twice a week at my local gaming shop. We do official rules and all that fun stuff, along with the standard 20 Point Buy. People are divided by tiers, so low-level characters all end up in the same table or sometimes tables. Unfortunately, this means I've been stuck with another player for a few sessions now that really gets on my nerves, and I'm getting really tired of it.

He's playing a halfling cavalier, and I'm playing a human rogue. He's put ranks into every social skill he's got, but due to his being a halfling, and taking traits that really upped his stealth and diplomacy, he's got just as high a modifier in skills as I do. Now, normally that's not an issue with me, it's nice to help one another and work together. However, this guy frequently boasts of the fact that he's 'like a rogue, but better', when it comes to combat, skill checks, and saves. (Which is honestly kinda true with the character he made.)

He just gets off his wolf in combat and flanks an enemy, so he never actually takes damage, and wears something like leather, I think, so he doesn't even have an ACP to balance out his BAB and such. To make things worse, the guy frequently goes against the plans and social roleplaying I initiate, sometimes even screwing up an encounter just to try and prove his being 'like a rogue, but better'.

I don't know what to do, and I'd rather not just stop going... :smallsigh:

[P.F.]

So, I'm part of Pathfinder Society, which is a gaming group of about thirty or forty people that get together twice a week at my local gaming shop. We do official rules and all that fun stuff, along with the standard 20 Point Buy. People are divided by tiers, so low-level characters all end up in the same table or sometimes tables. Unfortunately, this means I've been stuck with another player for a few sessions now that really gets on my nerves, and I'm getting really tired of it.

He's playing a halfling cavalier, and I'm playing a human rogue. He's put ranks into every social skill he's got, but due to his being a halfling, and taking traits that really upped his stealth and diplomacy, he's got just as high a modifier in skills as I do. Now, normally that's not an issue with me, it's nice to help one another and work together. However, this guy frequently boasts of the fact that he's 'like a rogue, but better', when it comes to combat, skill checks, and saves. (Which is honestly kinda true with the character he made.)

He just gets off his wolf in combat and flanks an enemy, so he never actually takes damage, and wears something like leather, I think, so he doesn't even have an ACP to balance out his BAB and such. To make things worse, the guy frequently goes against the plans and social roleplaying I initiate, sometimes even screwing up an encounter just to try and prove his being 'like a rogue, but better'.

I don't know what to do, and I'd rather not just stop going... :smallsigh:

Role-play a big screaming fight with him, ending with the words, "This isn't over." Then kill him in his sleep. The character, that is. Not the player.

[Zanos]

Role-play a big screaming fight with him, ending with the words, "This isn't over." Then kill him in his sleep. The character, that is. Not the player.
PvP is banned in PFS as far as I know.

This is unfortunately an attitude you might see a lot in PFS, people take exorbitant amounts of pride in making strong characters in a system where it's a fairly easy thing to do. Doesn't really sound like the kind of person that you could have an honest chat with about how he's making the game unenjoyable, have you tried bringing it up with your GM?

[unbutu]

It sounds like you have not discussed this around the table, and kept it to yourself. It's a very common problem, and it's something that should be spoken about.

Just say how you feel man. Just express it and see how it goes. It sounds like you feel overshadowed, that you don't have your niche in the party, that you would like to have a role you can take, that you are enjoying the games much less because of this.

Well, if that's how you feel, just say it.

What would be acceptable solutions for you. He must be proud of his character, and that halfling player likely don't want to change it. What would happen if you quitted ? Someone else would come with another character ? Would you accept to change your character and play some other niche ?

[Arbane]

"Okay, YOU disarm all the traps, then."

[Sayt]

Try and have a reasonable conversation with him about how he's being disruptive, polite, mature, etc.

If that doesn't work, ask the organizer if you could switch to another table.

If that doesn't work...

Is Hellcat stealth banned in PFS? Does pulling pants down count as PVP?

[Kurald Galain]

While this player certainly doesn't sound like fun to be with, it is worth noting that the rogue is pretty much one of the weakest classes in PFS. That means that even if you avoid this player entirely, you're still likely to be frequently upstaged by other characters at the table.

