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View Full Version : Adapting the Points of Light paradigm to a larger world



Yora
2015-01-18, 09:29 AM
I am really quite a big fan of the Points of Light approach to fantasy settings. The world is one huge wilderness with small clusters of (semi-)independent villages and towns who are quite capable of keeping their small islands of civilization protected, but rely on wandering adventurers or a few exceptional locals to deal with any particularly nasty threats that come from the wilds or to perform tasks that require going beyond the borders of these save havens.

It's a great concept, but if you are going with just this it seems to be really useful only for one shot dungeon crawls or maybe pure exploration hexcrawls. If that's what you want, it's perfect and no need to make things more complicated.
But I think this kind of environment could also make a great background for more story-heavy campaigns with certain diplomatic or political elements. Like something Celtic themed, or Vikings, Arabs, or pirates. But for that the Points of Light would have to be more than simply resupply stations where the heroes patch up their wounds, sell their loot and get new equipment. There would still have to be other towns and villages that are not simply closer to different ruins and dungeons, but also have connections of various nature. Some may be trading with each other or some might be enemies for whatever reasons. That way, the characters would have a lot more ways in which they could influence things. Make allies that can be called upon when their home village is in dangers, or enemies who might plot against their village.

Instead of a singular home base surrounded by infinite wilderness in all directions, I would like to make something more like a network of independent villages connected by small, lonely roads passing through miles of wilderness. What kind of elements would such a kind of setting need or make great use of? I imagine something like thieves guilds, wizard academies, and big hierarchical churches probably wouldn't really work there. But an association of traveling merchants who exchange informations about damages or unsafe roads and changes in the availability of certain goods might actually be a lot more interesting than it would be in a regular quaint kingdom.

Honest Tiefling
2015-01-18, 01:17 PM
Two alternatives could be that the factors that force the Points of Light paradigm happened quite recently. Rather then the ol' post great-empire that lived centuries ago, the great empire you were living in goes kaboom right then and there. It could also be localized, so there are organizations outside of the blast zone.

As for the big hierarchical churches? I'd say that some disaster or problem with monsters coming into your town as if it were a free buffet would be just the right type of problem to cause people to go to religion. It might not be the best organization, with several people vying for position, but the funds and manpower might be present if someone could whip it into shape. If you want to shake things up, I'd go with several different churches vying for power and claiming that the others are false. And actually have one be false.

I doubt a merchant organization would not be tempted to, well...Be situational merchants if you get my meaning. They'll need their own army to remain safe, and well, if you don't like a village you're passing by, why not dabble into raiding? The differences between a politician and a merchant and a raider were not always clear in historical times anyway. Independent mercenary bands would probably be cropping up as well. Perhaps instead of a wizardy guild sitting high in their ivory tower, they've taken a more hands on approach to acquiring funding and supplies.

Shadowsend
2015-01-18, 01:17 PM
Having bigger and smaller points of light was always part of that setting. The institutions you describe would still exist, but would be smaller and less able or inclined to respond to trouble, and less knowledgeable about what was going on outside their sphere of influence. They may or may not have agents in the world doing recruitment (probably would, but the recruiters would be quite selective) that weren't trusted by the people.

Also any settlement at the delta of a river would be larger because food would be more abundant (fishing + farming). Assuming a progression like modern times, there would be opportunities to meet all kinds of different people there, possibly from different continents. This town would be the best place to have the beginnings of a city with the institutions...but it may/may not be the capital (typically government wants to be a bit insulated from the sea to cut down on invasions, neither Rome nor Athens were seaports)

And I wouldn't describe the wilderness as "infinite" but "undefined"...Which would mean any maps the party sees or has should be quite incomplete and sketchy...So you would have to make 2 or more maps for places you think they're interested in.

Yora
2015-01-18, 01:49 PM
Two alternatives could be that the factors that force the Points of Light paradigm happened quite recently. Rather then the ol' post great-empire that lived centuries ago, the great empire you were living in goes kaboom right then and there. It could also be localized, so there are organizations outside of the blast zone.
Armies continuing to fight wars for kingdoms that no longer exist. There is no longer any point in defending certain borders, or retaking a city that has been completely burned out and taken over by undead, but they try to do it anyway. That could be fun.
I believe the rise of the catholic church as a political power after the fall of Rome was caused primarily by it being the only remaining institution with inter-regional structures. That's how you ended up with bishops becoming effectively feudal lords in southern Germany. Didn't mean they were all exactly unified and obedient to the pople.
These could make for very interesting post-apocalyptic settings. Maybe have more than a single church competing for influence over remaining towns.

