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Kalmageddon
2015-01-18, 09:09 AM
In a month I'll be making a character for a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I've been asked to provide a ranged character, because everyone else is either melee or support focused.

My first tought was to make an archer but I immediately got bored of it, plus I'm not a fan of the unrealistic arrow spam, so I started to instead think about a crossbowman build. Unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with Pathfinder as I am with 3.5 and what little crossbow related feats I could find seem lackluster compared to just using a bow.

I'm looking for advice on how to build an effective long range crossbow sniper, one shot, one kill kind of guy, possibily able to function as a scout, so skilled in stealth and survival.
Any advice? All official sources should be available and the GM is not against minor fixes and homebrewing, though I would prefer to stick to official sources to avoid possibile balance issues or complaints from other players.

Sayt
2015-01-18, 09:40 AM
One shot one kill style snipers are lamentably unsupported, but the Gunslinger archetype Bolt Ace lets crossbowmen at least function. Otherwise, the DSP third party class Marksman can do Crossbow sniper relatively well.

Dgrin
2015-01-18, 09:47 AM
You may be interested in the Bolt Ace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/bolt-ace) archetype for gunslinger.
Dead Shot deed may be useful for "one shot, one kill" type of build.

I haven't played it myself yet so I cannot comment more. You may be interested in great Gunslinger guide by N. Jolly (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1En2ECuP1v63kTqGIUx5dpuhZQuoXl9Tc0UEj3P_xYN0/edit) for build advice. Good luck!

kalasulmar
2015-01-18, 09:51 AM
Seconding Bolt Ace. Also, Slayer with X-bow feats could get the one-shot, one kill, effect once he gets access to Assassinate at 10th level.

Kudaku
2015-01-18, 10:11 AM
Bolt Ace is in my opinion the only competitive crossbow build that doesn't involve serious cheese.

That said, I'd see if you can have your GM tweak the archetype a little. Bolt Ace still gains firearm proficiency, Gunsmith and a battered firearm at level 1, which seems like an oversight when you take the flavour into account. I'd suggest changing the proficiency to all crossbows and switching Gunsmith with Rapid Reload or something similar.

Kalmageddon
2015-01-18, 06:13 PM
As far as I can see, the Bolt Ace is still a fairly close range class, with abilities needing to be within the first range increment to work and others focusing on avoiding AoO while firing and reloading in melee... Sooo really not what I was looking for.

Isn't there something for real long range sharpshooting? Maybe something that lets you make sneak attacks at long range or maybe automatically crit or something. Anything to at least get the feeling of a precise and deadly shot instead of just another annoying projectile that any enemy above CR 3 will hardly notice...

Kudaku
2015-01-18, 06:46 PM
The reason people are suggesting bolt ace is the 5th level ability to add dex to damage with crossbows - without a source of extra damage to compete with strength on composite bows, the crossbow is not an effective alternative.

If you want a single 'big hit' then I'd consider the Vital Strike chain and making your crossbow as large as possible. I think the end result might be underwhelming though - ranged weapons tend to rely on volley attacks rather than a single massive strike.

There are items and tactics (Fire Sight and smoke stick for example) that let you gain sneak attack with at long range, but again SA benefits most from making lots of attacks.

kalasulmar
2015-01-18, 07:05 PM
Snipers Goggles let you SA at any range.

Abrasis Mindlef
2015-01-19, 05:09 AM
*Fairly Close range* class...at what distance do you want to fight?


The Bolt ace can sharp shoot at 80' during the lower Levels(ordinary light crossbow); at 160' once a +1 distance light crossbow is available.

Starting at Level 9(with crossbow mastery and crossbow Training(Heavy crossbow), they can sharp shoot at 240' range(+1 distance heavy crossbow).

