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View Full Version : Optimization MADdest classes/builds



martixy
2015-01-17, 03:54 AM
So recently, in a highly fortuitous turn of events I seem to have rolled extremely high stats for a new campaign I started, namely:
18/18/17/15/15/11

So with that in mind, which class/build would most benefit from such high rolls? Going full munchin encouraged.
I'm talking less about intrinsic power(i.e. Wizard) and more about what benefits most from every single slight ability increase of all abilties(well, 5 of them in this case).

BWR
2015-01-17, 03:59 AM
Any mundane types will benefit. If you really want to gimp yourself, paladin-monk.

eggynack
2015-01-17, 04:07 AM
Cleric does well with high stats, though I certainly wouldn't call them dependent on those stats. You get wisdom for casting, charisma for turn attempts, physical stats to beat folks in the face (because clerics don't use stat replacement to beat face), and intelligence just because skills are good. Definitely the core tier one that derives the most from stats, because druids stat swap, and wizards tend to not beat face directly at all. Archivist is comparable, but their missing mental stat is charisma instead of intelligence, which means they get less utility from boosting everything. For the "dump stat" on the cleric, I'd consider dexterity, because heavy armor obviates some of the need for it, even if it doesn't obviate all of it.

Amphetryon
2015-01-17, 06:50 AM
Rogue 3/Paladin 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10/Shadowstriker 3. INT is your least important stat.

ApologyFestival
2015-01-17, 07:35 AM
I rolled a similar array for a recent campaign where primary spellcasters were not playable characters, had the same thought as you, and settled on the factotum.

I would not consider the factotum to be MAD, but they do benefit more than most from high ability scores across the board. As the party's skill monkey, and with all skills in-class, the factotum benefits from every ability score being high to get that little bit extra oomph on their skill checks. Intelligence is their primary mental ability score, but they have a class feature that benefits from both Wisdom and Charisma--channelling positive energy and turning undead. A factotum should pick either Strength or Dexterity as their combat ability score and dump the other. Constitution is as important to them as it is to everyone else.

darksolitaire
2015-01-17, 09:05 AM
Ranger. With Sword of the Arcane Order. You want strength for close combat, dexterity for feat prequisites, armor class and ranged attacks, constitution for not dying, intelligence for Wizard spells, wisdom for Ranger spells and improved will saves, and charisma because wild empathy is useless otherwise.

Divine Bard. Needs stats as normal Bard and also wisdom for spells.

J-H
2015-01-17, 09:18 AM
Favored Soul benefits from Wis & Cha for spellcasting, STR/Dex/Con for melee (they get a few melee bonuses), and everyone likes skill points. You get wings about 10 levels after the Wizard can cast Fly.

Denver
2015-01-17, 01:16 PM
With those stats, you could try to have a lot of fun as a class that *isn't* that class.

Like a barbarian who thinks he is a sorcerer, or a fighter who thinks he is a skillful rogue. I don't know what the feel of the campaign you are going into might be, but everyone likes a chuckle here and there. When your "Sorcerer" casts Detect Thought, and you have to hope for some really strong sense motive rolls, it can get pretty entertaining.

martixy
2015-01-17, 02:53 PM
I rolled a similar array for a recent campaign where primary spellcasters were not playable characters, had the same thought as you, and settled on the factotum.

I would not consider the factotum to be MAD, but they do benefit more than most from high ability scores across the board. As the party's skill monkey, and with all skills in-class, the factotum benefits from every ability score being high to get that little bit extra oomph on their skill checks. Intelligence is their primary mental ability score, but they have a class feature that benefits from both Wisdom and Charisma--channelling positive energy and turning undead. A factotum should pick either Strength or Dexterity as their combat ability score and dump the other. Constitution is as important to them as it is to everyone else.

Indeed. I stumbled across this little gem on my own yesterday and thought it fit pretty well.
Then I researched and learned about such things as class tiers and gishes.