For my Bronze Age setting, I have networks of druid who keep in contact with each other and exchange information about supernatual threats being released on the world. They are often not friends and barely allies with significant differences in oppinion and the local leaders they support, but they share the firm believe that there are dangers much bigger than local politics.

Beta Centauri
2015-01-18, 04:47 PM
I think it's important to understand the point of Points of Light. I don't claim to know exactly what that point is, but I feel that it's to allow major events to occur and major situations to be stumbled upon, without anyone having to wonder why no one had heard about it until then. The PCs get lost in the nearby woods and stumble across a wizard's tower that no one knew was five miles from the main community. A dragon has been terrorizing a nearby castle, but the PCs don't find this out until they crest the final rise on their journey to it. A war has been raging for decades just two valleys away, and no one around the PCs knew about it.

It gives the GM an excuse for putting any sort of adventure they want into the world, without it having to arise "suddenly" or to have been rumored about for years. Contrast our modern world: if a person doesn't know about even a fairly minor event on the other side of the world, it's because they just aren't interested, not because there was no way to know.

So, I think you could have the kind of game you're after, but I think you'd just want it on a smaller, closer scale. Instead of several countries being involved, or even several cities around a country, it would be more like a few relatively closely spaced cities, with realtively well maintained (but still treacherous) routes between them, and dark wilderness on the other side. Each city would also know of one or two other locations further out in the wilderness that even their trading partners have only heard vague rumors about. In this setting you could have very intricate and complicated goings on... and 25 miles away you could have people who have no idea those cities even exist.

Yukitsu
2015-01-18, 07:22 PM
A fairly classic element to this that can be fully integrated into a longer campaign would be a darkness creeping into the light. A group of probably morally ambiguous adventurers doing their supposed dirty work already shows that maybe the light can't sustain itself meaning the players have tremendous agency in deciding whether or not they think the idea of this civilization is even worth defending, or if they're just in it for themselves, or if they'll use their strength to extinguish the light and rule the darkness themselves. Put that into a backdrop of political intrigue, double crossers, the truly faithful, the overzealous defenders of the light and you have enough to create a fairly lengthy campaign.

I think that maybe avoiding making it a larger world, but a more intimate, detailed closed circle makes better use of the setting idea and better showcases the idea that you are essentially an island.

Knaight
2015-01-18, 07:42 PM
One thing that could work well is an inland sea, along the lines of the Mediterranean. There are a fair few great coastal cities, some islands in the inland sea that are entirely under control of some civilization or other (or contested by the civilizations and not the forces of the wild). Along the rivers that lead to the sea are other smaller civilizations, with the occasional smaller town, lots of villages, and most of the farmland that isn't on the islands of the inland sea. Away from these rivers you might get the occasional secluded monastery, but those parts of the world are wild and untamed. Then there's the ocean, a terrifying place wilder than anything, with great sea serpents, islands with all sorts of terrors, and a reputation for wonders beyond that ever seen in the sea or on the mainland.

Yora
2015-01-19, 07:05 AM
Yes, I have come to the same conclusion. When I made the very rough map for my setting, I put all the settled lands along the coast or major rivers. For a very long time in the early periods of human civilization, river travel was hugely important. Long distance travel was usually by ship. I think coasts and rivers make for an excelent frame for a network of towns and city states.

I think it's important to understand the point of Points of Light. I don't claim to know exactly what that point is, but I feel that it's to allow major events to occur and major situations to be stumbled upon, without anyone having to wonder why no one had heard about it until then. The PCs get lost in the nearby woods and stumble across a wizard's tower that no one knew was five miles from the main community. A dragon has been terrorizing a nearby castle, but the PCs don't find this out until they crest the final rise on their journey to it. A war has been raging for decades just two valleys away, and no one around the PCs knew about it.
I think whatever is going on in the world should indeed be local. Occasionally you might have a horde of barbarians, undead, or giant insects descend on the whole region, but usually "war" is with your direct neighbors. And when it comes to introducing new towns, I like to think "one step ahead". Not just doing a quick writeup of this town, but already making a few brief notes about the next two or three places that lie beyond it.
Say the PCs decide to move on and leave village A. From the village priest they learned that there is another village B down the old road, which is a fishing village, and once per week someone comes up the road with a cart to sell fish to the people of village A. When the PCs reach village B, I think it's useful to already have some ideas for village C and D. Village C is a logging camp up the river and the loggers regularly float their timber down the river. D is actually a town on the shore of a large lake, where the timber is used for shipbuilding.
This way the players can already learn about C and D before they ever decide to go there. Perhaps one day seeing the timber coming down the river. And when they are exploring the forest and see a large fire in the distance, they can think "hey, isn't that the direction where that logging camp is supposed to be?" I think this immensely helps making the world feel like an actual world and not something that is seemingly randomly generated as you move along.