[3.x] Screaming Devilkin

[Thurbane]

Just a RAW question about a 3rd party monster (Screaming Devilkin, Tome of Horrors Revised p.310).

It's scream renders victims Dazed for as long as it continues screaming. Victims are allowed a new save each round to break the effect.

My question: is the new save made on the victims turn, or on the Devilkin's turn? If it on the victims turn, does this apply on the first round of dazing? Because this means that the victim effectively gets 2 saves (if after the creature in initiative) to totally ignore the effect. If they save, do they act normally the very same round, or do they lose actions similarly to saving against a Hold Person?

A dazed creature can attempt a new save each round to break the effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by same screaming devilkin’s scream for one day.
Cheers - T

[jedipotter]

My question: is the new save made on the victims turn, or on the Devilkin's turn? If it on the victims turn, does this apply on the first round of dazing? Because this means that the victim effectively gets 2 saves (if after the creature in initiative) to totally ignore the effect. If they save, do they act normally the very same round, or do they lose actions similarly to saving against a Hold Person?



A save is made as needed, and is not an action. A save is made as soon as a character hears the scream on round one.

And if it keeps screaming, they will each make their save on their turn. It's exactly the same for for most such things: the save is made on the effected characters turn.

There is no way to get two saves.

If the save is made, then the character is free to act normally.

[Renen]

I feel like this need elaboration:
When it screams, everyone immediately makes the save. If someone fails, they get affected and suffer the debuff until its their turn (for the purpose of losing AoO and such, or w/e daze does). Then when its their turn, they try the save again. If they fail, they still have the debuff. If they pass, they lose the debuff and can proceed with their turn.

[Thurbane]

There is no way to get two saves.
But, say the Devilkin is initiative 6, and Bob the Fighter is on initiative 5.

The Devilkin screams: Bob fails his save, and is Dazed.

When initiative clicks over to 5, he saves again, and this time is successful, and has his full normal round.

Effectively, he rolls 2 saves before the scream has any effect on him...

[A_S]

But, say the Devilkin is initiative 5, and Bob the Fighter is on initiative 6.

The Devilkin screams: Bob fails his save, and is Dazed.

When initiative clicks over to 6, he saves again, and this time is successful, and has his full normal round.

Effectively, he rolls 2 saves before the scream has any effect on him...
I believe this is correct, though as Renen mentioned, being dazed might have some effect on the character (being unable to take AoO's, suffering an AC penalty, etc.) even before their turn rolls around.

But yes, I believe you would have to fail two saves to lose a turn's actions to it.

[avr]

The text here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/screaming-devilkin) is written differently - failing the save means you are dazed for 1 round. When the devilkin's initiative comes around you make the save again to see if you are dazed for another round.

Since it claims to be from the same source, maybe it was changed in the interests of clarity at some point?

[jedipotter]

But, say the Devilkin is initiative 5, and Bob the Fighter is on initiative 6.

The Devilkin screams: Bob fails his save, and is Dazed.

When initiative clicks over to 6, he saves again, and this time is successful, and has his full normal round.

Effectively, he rolls 2 saves before the scream has any effect on him...



Well, first off:

You only get one save per round vs just about any single effect.

But more importantly: A dazed creature can attempt a new save each round to break the effect.

So Round 1

20:Devilkin screams! Bob fails his saving throw!

11:Bobs action for round one, so he does not get a ''new save'', he already made his save for round one.

Bob does not get another save until round 2

[Thurbane]

Well, first off:

You only get one save per round vs just about any single effect.

But more importantly: A dazed creature can attempt a new save each round to break the effect.

So Round 1

20:Devilkin screams! Bob fails his saving throw!

11:Bobs action for round one, so he does not get a ''new save'', he already made his save for round one.

Bob does not get another save until round 2
Thank you, that's very helpful.

I thought it would render the ability a bit naff otherwise...

My example was a bit borked, I was having a flashback to another edition where lower initiative went first!