So it would appear that I am for some reason inexorably drawn towards T3 classes. I've been in 3 DnD campaigns so far, first was ranged Bard, next was crit-optimized Warblade and now Factotum. I think I just like seeing a crapton and different lines in my character progression table.

I mean primary spellcasters aren't banned or anything, we get our fair share of OP, I'm just not drawn to them. But I am still quite fond of optimizing. Anyway, here's what I settled on:
Human, Factotum

STR 18 18
DEX 15 15 (+1 @ L12)
CON 15 15 (+1 @ L4)
INT 18 18
WIS 11 11
CHA 17 17 (+1 @ L8)

Flaws:
Shaky
Inattentive

Feats:

1n. Font of inspiration

1f. Font of inspiration

1f. Font of inspiration

1b. Nymph's Kiss

3n. Knowledge Devotion [Any Knowledge 5 ranks]
At L3 you get enough ranks to get it.

6n. Item familiar(scytche)

9n. Leadership

12n. Improved Critical

15n. Power Attack
We start at L3, up till 15-16 or smth(TBD). I'm gonna be the skill and trap-monkey, naturally. We have a transmuter, a tracky RANGEr and a monk.
Though anything past L9 is still very much subject to debate.

HyperDunkBarkly
2015-01-18, 12:42 AM
make a trip knight. knights are extremely MAD.

OldTrees1
2015-01-18, 10:44 AM
Martial Rogue with dips in Fighter 2 (Dungeon Crasher), Barbarian 2 (Spirit Lion Wolf Totem), Warblade 1 (@9th+ grab Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics). Try to fit in Swordsage 2 (@8th+ Assassin's Stance) / Scarelet Corsair 5.

Use Str for your combat stat. Dex will give you the AoOs for battlefield control (and help your AC/Initative). Int will give you the skill points to utilize the Rogue skill list despite multiclassing. Cha will boost your social skills and let you have Imperious Command(combine with Fearsome Armor for in combat intimidation that matters). The Wis is less important since it only boosts your perception skills and Will save but it will make good use of the bonus.

This would work best with a flying large race such as a Dragonborn Goliath(gain large size through Goliath Barbarian 1) or Half Minotaur(nerfed to taste) Raptorian.

Xerlith
2015-01-18, 10:57 AM
Something with Iaijutsu master? Dex to attack, Charisma to initiative and damage, Int to AC...
Factotum3/Hit and Run Exoticist Fighter 1/Swordsage2/Battle Dancer1/Warblade7/Iaijutsu Master5/Kung-Fu Genius Monk1

Strength or Wisdom is your dump stat, in this case.

DEMON
2015-01-18, 06:40 PM
Ranger. With Sword of the Arcane Order. You want strength for close combat, dexterity for feat prequisites, armor class and ranged attacks, constitution for not dying, intelligence for Wizard spells, wisdom for Ranger spells and improved will saves, and charisma because wild empathy is useless otherwise.

Seconded. Except I'd trade Wild Empathy for Spiritual Connection and go with 11 in CHA and go with archery style (STR still important for damage). A single level of Wizard highly recommended as it comboes very well with Shooting Star Ranger/SotAO.

Archery focus with 15 STR, 18 DEX, 17 CON, 15 INT, 18 WIS and 11 CHA. At 4th level, go for +1 to either CON or INT.

As explained by darksolitaire, all abilities have their purpose in this kind of build.

gr8artist
2015-01-19, 12:17 AM
Take Paladin and Monk, going into PF's "Champion of the Enlightened," a PRC that continues progression for the main features of both classes. Bonus points if you take PF's "Sacred Servant" Paladin archetype, gaining the Rage domain and, consequently, the Rage extraordinary ability, so as to market yourself as a Barbarian.
A similar option, if you're starting at a high-ish level, is Ninja (Cha-based Ki pool) + Monk + Paladin + Bloodrager (rage without alignment restriction, Cha-based arcane casting with enough levels) and dump the crap outta' wisdom.
If you're using PF Paladin, consider TWF, since smite applies to all attacks until the end of the fight, and more attacks means more smite damage being done.