I take it from your post that you're still fairly low level? If you're still level 1 you can retrain everything for free; otherwise, PFS has fairly liberal retraining rules. I suggest using that to keep the same character concept but reshape it in a way that's mechanically more viable.

[jedipotter]

I'm not sure i see the conflict.

He has a character, you have a character. You both built and now play what you want.

Is his character ''better'' then yours......guess that depends what ''better'' is.

So his character has lots of ranks in social skills...and your character has none? Guess you picked other skill then, right? Does his build somehow give him all the rouge class abilities?

How does he ''flank an enemy'' and take no damage again?

And lastly...well..not all players ''go with one guys plan or social role playing''. Well...welcome to group role playing. Not everyone in the group is a zombie. You could 'disrupt' his plans too(I would so do this and be all like ''Gosh sorry I messed that up Short Round, but my character is just rogue(beat)'')

But, ok....say you want to be a good guy for whatever reason. All you need to do is use the halfling as part of your plan. If you know he will ''mess things up''....then just make that part of the plan (but don't tell him).

[Hazrond]

I'm not sure i see the conflict.

He has a character, you have a character. You both built and now play what you want.

Is his character ''better'' then yours......guess that depends what ''better'' is.

So his character has lots of ranks in social skills...and your character has none? Guess you picked other skill then, right? Does his build somehow give him all the rouge class abilities?

How does he ''flank an enemy'' and take no damage again?

And lastly...well..not all players ''go with one guys plan or social role playing''. Well...welcome to group role playing. Not everyone in the group is a zombie. You could 'disrupt' his plans too(I would so do this and be all like ''Gosh sorry I messed that up Short Round, but my character is just rogue(beat)'')

But, ok....say you want to be a good guy for whatever reason. All you need to do is use the halfling as part of your plan. If you know he will ''mess things up''....then just make that part of the plan (but don't tell him).


The problem isnt reallyy that he is better from what i can tell, its that he throws it in the other player's face and is essentially going "neener neener im better than you"

[Psyren]

This is actually pretty straightforward, though you may not like the solution. What I'm reading is that you're both filling the same role at the table. Well, D&D and PF are games designed for a team of specialists; if two of you are specializing in the same thing, it's redundant and something's got to give. For whatever reason (hopefully genuine roleplay, and not merely to be a OOC bully) he's decided to make his cavalier stealthy and social, and he is doing that job as well as or perhaps even better than you are.

I'll ask you a fairly simple question - what would you have done if this guy was playing a rogue too, or a ninja, or ranger? Well, logically one of you would probably end up playing something different. So talk to the guy and say that the niches he's taking are things you wanted to do, and see if you can get him to change characters. If not (and I doubt this will work, since he seems so proud of his build), then your best bet is for you to change to something else instead.

The only real surprise here is that he is pulling all this off as a cavalier, but given that he is gearing his race, feats and traits toward this it's not too terribly farfetched either.

[jedipotter]

The problem isnt reallyy that he is better from what i can tell, its that he throws it in the other player's face and is essentially going "neener neener im better than you"

Well, if it is the social problem...what are the Pathfinder Society Rules? Is there an HR department? Can you file a complaint against the player? Does the Society have a ''you art Forbidden from making any other player feel bad'' rule? Can you make some kind of ''poor sportsmanship claim''?

Does this game have a Dm? Maybe you can talk to the DM and say ''Short Round is upsetting me''?

Is what this other player is doing like ''actions unbecoming a member of the Pathfinder society''? Can you do anything within the Society rules?

[Psyren]

In PFS, the GM is judge, jury and executioner when it comes to dealing with problematic players. So if talking to the player does not work, that would be the next step, though ideally these two steps can be combined (letting the GM know there is a problem, since they may not be aware.)

If both the player and GM are unhelpful, your best bet is to leave that paticular table. If however you feel the GM is being unfair or is practicing some other form of malfeasance, you can look up your region's Venture-Captain and file a complaint that way.

[Kanthalion]

Well, if it is the social problem...what are the Pathfinder Society Rules? Is there an HR department? Can you file a complaint against the player? Does the Society have a ''you art Forbidden from making any other player feel bad'' rule? Can you make some kind of ''poor sportsmanship claim''?