Both the Initial range(80') and the increased range(240') are actually far more than the effective range of normal gunslingers(20' or 40' in lower Levels; 40'/80' at higher Levels)

Of course, you're free to shoot at longer ranges, but don't enjoy the ability to target Touch AC in such cases.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Example:

1/-2-elf (Bolt Ace) Gunslinger

15 PB:

10 STR 18 DEX 12 CON 8 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA

Alternate Racial traits: Dual-minded(+2 will save; replaces Adaptability)

Traits: Reactionary(+2 initiative), Indomitable Faith(+1 will save)

Use Human FCB(+1/4 Grit)

1st: Deeds(Sharp Shoot, Vigilant loading, Gunslinger's dodge), Grit, Gunsmith; (Gunsmithing), Point Blank Shot
2nd: Nimble +1
3rd: Deeds(Gunslinger Initiative, Pistol-Whip, Shooter's Resolve); Precise Shot
4th: Deadly Aim, +1 DEX
5th: Crossbow Training(Light Crossbow); Rapid Reload(Light Crossbow)
6th: Nimble +2
7th: Deeds(Dead Shot, Targeting, Distracting Shot); Rapid Shot
8th: Improved Critical(Light Crossbow), +1 DEX
9th: Crossbow Training(Heavy Crossbow); Crossbow Mastery (Retrain Improved Critical to Heavy Crossbow)
10th: Nimble +3
11th: Deeds(Bleeding Wound, Vigilant Shooter, Inexplicable Reload); Signature Deed(Sharp Shoot)
12th: Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Double Crossbow), +1 DEX
13th: Crossbow Training(Double crossbow); Weapon Focus(Double Crossbow) (Retrain Improved Critical to Double Crossbow)
14th: Nimble +4
15th: Deeds(Evasive, Slinger's luck, Pinning Shot); Snap Shot
16th: Improved Snap Shot, +1 DEX
17th: Crossbow Training(Hand crossbow); Combat Reflexes
18th: Nimble +5
19th: Deeds(Cheat Death, Death's Shot, Stunning Shot); Ability Focus(Stunning Shot)
20th: True Grit(Stunning Shot, Sharp Shoot), +1 DEX; Greater Snap Shot (Retrain Signature Deed to Stunning Shot)


At 1st lvl, you can target Touch AC by paying 1 Grit at 80' range.
At 4th lvl, with a +1 light crossbow, you can shoot a single bolt for 1d8+5 damage - nothing special, unfortunately.
At 5th lvl, you shoot for 1d8+9, or 1d8+10 if you have a Dex-boosting item.
At 7th lvl, you can perform the dead shot deed; full-round Action for 1 attack; two attack rolls, if one threatens a critical, the entire attack is a critical threat; deals 2d8+10/11 damage

Crossbows have 19-20/x2 crits, 19-20/x3 with crossbow Training, 17-20/x3 with improved critical/Keen and crossbow Training, 17-20/x4 with improved critical/keen, crossbow Training and bracers of falcon's aim.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reloading Double Crossbows:

It may be the case that some People argue that the Double Crossbow (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/crossbow-double) is a *trap* Option because it is difficult to reload.

Fear not! RAW is on your side.



This heavy weapon fires a pair of iron-tipped bolts with a single squeeze of the trigger.
Benefit: Make one attack roll. If the attack hits, the target takes damage from both bolts. Critical hits, sneak attack damage, and other precision-based damage only apply to the first bolt.

Drawback: Due to its size and weight, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll if you’re proficient with it, or –8 if you’re not.

Load: Loading one bolt is a standard action; the Rapid Reload feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-reload-combat) reduces this to a move action. Crossbow Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crossbow-mastery-combat) allows you to reload both bolts as a single move action.

So...you can shoot two bolts with one attack, akin to Manyshot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/manyshot-combat---final).

You can reload a single bolt as Standard Action;
If you have Rapid Reload(Double Crossbow), you can reload a single bolt as move action.
If you have Crossbow Mastery, you can reload both bolts as move action.

Despite this weapon text, double crossbows do not negate the benefit of Crossbow mastery:



-Snip-
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.

Is the Double crossbow a *type of crossbow* ? - YES

As such, you can reload it as a free Action. You can always choose to reload a single bolt as Standard Action, or choose to load two bolts as move Action...but nothing stops you from using the Crossbow Mastery feat to reload it as a free Action.

Firest Kathon
2015-01-19, 05:25 AM
Having played the first part of the RotR campaign, I would suggest against focusing on extremely long range. Like most published Pathfinder adventures, you will rarely get the opportunity to start an encounter at more than 100 ft. distance.

Sayt
2015-01-19, 06:36 AM
Bracer's of falcon's aim don't stack with keen.

Abrasis Mindlef
2015-01-19, 07:31 AM
Bracers of Falcon's Aim do not stack with Improved Critical/Keen as far as expanding the THREAT RANGE is concerned.

An ordinary crossbow has 19-20 crit range, and x2 crit Multiplier.
Bracers of Falcon's aim change that to 19-20/x3.

Crossbow Training changes that to 19-20/x4.

Improved Critical or Keen changes the threat range from 19-20(the unmodified value, which happens to be identical to the value after Aspect of the Falcon was applied) to 17-20.

The relevant part of Bracers is the increase in Critical multiplier.

Earthwalker
2015-01-19, 07:59 AM
I am thinking maybe some flavour of inquisitor rogue.

Sneak attack with sniper goggles. Grab some of the rogue talents for better sniping (think it reduces the DC for staying hidden)

Then I think Inquisitor can make your crossbow a bane crossbow.

Loxagn
2015-01-19, 08:10 AM
Ask your GM if he will allow you to Power Attack with a ranged weapon? Call it Called Shot instead if you want, make the requirement for Dex instead of Strength. It's not as if you're going to break the game with that, but it'll certainly go a long way towards helping you function in your intended role.

Sayt
2015-01-19, 08:16 AM
Thats already a thing, yo (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)

Unless you mean 3.5 Power attack with the ****ty ratio and BAB cap. But if your GM can add one and one and spots the touch attack mechanics, they might crack up and/or throw the core book at you.

kalasulmar
2015-01-19, 09:11 AM
Only problem with your crossbow mastery shenanigans is that in the description of double crossbow it specifically states that crossbow mastery allows you to load both bolts as a move action, thereby destroying your build.

Abrasis Mindlef
2015-01-19, 09:19 AM
Is the Double crossbow a *type of crossbow* ? - YES

As such, you can reload it as a free Action. You can always choose to reload a single bolt as Standard Action, or choose to load two bolts as move Action...but nothing stops you from using the Crossbow Mastery feat to reload it as a free Action.

Nothing, even the double weapon text, removes the benefits of the Crossbow Mastery feat. The Option to reload two bolts as one move Action is certainly possible, but it is not the only way to reload a double crossbow.

Azoth
2015-01-19, 09:41 AM
Another option is to use the Path of War base classes to gain access to the Solar Wind Discipline. Depending on the class chosen (all have a way of getting access) you can build an effective crossbowman and lay down some serious hurt between boosts and strikes.

kalasulmar
2015-01-19, 09:53 AM
Specific beats general. Double crossbow text specifically states it doesn't work the way you think it does.

Abrasis Mindlef
2015-01-19, 10:14 AM
Well, the weapon description of Double crossbow describes one *Option* for reloading a Double Crossbow, contingent on some prerequisites.

a) you can reload a single bolt as Standard Action
b) With the Rapid Reload feat, you can reload a single bolt as a move Action.
c) Crossbow Mastery allows you reload two bolts as a move Action.

Allows to is not Forces you to.
You could reload a single bolt, even if you have Crossbow mastery, if you want.

Crossbow Mastery, however, adds a fourth Option:
d) Reload any crossbow as free Action.

This extra Option does not invalidate or replace any other Options to reload a (double) crossbow.

Just as you can choose to load a single bolt if you have crossbow mastery, even if you can reload two bolts at once with a move Action, you can choose to reload the double crossbow as a free Action using the benefit of Crossbow Mastery.