Does this game have a Dm? Maybe you can talk to the DM and say ''Short Round is upsetting me''?

Is what this other player is doing like ''actions unbecoming a member of the Pathfinder society''? Can you do anything within the Society rules?

Not necessarily a bad idea, just try not to duplicate the sarcastic tone if you take that tack. Although I'd try to talk to the guy first, and the GM second before that too.

It might seem like "letting him win," but I tend to agree with either modifying your character or rolling a different one for the simple solution.

EDIT: sorry, I should not have been snippy, Jedipotter. I'm sure it has to do with the limits of the medium, but the way I read your comment I felt there was an unnecessary sarcastic tone. I apologize if I miss-read.

[Elinvar]

He's playing a halfling cavalier, and I'm playing a human rogue. He's put ranks into every social skill he's got, but due to his being a halfling, and taking traits that really upped his stealth and diplomacy, he's got just as high a modifier in skills as I do. Now, normally that's not an issue with me, it's nice to help one another and work together. However, this guy frequently boasts of the fact that he's 'like a rogue, but better', when it comes to combat, skill checks, and saves. (Which is honestly kinda true with the character he made.)

That doesn't sound possible; whats his build?

The solution seems pretty obvious to me; if he wants to play rouge, let him play rouge. Just get back at him by being "like a Cavalier, but better."

Most situations don't need mounts, so you don't have to waste points on that. Instead max acrobatics, disable device, knowledge local, knowledge nobility, perception, and use magic device. If you still have skill points, use them as you will, but put some in climb and swim.
You’ll be able to use magic stuff he can’t, and use knowledge nobility whenever possible, and when he can’t keep up because you have more int say something like “What, how could you not know about the Bursnby scandal? Everyone who’s anyone can’t talk about anything else.” or “Really [Cavalier], were you raised in a barn? You use the left fork!” that sort of thing. I mean what really is a knight who doesn’t have any class?
He can’t even say he’s more in touch with common folk either, because knowledge local isn’t a cross class skill for you.

Now in combat cavaliers are supposed to be debuff enemies, brawl, and charge a lot. Fortunately you are playing the most versatile race and most versatile class; you can do this.

First get yourself a chain shirt, anything heavier drains a feat and deprives you of evasion, and will reduce your dex bonus.
Use your first level feats to get weapon finesse and toughness. This will compensate a bit for your low hit points, and hit a lot more often. When you hit level three take two weapon fighting, which will let you do twice the sneak attack damage.
I’d recommend twin short swords, but you’re weapons are up to you.

For rouge talents, take Dirty strike which lets you apply a dirty trick debuff on anyone you hit with a sneak attack for free, and acrobatic charge which lets you charge through an enemy or their threatened area with an acrobatics check, and even change direction!

Congratulations; you may be a bit on the squishy side, but you are now better at debuffing and charging than a cavalier, and will do better damage as long as you’re flanking.

If you really want to get into the cavalier mindset there’s a rouge trick which is called self sacrifice or something, which lets you protect someone else from an AoE attack if you have improved evasion.

Also, this is a bit left field, but you can get alchemist bombs too which deal your sneak attack in damage over a 15 foot cube I think. They’re not cavalierly, but they are awesome. You get one per int mod or something.

Or I guess you could just play a different class and do rouge latter.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Thirding what JediPotter said.

Surely in a large, organized group, there are rules about behavior. There's always someone who's going to be a jackass, there has to be a rule you can point to, as grounds to toss them out on their ass for it.

Try asking the player to not be so argumentative. They don't need to stop playing their guy, just tone down the rogue bashing, and try not to screw your plans over personally. Be nice, be polite. The guy might not even realise he's bothering you.

If that doesn't work, take your issues to the DM, and ask him to either move you to another table, or adjudicate some sort of peace treaty between you two.

As a last resort, ask the DM to keep an eye on this guy while you play. Tell him you're feeling harassed, and heckled. If he's worth his salt, he'll ask the problem player to tone it down, more to another table, or possibly even leave.

Remember, you don't win by ruining someone else's fun. You win when you guys stop butting heads, and learn to get along.