Alternatively, if your DM decides to rule otherwise or consider this interaction a gray area, you can always choose to use a Minotaur Double Crossbow (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/minotaur) instead, which has no specific Interaction with Crossbow Mastery(and can thus be reloaded as free Action per Crossbow Mastery, as normal), and has a lower attack Penalty to boot!


Facing this alternative, I suppose many DMs will reconsider and allow you to use a normal Double Crossbow instead(at least you have a -4 attack Penalty instead of a -2 Penalty here...)

Psyren
2015-01-19, 12:29 PM
Abrasis, all I'll say is that if you get your GM to swallow that interpretation more power to you.

OT: I second a Bolt Ace/Slayer kinda build.

Dgrin
2015-01-19, 01:14 PM
By the way, you can also go for Marksman from Dreamscarred Press for that concept if you're not against psionics.
Go for Shroud archetype, Sniper style and you can have quire a good crossbowman (compared to alternative ideas, of course)
That may be combined with other options, I may think about the build later if I have time

Sayt
2015-01-19, 03:13 PM
Only problem with your crossbow mastery shenanigans is that in the description of double crossbow it specifically states that crossbow mastery allows you to load both bolts as a move action, thereby destroying your build.

...huh, that's pretty clever, I never realised that.

NightbringerGGZ
2015-01-19, 06:11 PM
I'm helping a player work through a very similar build and I've tried a few in the past. Here's what I can share:

Option 1 - The Traditional Rogue Sniper
This is the option that is hardest to pull off, especially at long range. You'll be looking a single attack per round (at the most), so this is one of the rare instances where you might look at the Vital Strike feat. You need to plan on either a) re-entering stealth every round, b) use the sniping rules or c) feinting the target every round. Options for re-entering stealth each round usually require some multi-classing so plan for those. The sniping rules are actually ok if you can find ways to mitigate the -20 penalty to your Stealth check. Halflings with the Swift as Shadow trait can reduce the penalty by 10, the Rogue advanced talent Snipers Eye sets the base penalty at -10. There may be other options, I haven't checked lately. My player is going to pick up Improved Feint ASAP and give that a try. If you want sneak attack damage from more than 30 feet away make sure you pick up those Sniper's Goggles asap or ask your GM to hand wave that penalty away.

Option 2 - The Ninja Way aka Smokey no jitsu
Similar to the Rogue method, only you abuse smoke bombs combined with some method of allowing yourself to see through the smoke yourself. At higher levels you pick up Vanishing Trick and Invisible Blade and just abuse that ability (while keeping the bombs in reserve). This method winds up not being too bad in actual practice.

Option 3 - The Grenadier Alchemist
This is my favorite method and just requires some refluff. At level 2 you can use the Alchemical Weapon ability granted by the archetype and at level 4 pick up Explosive Missile for a better version. Since you're using Bombs you get to add your Intelligence Modifier to your damage, and with the right race you can boost that damage even more through Favored Class bonuses. Now you're sniping with a single big, explosive hit that adds additional effects based bomb and admixture effects. You've also got a great chasis for being stealthy.

Option 4 - Multi-Classing
If you want to ignore the bonus die classes you could probably put together somebody who does a lot of damage with some clever multi-classing. As has already been pointed out, Bolt Ace 5 is a great foundation to work with. Fighter (Crossbowman) has some decent abilities, though they'd be better if you were Gestalting than on their own. Adding on Slayer for Studied Target mechanics is great too.

Psyren
2015-01-19, 06:26 PM
To add to Nightbringer's great suggestions, the Inquisitor is pretty nice with a crossbow too. Judgment, (Greater) Bane and Litany of Vengeance/Righteousness give your shots plenty of bonus damage.

Also, one way to get the "one big shot" flavor people have been wanting is to refluff Clustered Shots. You still use your iteratives as a delivery mechanism, but because the damage from the attacks is added up before calculating things like DR and massive damage rules, you can simply refluff it as a particularly debilitating hit.

Kalmageddon
2015-01-23, 08:58 AM
How about a Bolt Ace/Rogue Multiclass? Could it work?

NightbringerGGZ
2015-01-23, 09:10 AM
How about a Bolt Ace/Rogue Multiclass? Could it work?

Sure. You'll delay getting sneak attack until level 6 as you should probably go Bolt Ace 5 for that lovely Dex to Damage bonus. The annoyance will be that ranged sneak attacks only work within 30 feet unless you buy those Sniper's Goggles.

Look at my suggestions for the Rogue build. You'll want some method of reliably entering stealth mode so you can get that extra sneak attack damage. When you can't sneak attack you should probably focus on getting as many shots off as you can.

There will be other builds that can get more damage off per shot, but you don't have to go with a 100% optimized build all the time. Bolt Ace / Rogue should be a fun build overall.

Psyren
2015-01-23, 10:08 AM
One drawback to ranged sneak attack builds is that Fogcutting Lenses and Sniper Goggles take up the same slot. If your GM does not allow you to combine these items, there are two strategies you can use:

- Ask your DM to let you wear a Goz Mask (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Goz%20Mask) from ISWG instead of the Fogcutting Lenses. The mask takes up the head slot rather than the eyes and lets you see through fog and smoke.

- If that option is too expensive or setting-specific, you can also play an Ifrit - one of their racial feats, Firesight, lets them see through smoke, and they have good stats for a rogue or ninja (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis.) With that you can simply pick up the Sniper Goggles and not worry about using an item to see through fog or smoke.

Kalmageddon
2015-01-23, 11:41 AM
Sounds good as far as class and magical item goes.
What about feats? I did a bit of research and these caught my attention:

Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) sounds mandatory and could be good even outside of firing a single massive shot.

Improved Precise Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-precise-shot-combat---final) also sounds good, given that as I am further away from my target the chances of obstructions getting in the way increase.

Prone Shooter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/prone-shooter-combat) is one of the few feats I could find that seems to be made for this build.

Aside from the obvious Quick Reload, is there anything else I'm missing?

NightbringerGGZ
2015-01-23, 12:48 PM
Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot are basic requirements for ranged builds. You want Rapid Reload so you can get your reload speed down to a free action if possible, allowing for iterative attacks.

If you can get free action reloading, Rapid Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-shot-combat---final) is a good feat to have.

If you go with the Sniping or Feinting techniques you'll only have a single attack per round. With those builds it might be worth investing in a decent Int score so you can use Focused Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/focused-shot-combat). Adding your Int and your Dex to a single shot is nice, particularly if it is a sneak attack as well.

Psyren
2015-01-23, 12:53 PM
Prone Shooter's bonuses are too miniscule to be worth the feat. Given all the prereqs you'll need for the good stuff I wouldn't bother with it.

If you're using massive damage rules Clustered Shot is worth a look, otherwise skip it.

AZGrowler
2015-01-23, 05:55 PM
Seconding Bolt Ace. Also, Slayer with X-bow feats could get the one-shot, one kill, effect once he gets access to Assassinate at 10th level.

There's Sniper archetype for Slayer that trades track with Accuracy, which halves all range increment penalties. He also has an ability that lets you extend the range you can use Sneak Attack.

Roxxy
2015-01-23, 06:50 PM
One shot one kill style snipers are lamentably unsupported, but the Gunslinger archetype Bolt Ace lets crossbowmen at least function. Otherwise, the DSP third party class Marksman can do Crossbow sniper relatively well.I think the problem is that one shot kill is incredibly powerful.

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-23, 09:25 PM
I think the problem is that one shot kill is incredibly powerful.

Other than assassination, one of the few ways Pathfinder gets close to "one shot, one kill" is their Arrows of Slaying (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/slaying-arrow), a +1 arrow requiring a DC 20 Fort save or take 50 points of damage, or DC 23 for 100 points for the Greater version. This was a departure from 3.x, which was save or die with the same DC's.

Sayt
2015-01-23, 09:35 PM
Other than assassination, one of the few ways Pathfinder gets close to "one shot, one kill" is their Arrows of Slaying (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/slaying-arrow), a +1 arrow requiring a DC 20 Fort save or take 50 points of damage, or DC 23 for 100 points for the Greater version. This was a departure from 3.x, which was save or die with the same DC's.

This is fairly standard for PF conversions, a lot of save or dies are not save or take relatively immense amounts of damage. Wail of the Banshee and Destruction are both 10xCL damage.

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-23, 09:48 PM
Is there a way in PF to cast spells onto missile ammo before shooting it? That might be another option, although depending on the build it would probably require a wand or other source for the spell.

RolkFlameraven
2015-01-23, 10:21 PM
Arcane Archer but... well its Arcane Archer. While it IS better then 3.5 in that you now get 7/10 CL vs 0 in 3.5 its still not really all that grate.

Tohsaka Rin
2015-01-23, 10:45 PM
If it's not too late, I'd suggest taking the Soulknife, and using the Soul Bolt archetype.

As soon as you hit second level, you get a blade skill. Use that to take the 'Emulate Ranged Weapon' skill, and turn your soul bolt into whatever ranged weapon you prefer.

Third level, and every four levels after, you gain psychic strike. 1d8 damage, and you must use a move action to charge it. The upside? It's NOT precision damage. As long as your enemy isn't mindless, it'll work on them. At ANY range.

You can use a lot of ranged feats and magical items with your soul bolt, you'll never run out of projectiles, either. Of course, while you can't hit a windfall of cash and crank up the power of your soul bolt, you'll never HAVE to pay money to boost it, it'll happen automatically as you level, and if you want a boost, just grab a crystaline bow focus.

Of course, this isn't counting things like deadly shot, psionic shot (extra dice of damage), fell shot (turn your ranged attack into a touch attack) etcetera.

Kalmageddon
2015-01-24, 05:32 AM
I think the problem is that one shot kill is incredibly powerful.

Well, I'm not looking for exactly that. When I talk about 1 shot 1 kill I'm talking about dealing as much damage as possibile with a single attack, instead of spamming as many attacks as possibile each round as it seems to be the case with almost every ranged build.

Rolero
2015-01-24, 10:49 AM
Here is my build sugestion with a gunslinger (bolt ace)

Race: Human

Traits: Second chance, Reactionary

10 20 14 10 14 7 (+2 DEX) >> 25 point buy

10 20 12 10 14 7 (+2 DEX) >> 20 point buy

10 18 13 10 14 7 (+2 DEX) >> 15 point buy

You only need a high Dex to be a very decent character. Should you roll your abilities, make this your priority and put all the ability increases to it.
If you don't want to be an antisocial, you can take your chances and reduce your Con, or even 1 point in Dex, should you feel you are good enough.

Progression

1 - Deeds (Sharp Shoot, Vigilant loading, Gunslinger's dodge), Grit, Gunsmith (Gunsmithing), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

2 - Nimble +1

3 - Deeds (Gunslinger Initiative, Pistol-Whip, Shooter's Resolve), Deadly Aim

4 - Rapid reload (Heavy Crossbow), +1 DEX

5 - Crossbow Training (Heavy Crossbow), Crossbow Mastery (Heavy Crossbow)

6 - Nimble +2

7 - Deeds (Dead Shot, Targeting, Distracting Shot), Rapid Shot

8 - Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow), +1 DEX

9 - Crossbow Training 2 (Hand Crossbow), Many Shot

10 - Nimble +3

11 - Deeds (Bleeding Wound, Vigilant Shooter, Inexplicable Reload), Signature Deed (Sharp Shoot)

12 - Clustered Shots, +1 DEX

13 - Crossbow Training 3 (Ligth Crossbow), Critical Focus

14 - Nimble +4

15 - Deeds (Evasive, Slinger's luck, Pinning Shot), Sickening Critical

16 - Impact Critical Shot, +1 DEX

17 - Crossbow Training (Double Crossbow), Improved Precise Shot

18 - Nimble +5

19 - Deeds (Cheat Death, Death's Shot, Stunning Shot), Iron Will

20 - True Grit (Bleeding Wound, Death’s Shot), Great Fortitude, +1 DEX

This character is focused around doing damage, lots of it. The build becomes operative by 5th level, and by 11th level is pretty much ready to lay waste to anything in front of it.
The drawback of this char is that he needs to be stationary to be effective, so you may want to try to snipe the enemy and/or be back to back with the group mage on the rearguard.

By later levels should you reach them, He has critical options avaliable which combined with his deeds tricks can do very nasty things. For instance, on a critical, appart from doing obscene amounts of damage, you will sicken, trip and bleed the opponent, with no save. Your capstone ability however is deathshot, reduced with True Grit, will make every critical a very high Fortitude save or die.

As an alternative, you can pass on the critical route and go for movility with Nature soul + Animal ally, which will grant you an animal companion you can ride to shot full round while you move.

For a mundane character, I think this is pretty solid, and can be played in any setting without the worries of gun technology. You will only feel a little behind your pals in terms of power in the first levels. If you start on mid levels or can manage to reach them, this may be a great choice to play as a crossbowman.

In terms of weapondry, I choose the Heavy Crossbow, but you can use anything you feel confortable with, but the exotic options will eat a feat, hurting the build progress. I personally think the Heavy Crossbow is more than enough. Nice damage, nice reach, and you are competent with it since the beggining. You can use a Light one until you get to Crossbow mastery.

For enchantments, my prefered choices are Seeking, Ghost touch, Cyclonic, Holy and Elemental burst. Seeking can be ditched once you can get Improved precise shot.
A Dueling Cestus is a nice addition too.

Platymus Pus
2015-01-24, 12:50 PM
Great Crossbow is a nice crossbow to be able to get.
But it's not pathfinder.

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-24, 02:13 PM
The drawback of this char is that he needs to be stationary to be effective, so you may want to try to snipe the enemy and/or be back to back with the group mage on the rearguard.
.
Maybe shoe-horn Shot on the Run (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shot-on-the-run-combat---final) into this build?

Note: it also requires Dodge and Mobility.... Hmmmmm...
>

Psyren
2015-01-24, 02:17 PM
You can full-attack with a ranged weapon while riding, so if you get a mount you can make this work. Maybe go for a small race on a medium wolf or riding dog, since most of the damage is coming from dex and precision anyway. This will allow you to ride indoors.

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-24, 04:53 PM
Inspired by Rolero (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18707136&postcount=40), I decided to "take a stab" at a Sniper build using straight Fighter.

Crossbow Sniper (Fighter-based)


Race: Human (+2 to one Stat; Bonus Feat; +1 Skill pt. per level)

Class: Fighter (Bonus Feat at 1st level and every even numbered level)

Traits:

Killer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/killer) (Combat) - Helps with damage at low levels
Highlander (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/highlander-hills-or-mountains) (Regional) - Stealth is a Class Skill (very important for a Sniper)

Stats:


Str/10 Dex/20 Con/14 Int/10 Wis/14 Cha/7 (+2 DEX for Human) >> 25 point buy

Str/10 Dex/20 Con/12 Int/10 Wis/14 Cha/7 (+2 DEX for Human) >> 20 point buy

Str/10 Dex/18 Con/13 Int/10 Wis/14 Cha/7 (+2 DEX for Human) >> 15 point buy

With a high Dex you should be a very decent sniper. If you roll your abilities, make Dex your priority, and put all ability increases towards it.

Progression


1 – Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)

2 – Deadly Aim; Bravery +1

3 – Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow = Move action); Armor Training (-1 check, +1 Dex bonus; full speed in Med armor)

4 – Rapid Shot; +1 DEX

5 – Crossbow Mastery; Weapon Training (Crossbows +1)

6 – Weapon Specialization (Heavy Crossbow); Bravery +2

7 – Manyshot; Armor Training (-2 check, +2 Dex bonus; full speed in Hvy armor)

8 – Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow), +1 DEX

9 – Far Shot; Weapon Training 2 (Crossbows +2; Close [for Bayonet, Cestus] +1)

10 – Critical Focus; Bravery +3

11 – Sickening Critical; Armor Training (-3 check, +3 Dex bonus)

12 – Clustered Shots, +1 DEX

13 – Staggering Critical; Weapon Training 3 (Crossbows +3, Close +2, Bows +1)

14 – Critical Mastery; Bravery +4

15 – Exhausting Critical; Armor Training (-4 check, +4 Dex bonus)

16 – Improved Precise Shot; +1 DEX

17 – Stunning Critical; Weapon Training 4 (Crossbows +4, Close +3, Bows +2, Blades [Light] +1)

18 – Dodge; Bravery +5

19 – Mobility; Armor Mastery (DR 5/— in armor or using shield)

20 – Shot on the Run; Weapon Mastery (Heavy Crossbow); +1 DEX

The last three Feats could be swapped out for something else if desired, especially if one uses Psyren's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18707960&postcount=43) idea of a small race using a mount, but then there wouldn't be the Bonus Feat at 1st level for being Human. I also haven't run any numbers to see exactly what the bonuses To Hit and Damage would be, or the adjustments to Criticals. Speaking of Criticals, this build would go good with a caster who was a De-buffer, to knock down the opponent's Fort saves.

Rolero
2015-01-24, 05:27 PM
The problem of using a fighter for this build is that the goodies the bolt ace grant are so superior that there is no competition. Gunslinger Crossbow training let you add your Dex to dmg, and not only that, it also improves your Crit multiplier and as said before, this stacks with Bracers of falcon aim, add improved critical to the mix and you get 17-20x4 Crit range. Just for this, makes it vastly superior, but the extra cheese is Sharp shoot, which once reduced with signature dead, allows you to always hit versus touch armor, meaning, you will almost always, hit all your shots.

Even so, It can be a decent choice if your campaign doesn't allow gunslingers. However, I think you picked up to many critical feats, and Exhausting Critical has Tiring Critical as prerrequiste (and you don't have it on your build) I would try to stick to two conditions, and save some feats.

Finally, better that shot on the run, get Nature soul and animal ally and enjoy the benefits of shooting while riding (full round vs 1 with shot on the run)

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-24, 06:45 PM
Even so, It can be a decent choice if your campaign doesn't allow gunslingers.

This is true here, we don't use Gunslingers in our campaign.


However, I think you picked up to many critical feats, and Exhausting Critical has Tiring Critical as prerrequiste (and you don't have it on your build) I would try to stick to two conditions, and save some feats.

Took another look at this, and came up with this for Levels 12-20:


12 – Dodge; +1 DEX

13 – Staggering Critical; Weapon Training 3 (Crossbows +3, Close +2, Bows +1)

14 – Critical Mastery; Bravery +4

15 – Xxxxxxxx; Armor Training (-4 check, +4 Dex bonus)

16 – Improved Precise Shot; +1 DEX

17 – Wind Stance; Weapon Training 4 (Crossbows +4, Close +3, Bows +2, Blades [Light] +1)

18 – Lightning Stance; Bravery +5

19 – Mobility; Armor Mastery (DR 5/— in armor or using shield)

20 – Spring Attack; Weapon Mastery (Heavy Crossbow); +1 DEX


The Lightning Stance/Spring Attack combo seems interesting, you move before and after attacking with Spring Attack and it qualifies you for Lightning Stance, which is 50% Concealment, if I read it correctly. Also need something to replace Exhausting Critical.

Psyren
2015-01-24, 06:52 PM
Bolt Ace is really a crossbowslinger though - it could feasibly squeak into games where gunslingers are banned, because that ban is usually based around a larger ban of firearms in general.

Lord of Shadows
2015-01-24, 06:56 PM
Bolt Ace is really a crossbowslinger though - it could feasibly squeak into games where gunslingers are banned, because that ban is usually based around a larger ban of firearms in general.

That is quite true from what I have been reading here. For a game that allows them, that seems to be the way to go.